Focused Feedback: Tank Updates for October 1st, 2019

[skoryy]

32 minutes ago, csr said:

 

Willpower

Rise to the Challenge

1.25s mag 3 / 1s

1s mag 3 / 1s

1.25s mag 3 / 1s

Oh yeah, I'm reminded. Will there be a revisit on those mag 3s on tanks and brutes?

Edited October 24, 2019 by skoryy
trying not to sound like a jerk

[Haijinx]

I wonder if it would make more sense to normalize them.  For example -

 

Tanker good aura 17 sec

Tanker weak aura 10 sec 

 

Brute good aura 14 sec

Brute weak aura 9 sec

 

Kheldian Dwarf 7 sec 

 

Scrapper Good Aura 5 sec

Scrapper Weak Aura 2 sec 

 

 

 

[General Idiot]

27 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I wonder if it would make more sense to normalize them.  For example -

 

Tanker good aura 17 sec

Tanker weak aura 10 sec 

 

Brute good aura 14 sec

Brute weak aura 9 sec

 

Kheldian Dwarf 7 sec 

 

Scrapper Good Aura 5 sec

Scrapper Weak Aura 2 sec 

 

 

 

This, plus being universally mag 4 for tanks and brutes, 3.5 for kheldians and 3 for scrappers. One question though, what defines the difference between a good aura and a weak aura?

[Haijinx]

4 minutes ago, General Idiot said:

This, plus being universally mag 4 for tanks and brutes, 3.5 for kheldians and 3 for scrappers. One question though, what defines the difference between a good aura and a weak aura?

Well there are some sets that have weaker auras by design like WP and SR. 

 

So those are the ones I mean.

 

I am not sure why EA is 13.6 seconds and invincibility is 17 though for example.  Both of those sound strong to me in the current system.  

[ryuplaneswalker]

4 hours ago, Haijinx said:

I am not sure why EA is 13.6 seconds and invincibility is 17 though for example.  Both of those sound strong to me in the current system.  

I wouldn't try to figure out how taunt auras work, they don't seem to have a guiding star of design beyond "Scrapper damage ones don't taunt at all"

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, ryuplaneswalker said:

I wouldn't try to figure out how taunt auras work, they don't seem to have a guiding star of design beyond "Scrapper damage ones don't taunt at all"

Pretty much.  Its like they didn't really plan the taunt auras very well.  So they are all over the map. 

[Replacement]

I like having scrapper secondaries that do and don't have offensive/taunt auras.

 

I think at this point, one of the only remaining aesthetic strengths of scrapper is to have some stalker-esque builds and other brutish builds. To that end, I'm super happy to see them get /ninja for example.

 

I think new power sets not getting taunts on scrapper versions will help load-balance the different scrapper ideals.

 

Also: I'm good with giving Khelds new tricks. Maybe with some customization options. If I at least had 2-3 dwarves to choose from... (I'd choose Dopey)

[Cutter]

16 hours ago, Haijinx said:

I wonder if it would make more sense to normalize them.  For example -

 

Tanker good aura 17 sec

Tanker weak aura 10 sec 

 

Brute good aura 14 sec

Brute weak aura 9 sec

 

Kheldian Dwarf 7 sec 

 

Scrapper Good Aura 5 sec

Scrapper Weak Aura 2 sec 

 

 

 

I like this idea. At the very least, something should be done for Scrapper EA, Tanker SR, and everybody's WP.

 

EDIT: Per the Captain, Tanker/SR/Evasion is 13.6s, not 1s.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by Cutter
Added dev comment re Tanker/SR/Evasion

[csr]

5 hours ago, Cutter said:

I like this idea. At the very least, something should be done for Scrapper EA, Tanker SR, and everybody's WP.

 

EDIT: Per the Captain, Tanker/SR/Evasion is 13.6s, not 1s.

 

 

The data I used was from an archive.org snapshot taken Dec 22, 2016.  The internal update date given in the database is Sept 5, 2012 however.  Unfortunately, even with Mids, Detailed Info and CoD we don't have complete or definitive data on some things.

 

Personally, the only issues I saw on that chart were:

• RttC is Mag 3 instead of Mag 4 for Tankers and Brutes.  This is inconsistent with everything else.  Which is fine, it just stands out.
• Entropic Aura (Brutes/Scrappers), Integration (Brutes) and Evasion (Brutes) tick every 2s while all the other non-damage auras tick at 0.5s or 1s.  Tankers' Evasion says 0.5s in CoD, but that may have been changed when the duration was.  I like variety and choices, but since some of this info isn't readily available to, or understandable by, players, I don't think you can call it a choice.  It's just a nasty surprise that when you run a loop through a spawn using one of the 2s tick auras you are bound to miss some.  Of course, that happens with damage taunt auras too.  So... 🤷‍♂️

Edited October 24, 2019 by csr

[Myrmidon]

38 minutes ago, csr said:

RttC is Mag 3 instead of Mag 4 for Tankers and Brutes.  This is inconsistent with everything else.  Which is fine, it just stands out.

While I would like a Mag 4 increase at the very least, the longer it stays this way, the more questions I have to answer about how to Tank with it, no biggie.😁

Edited October 24, 2019 by Myrmidon

[Galaxy Brain]

*Sees talk of enemy resistances and the melee sets*

 

Uhhhh.... wasn't me! 😛 

[drbuzzard]

Not sure if I missed it, but do we have any idea when this goes live?

[Myrmidon]

4 minutes ago, drbuzzard said:

Not sure if I missed it, but do we have any idea when this goes live?

There is another patch coming at some point with a few adjustments, although, there is no ETA on that so far.

[Captain Powerhouse]

There will be at least two more patches. Before any patch actually going live, there should be a "live candidate" with a consolidated list of patch notes. The next patch is not it.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Captain Powerhouse

[Myrmidon]

5 hours ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

There will be at least two more patches. Before any patch actually going live, there should be a "live candidate" with a consolidated list of patch notes. The next patch is not it.

Taking the date of this thread and adding in two patches at roughly the same pace, I estimate 6-8 weeks. 
 

 

(This is one estimate that I would love to be proven wrong in, by the way 😂).

[Riverdusk]

On 10/23/2019 at 8:06 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:

I don’t have any plans to change any existing scrapper auras, but that goes both ways: none will get more taunting, and any new armor won’t get taunt in the scrapper auras.

Sorry to see this attitude as I'm of the belief all scrapper armor sets should have a taunt aura, even if they are all reduced somehow to a super weak form of one (as long as it is enough to severely cut down on the ridiculous running away that mobs seem to like to do.)

 

Chasing after mobs constantly as a melee is the opposite of fun, it is aggravating.  I've found a LOT less of that aggravation when I play a scrapper with a taunt aura.   I don't play to be aggravated so I already tend to avoid any scrapper armorset without a taunt aura, simple as that. 

[Riverdusk]

On 10/23/2019 at 11:20 AM, csr said:

It was just intended as information.  Though it does in fact prove something; that a significant number of Scrappers have taunt auras - it's not just a few.

 

IMO, Captain Powerhouse's comment about Scrappers not being meant to hold aggro of multiple foes is as dated as the idea that Tankers shouldn't be damage dealers.  I think Going Rogue and either-side Stalkers pretty much bumped Scrappers out of that mold for good.

Not even outdated, to me it makes no sense.  Considering any AT can "hold aggro of multiple foes" with a simple pool power "provoke".  Also as an aside, it always annoyed me that a pool taunt power is better than the scrapper version which is limited to single target.  Any time I do actually consider taking a scrapper armor set without a taunt I consider taking provoke, and yet never confront. 

 

I actually always had the wish that all the scrapper "confront" powers would some day be made aoe to actually be worth taking, and that way be made at least a bit more worthwhile to take than a simple tier 1 pool power.  Guess that hope is shot.

 

Regardless though, my first and biggest annoyance remains the running away untaunted mobs tend to do, holding aggro isn't usually even the first concern when I'm on a scrapper, but having a taunt is the easiest fix for runners....unless and until they want to give scrappers some better AoE immobilize in the epic power pools, that'd also work.  😀  T Tentacles is quite an investment and annoying to use as a cone.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Riverdusk
Remembered tentacles

[HellKnightX]

I personally think we could help offset the identity crisis that Tanks have by increasing their aggro limit from 17 to something like 24-30. I know it's possible, since the aggro limit was only introduced in i1, and it can be bypassed by ambushes. Right now, these Tanker changes are great, but they will only help Tankers hit the aggro limit faster, which is and always has felt very restrictive, especially because you will often find your group surrounded by more than 17 enemies in higher-end content.

Edited October 29, 2019 by HellKnightX

[golstat2003]

1 minute ago, HellKnightX said:

I personally think we could help offset the identity crisis that Tanks have by increasing their aggro limit from 17 to something like 24-30. I know it's possible, since the aggro limit was only introduced in i1, and it can be bypassed by ambushes. Right now, these Tanker changes are great, but they will only help Tankers hit the aggro limit faster, which is and always has felt very restrictive, especially because you will often find your group surrounded by more than 17 enemies in higher-end content.

I thought it's been already been posted more than once that that's impossible.

[DreadShinobi]

4 minutes ago, HellKnightX said:

I personally think we could help offset the identity crisis that Tanks have by increasing their aggro limit from 17 to something like 24-30. I know it's possible, since the aggro limit was only introduced in i1, and it can be bypassed by ambushes. Right now, these Tanker changes are great, but they will only help Tankers hit the aggro limit faster, which is and always has felt very restrictive, especially because you will often find your group surrounded by more than 17 enemies in higher-end content.

 

2 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

I thought it's been already been posted more than once that that's impossible.

Correct, the aggro cap is not tied to the character/archetype, it is tied to the enemy groups

[Captain Powerhouse]

Even if it was possible, all it would do is make a second tank at even more meaningless in any team. If the goal of a team is just to rush rooms full of multiple spawns, that team should bring at least a secondary tank at, be it a brute, tanker or kheldian. Alternatively, some crowd control or enough buffing for free range aggro to not be an issue, since this game tends to be flexible like that.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Captain Powerhouse

[Infinitum]

46 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Even if it was possible, all it would do is make a second tank at even more meaningless in any team. If the goal of a team is just to rush rooms full of multiple spawns, that team should bring at least a secondary tank at, be it a brute, tanker or kheldian. Alternatively, some crowd control or enough buffing for free range aggro to not be an issue, since this game tends to be flexible like that.

Yeah, agreed, we normally run with multiple tanks or brutes or a combination for that reason.  And believe it or not stuff still gets through. 

 

That's when the troller types better lock them down or the blaster types destroy them.

[nicoliy]

How’s the next patch looking? Any preview of what’s to come? Love the iterative approach to try things out. Can’t wait to see what this all means on a Kheldian later down the line too (tank and WS are my mains).

[gr8_2018]

Sorry if I missed this, but has there been any talk of lowering brute resistance caps to the 85% mark or somewhere thereabouts? To me this is one of the biggest changes that would make tanks the actual preferred tanking class on teams.

[golstat2003]

21 minutes ago, gr8_2018 said:

Sorry if I missed this, but has there been any talk of lowering brute resistance caps to the 85% mark or somewhere thereabouts? To me this is one of the biggest changes that would make tanks the actual preferred tanking class on teams.

No one took this seriously when it was first suggested I don’t think. Tanks are already the premiere tanking class selected by teams. From what I’ve read that change is nowhere near in the table, and rightfully so.