Focused Feedback: Tank Updates for October 1st, 2019

[Haijinx]

3 hours ago, Vanden said:

Well, for what it's worth, according to the power percentages that Cipher posted, Stun is only taken by about 1/5th of Energy Melee characters. It's an obvious weak spot in the set, ripe for being the focus of a buff, and it seems like the vast majority of players wouldn't miss it if it were replaced by an AoE attack of some sort. The set could definitely use more AoE, on every AT, not just Stalkers. Food for thought.

Energy torrent comes to mind.  Or some variation.

 

[Sir Myshkin]

On 10/16/2019 at 7:58 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:

Some Melee Powersets will be looked at later after this is out of the way. 

The rage crash avoidance will actually be rolled back on next patch, the set will be looked at in more detail later, but not until another project is done: go through every single entity in the game and re-balance enemy damage resistances. 

Out of curiosity how much effort would be involved to put out a version of SS that has Rage as a 60/s duration, 240 base recharge, all crash removed, same buffs, and normalize Jab’s base damage to match the t1 majority. That’s it, just for us to test it. Let us mine out some data points so you guys can see what it’d look like and see what areas may need potential adjustment if SS takes that kind of direction.

 

It is the experimental server after all, and I strongly believe this needs to be tried as an approach to find the correctional path for SS. It’ll also allow a lot of players to see what SS would look like in this form being one of the most requested alterations (relatively lumped). I don’t think this is the ultimate fix, but we need the data to see what else needs bumped.

 

 

 

[Gobbledigook]

On 10/19/2019 at 1:42 AM, Sir Myshkin said:

Out of curiosity how much effort would be involved to put out a version of SS that has Rage as a 60/s duration, 240 base recharge, all crash removed, same buffs, and normalize Jab’s base damage to match the t1 majority. That’s it, just for us to test it. Let us mine out some data points so you guys can see what it’d look like and see what areas may need potential adjustment if SS takes that kind of direction.

 

It is the experimental server after all, and I strongly believe this needs to be tried as an approach to find the correctional path for SS. It’ll also allow a lot of players to see what SS would look like in this form being one of the most requested alterations (relatively lumped). I don’t think this is the ultimate fix, but we need the data to see what else needs bumped.

 

 

 

Seems like a good idea to me also.

 

But a cone attack in SS would be nice also. Either Hurl cone or Handclap as a cone/stun attack. But that would be another patch probably.

[MunkiLord]

4 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

Seems like a good idea to me also.

 

But a cone attack in SS would be nice also. Either Hurl cone or Handclap as a cone/stun attack. But that would be another patch probably.

I realize this may not be possible at all, but I would like hurl to be a narrow cone, but if it hits an enemy it can't knockdown it breaks up and does minor splash damage to the enemies around who it hits. If every enemy in the cone gets knocked down then it doesn't do any splash damage. 

[Infinitum]

Is there any ETA on when this would go live?  I'm like a kid waiting on Christmas for this. 

[Myrmidon]

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

Is there any ETA on when this would go live?  I'm like a kid waiting on Christmas for this. 

You and me both.

[Parabola]

19 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

But a cone attack in SS would be nice also. Either Hurl cone or Handclap as a cone/stun attack. But that would be another patch probably.

I wouldn't be keen on handclap getting changed into a damage cone. I know the standard 'we don't balance around IO's' applies but knockback to knockdown changes handclap into a great power. In combination with a FF+rech and a pair of damage procs I have used handclap every time it's recharged and I'm facing at least two enemies since i've been able to put the slots into it. The procs have a really good chance of activation and it gives me mitigation and a little damage during the rage crash.

 

Hurl however isn't a power I could ever see taking in it's current form and looks perfect for turning into a cone or adding some splash damage.

[siolfir]

2 hours ago, parabola said:

I wouldn't be keen on handclap getting changed into a damage cone. I know the standard 'we don't balance around IO's' applies but knockback to knockdown changes handclap into a great power Fault, only with a higher base recharge.

Fixed that for you. It's not an exact one-to-one because Fault needs a target, but it's the same size radial AoE with the same stun magnitude and duration... with a 30 second recharge instead of 20. It could use a buff without changing it to a damage power.

Edited October 21, 2019 by siolfir
removing strikethrough on space before F

[Parabola]

1 minute ago, siolfir said:

Fixed that for you. It's not an exact one-to-one because Fault needs a target, but it's the same size radial AoE with the same stun magnitude and duration... with a 30 second recharge instead of 20. It could use a buff without changing it to a damage power.

Sure it could be buffed but the point was really that it isn't a bad power that is in need of a complete redesign. If I was being really greedy I'd ask that it was given some token damage purely so it could slot the pbaoe damage procs.

[Gobbledigook]

6 hours ago, parabola said:

I wouldn't be keen on handclap getting changed into a damage cone. I know the standard 'we don't balance around IO's' applies but knockback to knockdown changes handclap into a great power. In combination with a FF+rech and a pair of damage procs I have used handclap every time it's recharged and I'm facing at least two enemies since i've been able to put the slots into it. The procs have a really good chance of activation and it gives me mitigation and a little damage during the rage crash.

 

Hurl however isn't a power I could ever see taking in it's current form and looks perfect for turning into a cone or adding some splash damage.

Remove the knockback from Handclap and just give it a Stun only. Footstomp i can understand knocking mobs off their feet but not Handclap. Should just be a disorient i reckon.

 

Yes Hurl is often overlooked in builds. It would be a good candidate for becoming a cone attack

Edited October 21, 2019 by Gobbledegook

[Parabola]

1 hour ago, Gobbledegook said:

Remove the knockback from Handclap and just give it a Stun only. Footstomp i can understand knocking mobs off their feet but not Handclap. Should just be a disorient i reckon.

 

Yes Hurl is often overlooked in builds. It would be a good candidate for becoming a cone attack

That would rob it of utility, particularly from a proc point of view. If it didn't take knockback sets you would miss out on the ff+rech and one of the two damage procs it can slot. I wouldn't bother taking it in that form. The need to slot a knockback to knockdown is a single slot tax to create a very useful power, a price I'm happy to pay.

[Gobbledigook]

44 minutes ago, parabola said:

That would rob it of utility, particularly from a proc point of view. If it didn't take knockback sets you would miss out on the ff+rech and one of the two damage procs it can slot. I wouldn't bother taking it in that form. The need to slot a knockback to knockdown is a single slot tax to create a very useful power, a price I'm happy to pay.

You can't please everyone lol.

 

Yes you would lose the recharge but you get that in footstomp etc. It would be a damage dealing Cone power. Lose a proc but gain damage.

 

Personally i think procs need a nerf lol.

 

Either way i just think the set needs a cone attack, somewhere in the set.

[Haijinx]

6 hours ago, siolfir said:

Fixed that for you. It's not an exact one-to-one because Fault needs a target, but it's the same size radial AoE with the same stun magnitude and duration... with a 30 second recharge instead of 20. It could use a buff without changing it to a damage power.

30 second recharge is potentially better than 20 if its an ability you dont use often.  Since the PPM chance goes up.

 

[chi1701]

Will PeaceBringers and WarShades have their Dwarf form flare aoe buffed in size and their damage output buffed to match those of tanks and brutes? (Peacebringers and Warshades are still classed as tanks)

[Sovera]

48 minutes ago, chi1701 said:

Will PeaceBringers and WarShades have their Dwarf form flare aoe buffed in size and their damage output buffed to match those of tanks and brutes? (Peacebringers and Warshades are still classed as tanks)

Tanker is a class, not a role.

[golstat2003]

4 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Tanker is a class, not a role.

Yeah I pretty much don't expect anything for Dwarf form for either Kheldian.

The Kheldian pass is probably later.

[chi1701]

57 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Tanker is a class, not a role.

Tank is a role defined by playstyle during character creation.

[Captain Powerhouse]

Kheldian pass will be way later and way different. A Kheldian does not have to have its tank form balanced around the idea that there is already a main tank in the team, because it is part of the AT design that they can shift roles on the fly.

 

There is not currently a path, but ideally, the tank form would be more effective at holding aggro and tanking, while multi-form building be a bit more easy to achieve.

[Sovera]

2 minutes ago, chi1701 said:

Tank is a role defined by playstyle during character creation.

Yeeeeeees, buuuuuuut, thiiiis iiiiiiiis fooooooor theeeeeeee claaaaaaaass caaaaaalled taaaaaaaankeeeeeeer.

[Captain Powerhouse]

5 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Yeeeeeees, buuuuuuut, thiiiis iiiiiiiis fooooooor theeeeeeee claaaaaaaass caaaaaalled taaaaaaaankeeeeeeer.

 

To be fair, although tankers are the main focus of the changes, there are many reasons why the thread is called "Tank Updates" and not "Tanker Updates", these changes, from the start, have touched two of the 3 tanking capable archetypes.

 

Alas: Kheldians will be looked at later, there is only so much testing that can be done at once and keep things somewhat focused. I could do 1000 changes tomorrow, but that would result in an incredibly chaotic feedback cycle.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Captain Powerhouse

[chi1701]

6 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Yeeeeeees, buuuuuuut, thiiiis iiiiiiiis fooooooor theeeeeeee claaaaaaaass caaaaaalled taaaaaaaankeeeeeeer.

And the Keldians are part of the class called tanker.

[Captain Powerhouse]

Just now, chi1701 said:

And the Keldians are part of the class called tanker.

 

Thaaaat is not true, but its an understandable confusion given one of the AT names.

 

Class = Archetype (the game internally calls it both in here and there.)

Tanker = AT/Class

Tank = Role

 

 

 

[golstat2003]

3 minutes ago, chi1701 said:

And the Keldians are part of the class called tanker.

They can play the tanking role as part of Dwarf form. But there are Kheldians who don't take dwarf form.

 

The Kheldians are more a hybrid class/AT.

Edited October 22, 2019 by golstat2003

[chi1701]

10 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

To be fair, although tankers are the main focus of the changes, there are many reasons why the thread is called "Tank Updates" and not "Tanker Updates", these changes, from the start, have touched two of the 3 tanking capable archetypes.

 

Alas: Kheldians will be looked at later, there is only so much testing that can be done at once and keep things somewhat focused. I could do 1000 changes tomorrow, but that would result in an incredibly chaotic feedback cycle.

This is what I have been wanting to hear, dont expect instant results, but its nice to know possible plans for future. Could it be possible however, to fix the cosmic balance description and have Sentinels added?

Edited October 22, 2019 by chi1701

[Haijinx]

One thing they need is a taunt aura in Dwarf form.