Have the talks with NCsoft slowed down content progression?

[ShardWarrior]

Perhaps there is no new stuff (yet) because they're a small volunteer team doing this part time for free?

 

If you want stuff faster, learn programming and have at it.  I'm sure they would welcome the help.

[MetaVileTerror]

See, that's the thing . . . I'm -not- sure they'd welcome the help.  From what I'm seeing, the Homecoming Team is being pretty choosy.

I'm not saying that being choosy is inherently a bad thing, mind you.  It's just . . . 

I dunno.  Something feels "off" to me, and I can't quite put my finger on it.  Stuff that TonyV posted when he separated himself from the ncsoft talks.  Reports/rumours from people claiming to have interactions with certain, key figures.

I'm probably just being paranoid.  If I had more information; a more open line of communication, I think I'd rest easier and stop banging my head against this particular brick wall.

[ShardWarrior]

Essentially what I was getting at was something about not looking a gift horse in the mouth.  😉

[Abraxus]

It's hard not to have doubt when news about something we'd very much like to see finally resolved, is far, and few between.  There is no easy answer, but I think all any of us can do is play, enjoy playing, look forward to the next cool update, and somewhere down the line we'll hear something.  It will happen when it can, and due to a lot of complicated legal issues, not a moment before that.  So, I try not to focus on the destination, but rather to enjoy the journey.  The rest will surely take care of itself, and no amount of asking, wishing, anticipation, or anxiety will make it happen any sooner.

 

So, relax and enjoy!

[DougGraves]

1 hour ago, Abraxus said:

There is no easy answer, but I think all any of us can do is play, enjoy playing, look forward to the next cool update, and somewhere down the line we'll hear something. 

 

What we need is an IO set bonus with +Dev

[molten_dragon]

I think the size of homecoming necessitates a slower pace of development.  Changes here affect far more people than changes to Thunderspy/Rebirth/We Have Cake do.  They should be made more deliberately and with greater care.

 

Of course that doesn't mean I don't want to see cool new stuff, I just want to see it in a complete and well-tested state.

[boggo2300]

21 hours ago, Mnemnosyne said:

I suspect the numbers have an even simpler answer: Homecoming was (and still is, I believe) the easiest server to find, once you hear that CoH/CoV is back. Most of the places I've heard about it wind up linking/instructing people how to get on Homecoming. Therefore, HC became the most popular server early on. Having reached this level of population, it would be extremely difficult to get a significant number of people to switch to one of the far less populated servers, so it's self-maintaining at this point; the HC team would have to colossally screw up in order for one of the other servers to reach the tipping point. It wouldn't be enough for one of the others to be slightly better (which I don't think they are at this point) it would have to be massively better by an absolutely huge margin.

I know several people who came to homecoming FROM the other servers (primarily toXic  er COXG) so at least in some cases your proposition isn't the case (It may be why the overwhelming number are here, first movers always benefit, and the fact Homecoming were smart enough to take Leo's 6 years of work and use that as the foundation puts them miles ahead in both stability and understanding the underlying structure of the game,  which frankly rampant changes like the others are making isn't only inviting disaster, it's giving it a robe, a glass of brandy, and asking it to put it's feet up!)

[boggo2300]

9 hours ago, Abraxus said:

It's hard not to have doubt when news about something we'd very much like to see finally resolved, is far, and few between.  There is no easy answer, but I think all any of us can do is play, enjoy playing, look forward to the next cool update, and somewhere down the line we'll hear something.  It will happen when it can, and due to a lot of complicated legal issues, not a moment before that.  So, I try not to focus on the destination, but rather to enjoy the journey.  The rest will surely take care of itself, and no amount of asking, wishing, anticipation, or anxiety will make it happen any sooner.

 

So, relax and enjoy!

Not meaning to be contrary Abraxus but I actually think we are getting info of greater detail and way more often than I'd expect, certainly much faster and freer than any deals of a similar sort I've been involved in.

 

Again if you aren't comfortable with the info they are sharing there's noone holding a gun to your head to stay, but for me, they are telling us everything they can (possibly even too much, but I'm assuming their lawyer is clearing what they do say)

 

The only thing that kinda blindsided me was Tony V, and I actually think I know why that happened, not thrilled about it, but I don't think it was HC's idea

[Sailboat]

Not sure I really want new stuff.

[MetaVileTerror]

The good news, then, is that I am quite certain that the Homecoming Team have definitely made their stance clear on the commitment to NOT remove any existing content.  That much, I think, we're safe on.

[Abraxus]

2 hours ago, boggo2300 said:

Not meaning to be contrary Abraxus but I actually think we are getting info of greater detail and way more often than I'd expect, certainly much faster and freer than any deals of a similar sort I've been involved in.

 

Again if you aren't comfortable with the info they are sharing there's noone holding a gun to your head to stay, but for me, they are telling us everything they can (possibly even too much, but I'm assuming their lawyer is clearing what they do say)

 

The only thing that kinda blindsided me was Tony V, and I actually think I know why that happened, not thrilled about it, but I don't think it was HC's idea

I believe the gist of my post was positive, and much in line with what you said.  I had NO complaints about the frequency of the information given, or the content.  So, I don't know where this is coming from, but I think you greatly misinterpreted my post.

[boggo2300]

6 hours ago, Abraxus said:

I believe the gist of my post was positive, and much in line with what you said.  I had NO complaints about the frequency of the information given, or the content.  So, I don't know where this is coming from, but I think you greatly misinterpreted my post.

Sorry about that, I just tagged onto your message as you were the final poster in that sub thread, and I figured least likely to be upset by what I said, I was actually targeting my comments to everyone above you, sorry about that

Edited November 4, 2019 by boggo2300

[Sylar]

A couple of facts for those out of the loop and spreading misinformation when it comes to the other servers, while i exclusively play on CoXG only, i tend to check out the other servers from time to time and i feel this post is a bit of a bait post in order for people to argue amongst themselves who is the superior server, with that being said let me explain a few things to those who chose to downplay the other servers, most notably CoXG in a fair statement.

 

1. CoXG has made VAST improvements to their server, adding an insane amount of content in the last 6 months, from new powersets to new costumes to open world pvp, the latter being on the test server and due to be released soon, not to mention multiple auras on every body part, and yes Bubblewrap came up with that first.

 

2. "The Talks" that keep getting dropped in mid conversations are something we cannot keep using as an excuse, why? well we don't know much about what is being said and what is not being said, but put it this way, HC are not the only people in talks with NCSoft, it is unfair to have one server have rule over everything, having multiple servers is a good thing and has variety and choice over how you want to play, and who you want to play with, with what you want to play with, also "The Talks" have been going on for more than 6 years, people have tried and failed to get the IP, NCSoft is not willing to part ways with it.

 

3. Leo has had the code for more than 6 years, up until someone leaked it, it is extremely wrong to assume he was going to give out the code to anyone before this, the code was hoarded away and he claimed it for himself, that is fact, this is not a hate comment, i am just saying how it is right now.

 

4. Free speech does not exist here, i have seen many times where my comments have been deleted, criticism gets deleted or any kind of fair comment gets removed, this is totalitarianism in its infancy.

 

5. Posts get downvoted on reddit, i have seen it too many times, anything non HC gets downvoted immediately, its getting childish, especially clear and concise reviews of other servers, its like some people act like HC is the only server out there, it isnt and never will be, HC is just one of many servers out there, publicly and privately.

 

6. HC only became the most well known server because well Leo had the code, if he had given out as he claims he would have then everyone would have set their server up and had a legitimate chance of gaining a decent playerbase, but the bad mouthing of other servers that are not HC led to other servers being exiled and hated which is completely unfair and most of the information spread about them is wholy untrue and unwarranted.

 

7. " I remain a member of their Discord group, just to keep an ear to the ground about what goes on over there " Thats pretty petty, what are they doing plotting a take over or the downfall of HC? lol no they just want to focus on making good content, its comments like this that show how toxic some people are in this server, i feel like HC is the obligatory hate-every-other-server server, childish comments like this are unnecessary.

 

8. The Sentinel AT is not new, it has been a private server for around 6 years, it may be new to people who were not apart of that server but it is not new content in general just fyi.

 

While i have stated i am exclusively a CoXG player, i do go on other servers from time to time to have fun play in teams and roll a new toon every now and then, but certain things confuse me and concern me, like for example the changes made to this server are non negotiable, why? if you do not own the IP then how is it you can make changes like the no-copyright characters rule? how can you expect people to accept your EULA style agreement when you go on the server? all these legal looking legalities and yet you do not own the IP, it is just baffling.

 

I want the best for all servers to succeed and bring in their version of content, to give players choice of what to play and how to play it, everyone has their idea of what the game should look like and what should be added and i think that is great, i am all for choice and better content, we should all be congratulating each other and helping each other achieve their goals, not putting each other down or making false claims, at the end of the day what matters most is that we have the game back (for now) and we should be banding together regardless of what any of us believes or want for the game so that we can keep this game up, we can operate on different servers but still have the goal of keeping the servers alive

 

If this was Leo's goal then why hasn't any other server been given that same opportunity or a place at the table in the talks with NCSoft?

 

I will reiterate that this by no means an attack but only to provide clarity to  the misinformation that has been spread and to question the path that this server is undertaking.

[Jimmy]

21 minutes ago, Sylar said:

HC are not the only people in talks with NCSoft

I've not seen anyone else discuss ongoing talks with NCSoft.

21 minutes ago, Sylar said:

"The Talks" have been going on for more than 6 years

Ours have not. We've been engaged in discussions with them since April of this year.

21 minutes ago, Sylar said:

4. Free speech does not exist here, i have seen many times where my comments have been deleted, criticism gets deleted or any kind of fair comment gets removed, this is totalitarianism in its infancy.

This is also false. Posts that break the Code of Conduct are actioned. Feedback and criticism is not. The very fact your post is being left up - despite the many, many inaccuracies - is proof of that.

21 minutes ago, Sylar said:

like for example the changes made to this server are non negotiable, why? if you do not own the IP then how is it you can make changes like the no-copyright characters rule? how can you expect people to accept your EULA style agreement when you go on the server? all these legal looking legalities and yet you do not own the IP, it is just baffling.

Not sure what you mean by this. We're incredibly open to feedback, especially about balance updates. Serious changes spend months on the test server. As for the legal stuff, we've explained every step of the way what's happening and why it's happening.

21 minutes ago, Sylar said:

why hasn't any other server been given that same opportunity or a place at the table in the talks with NCSoft?

We are working with other servers.

 

I've not go time to pick through your entire post, but please don't claim you are here to halt the spread of misinformation whilst also spreading your own.

[Sidious]

16 minutes ago, Sylar said:

While i have stated i am exclusively a CoXG player, i do go on other servers from time to time to have fun play in teams and roll a new toon every now and then, but certain things confuse me and concern me, like for example the changes made to this server are non negotiable, why? if you do not own the IP then how is it you can make changes like the no-copyright characters rule? how can you expect people to accept your EULA style agreement when you go on the server? all these legal looking legalities and yet you do not own the IP, it is just baffling.

 

I want the best for all servers to succeed and bring in their version of content, to give players choice of what to play and how to play it, everyone has their idea of what the game should look like and what should be added and i think that is great, i am all for choice and better content, we should all be congratulating each other and helping each other achieve their goals, not putting each other down or making false claims, at the end of the day what matters most is that we have the game back (for now) and we should be banding together regardless of what any of us believes or want for the game so that we can keep this game up, we can operate on different servers but still have the goal of keeping the servers alive

 

If this was Leo's goal then why hasn't any other server been given that same opportunity or a place at the table in the talks with NCSoft?

 

I will reiterate that this by no means an attack but only to provide clarity to  the misinformation that has been spread and to question the path that this server is undertaking.

Agreed. HC is not the end all be all of the private servers. If people are doing new and interesting things with the game then we should know about it and celebrate it. NOT downplay it or immediately hate it.

 

Is Leandro involved in HC, yes.

After the campaign to keep the game secret and only bringing it out after someone else outed the game first, do I trust him? NO. (sorry but that still burns and he has a long way to go before getting back a large portion of the community's trust)

 

Blind loyalty to a server group is not to be commended nor encouraged, because tomorrow it may all go away again.

 

Why the server groups can't all get together and share content is beyond me. Probably goes into the whole "Human Nature" thing. Imagine what we could have if we just got beyond that?

[Sylar]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

I've not seen anyone else discuss ongoing talks with NCSoft.

Ours have not. We've been engaged in discussions with them since April of this year.

This is also false. Posts that break the Code of Conduct are actioned. Feedback and criticism is not. The very fact your post is being left up - despite the many, many inaccuracies - is proof of that.

Not sure what you mean by this. We're incredibly open to feedback, especially about balance updates. Serious changes spent months on the test server. As for the legal stuff, we've explained every step of the way what's happening and why it's happening.

We are working with other servers.

 

I've not go time to pick through your entire post, but please don't claim you are here to halt the spread of misinformation whilst also spreading your own.

You don't have time to sit through my post and answer everything but yet say that i am spreading misinformation?

 

1. I made comments on the tanker changes, i was "accidentally" banned for around 5 minutes before being allowed back in to the conversation.

 

2. I have been insulted on numerous times when speaking up about the toxicity of this server.

 

3. what i mean by the EULA style agreement is that you can halt people making any kind of copyrighted character but do not own the rights, so really legally you can't make those changes, especially since HC does not own the COH IP.

 

4. "your" talks "their" talks , it doesn't matter, wait, you guys are working with the Titan Network in these talks right? they are the ones who attempted the talks many years ago and failed, why is this any different?

 

 

[Sylar]

5 minutes ago, Sidious said:

Agreed. HC is not the end all be all of the private servers. If people are doing new and interesting things with the game then we should know about it and celebrate it. NOT downplay it or immediately hate it.

 

Is Leandro involved in HC, yes.

After the campaign to keep the game secret and only bringing it out after someone else outed the game first, do I trust him? NO. (sorry but that still burns and he has a long way to go before getting back a large portion of the community's trust)

 

Blind loyalty to a server group is not to be commended nor encouraged, because tomorrow it may all go away again.

 

Why the server groups can't all get together and share content is beyond me. Probably goes into the whole "Human Nature" thing. Imagine what we could have if we just got beyond that?

My point exactly, thank you fortaking the time and reading through my post with sincere criticism, honestly my post will no doubt get some heat off people which is not my intention, but rather to give the other side a chance and a voice.

[jubakumbi]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

I've not seen anyone else discuss ongoing talks with NCSoft.

Ours have not. We've been engaged in discussions with them since April of this year.

This is also false. Posts that break the Code of Conduct are actioned. Feedback and criticism is not. The very fact your post is being left up - despite the many, many inaccuracies - is proof of that.

I've not go time to pick through your entire post, but please don't claim you are here to halt the spread of misinformation whilst also spreading your own.

This rings very, very hollow.

Sounds like an angry gamer, not PR.

If something is not accurate, then make it accurate, don't just toss a passive-agressive pile of BS at it.

 

We have never been given anything of real value to in anyway think the 'talks' with HC and NCSoft are anything more than hype.

From my PoV, the HC team might, possibly, actually be moving forward with NCSoft...and from my PoV if they are, the actions taken make me think they want to 'own' CoH.

 

And, even if I give the HC Team the benefit of the doubt, the HC community does not get that luxury.

I have seen the HC community, at every website and many topics, lay into anything non HC as if it's the Devil incarnate in a suit made of puppy and kitten fur.

The fear within the HC community that there might be fewer teams due to low population, the changing of powersets, whatever it has been, the HC community has been terribly aggressive toward anything non HC - the same vitriol that gets thrown at NCSoft.

The same happens to the lineage of the HC code, I know, it's almost as childish, but if you look hard at the history, it's much more justified.

 

At this point, with the data at hand, HC is a hype machine trying to become Paragon Studios reborn and take over rulership (as opposed to leadership).

I don't think the HC team even wants to really innovate at the leve many players would love, they are more tuned onto the 'traditional' players - you know the ones that don't want anything in the world to ever change.

The entire attitude from the HC team has been one of a parent trying to scold a wayward child IME, while the HC community just falls over itself to comply so thier characters won't get wiped and yells at other servers like they are the problem.

 

This whole thing is just hillarious, because it is nothing new, at all, if you have watched rogue server drama from other games.

None of this is really new, it's just angry gamers going around in the same old love-hate circles...

 

For me, the pain is that I really love this game and IMO, the people trying to control it might just kill it, because they cannot help themsleves.

[ZacKing]

I've had a couple of my posts disappear too, even spoken via PM to a couple of other posters about it since theirs seemed to go missing too.  Nothing that I saw was breaking any rules either but it's their call on that.  I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just saying that it does happen.  it's their servers so they can do whatever they want.

2 hours ago, Sidious said:

Agreed. HC is not the end all be all of the private servers. If people are doing new and interesting things with the game then we should know about it and celebrate it. NOT downplay it or immediately hate it.

good advice.

[Starforge]

2 hours ago, Sylar said:

3. Leo has had the code for more than 6 years, up until someone leaked it, it is extremely wrong to assume he was going to give out the code to anyone before this, the code was hoarded away and he claimed it for himself, that is fact, this is not a hate comment, i am just saying how it is right now.

I still love this (false and exaggerated) talking point keeps getting brought up by people with no first hand knowledge of the situation and hear everything about it from someone else that also had no first hand knowledge.

[jubakumbi]

1 minute ago, ZacKing said:

it's their servers so they can do whatever they want.

This is the real crux, isn't it?

I totally agree a server runner group should maintain full control of what they build and run, they own it.

The way this is done IMO is no different in it's impact than the way games stores can have over games occuring within the store.

Either the venue owner allows people freedoms or not.

The moment the actions of the venue owners reflect thier own bias against 'certain types of players or outlooks' in the way rules get implemented/enforced is often the moment I leave the store and never return.

This is bascially what happend when NCSoft pulled the plug years ago, a whole bunch of us left that store, never to return.

 

I am a person that forgives as well.

If NCSoft plays ball in a reasonable way, then I will be willing to shop at that store again, even though I know some players will not.

 

The problem I see is that the group that now holds the most leverage through sheer player numbers seems no more experienced or capable than the previous game store owners.

Since there is a corporation involved, the chances of the product being 'given to the masses' remains slim, IMO.

Therefore, the only recourse I see, as a person that cares about the game, is to deeply interrogate the new store owners and expect them to respond as business owners and impartial leaders, not 'angry gamers'.

 

So, when any server runner continues the 'legacy of the secret server' that many dispute - that the server runners will simply emlininate any words or players that they do not condone - those servers runners become suspect...

Perception is reality.

 

It does not matter if the new store owners don't like the fact we are going to have uncomfortable questions.

[Fan Mail]

Just another opinion but I think the new content pace is fine given the situation.

 

/no complaints  

[Shred Monkey]

My feelings on this subject are this.   I am really apprehensive about any new content.  I want to play the old game that I lost.  Granted, six months from now when I've been running old content for much longer than now time I may feel different, but I think the dev's need to be very careful about making changes and additions.  We're not here because we love the new dev's idea of how the game should have been run.  We're here because we missed the way it was.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I think fixing things that are obviously broken are wonderful.  But what happens the first time this dev team decides it's time for a nerf.  I mean, for example, Titan Weapons and Bio Armor are probably due for a change... but does the public really feel comfortable with the dev team tweaking those sets?  Would people go somewhere else to play sets in an un-nerfed form?  This is where things get sticky.  I think a conservative approach is best.

 

 

 

[Myrmidon]

4 hours ago, Sylar said:

A couple of facts for those out of the loop and spreading misinformation when it comes to the other servers, while i exclusively play on CoXG only, i tend to check out the other servers from time to time and i feel this post is a bit of a bait post in order for people to argue amongst themselves who is the superior server, with that being said let me explain a few things to those who chose to downplay the other servers, most notably CoXG in a fair statement.

 

1. CoXG has made VAST improvements to their server, adding an insane amount of content in the last 6 months, from new powersets to new costumes to open world pvp, the latter being on the test server and due to be released soon, not to mention multiple auras on every body part, and yes Bubblewrap came up with that first.

 

2. "The Talks" that keep getting dropped in mid conversations are something we cannot keep using as an excuse, why? well we don't know much about what is being said and what is not being said, but put it this way, HC are not the only people in talks with NCSoft, it is unfair to have one server have rule over everything, having multiple servers is a good thing and has variety and choice over how you want to play, and who you want to play with, with what you want to play with, also "The Talks" have been going on for more than 6 years, people have tried and failed to get the IP, NCSoft is not willing to part ways with it.

 

3. Leo has had the code for more than 6 years, up until someone leaked it, it is extremely wrong to assume he was going to give out the code to anyone before this, the code was hoarded away and he claimed it for himself, that is fact, this is not a hate comment, i am just saying how it is right now.

 

4. Free speech does not exist here, i have seen many times where my comments have been deleted, criticism gets deleted or any kind of fair comment gets removed, this is totalitarianism in its infancy.

 

5. Posts get downvoted on reddit, i have seen it too many times, anything non HC gets downvoted immediately, its getting childish, especially clear and concise reviews of other servers, its like some people act like HC is the only server out there, it isnt and never will be, HC is just one of many servers out there, publicly and privately.

 

6. HC only became the most well known server because well Leo had the code, if he had given out as he claims he would have then everyone would have set their server up and had a legitimate chance of gaining a decent playerbase, but the bad mouthing of other servers that are not HC led to other servers being exiled and hated which is completely unfair and most of the information spread about them is wholy untrue and unwarranted.

 

7. " I remain a member of their Discord group, just to keep an ear to the ground about what goes on over there " Thats pretty petty, what are they doing plotting a take over or the downfall of HC? lol no they just want to focus on making good content, its comments like this that show how toxic some people are in this server, i feel like HC is the obligatory hate-every-other-server server, childish comments like this are unnecessary.

 

8. The Sentinel AT is not new, it has been a private server for around 6 years, it may be new to people who were not apart of that server but it is not new content in general just fyi.

 

While i have stated i am exclusively a CoXG player, i do go on other servers from time to time to have fun play in teams and roll a new toon every now and then, but certain things confuse me and concern me, like for example the changes made to this server are non negotiable, why? if you do not own the IP then how is it you can make changes like the no-copyright characters rule? how can you expect people to accept your EULA style agreement when you go on the server? all these legal looking legalities and yet you do not own the IP, it is just baffling.

 

I want the best for all servers to succeed and bring in their version of content, to give players choice of what to play and how to play it, everyone has their idea of what the game should look like and what should be added and i think that is great, i am all for choice and better content, we should all be congratulating each other and helping each other achieve their goals, not putting each other down or making false claims, at the end of the day what matters most is that we have the game back (for now) and we should be banding together regardless of what any of us believes or want for the game so that we can keep this game up, we can operate on different servers but still have the goal of keeping the servers alive

 

If this was Leo's goal then why hasn't any other server been given that same opportunity or a place at the table in the talks with NCSoft?

 

I will reiterate that this by no means an attack but only to provide clarity to  the misinformation that has been spread and to question the path that this server is undertaking.

Ah, yes. That is usually the first. Let me see if I remember it correctly. While the English attack from without, the wicked Leandro undermines from within, forging a secret alliance with Buckingham and placing himself on the throne. 

 

But really, Sylar, why stop there. We have heard much more festive variations. He makes oaths with pagan gods, seduces the queen in her own chamber, teach pigs to dance and horses to fly, and keeps the moon carefully hidden within the folds of his robe. 

 

Have I forgotten anything?

Edited November 4, 2019 by Myrmidon
Autocorrect always getting in the way...

[Jimmy]

Had to rush off to a meeting before. Got a bit more time now...

2 hours ago, Sylar said:

You don't have time to sit through my post and answer everything but yet say that i am spreading misinformation?

I did specifically call out things that were factual inaccuracies, from my perspective at least. Most of the other points are opinions, and I'm not going to debate opinions because we obviously disagree 🙂

2 hours ago, Sylar said:

1. I made comments on the tanker changes, i was "accidentally" banned for around 5 minutes before being allowed back in to the conversation.

I've not looked up the incident, but based on your description I'm not sure what the issue there is. A mistake was made and promptly corrected?

 

Keep in mind that the focused feedback threads are pruned more regularly to ensure they stay on topic, otherwise they stop being useful. For example I can see an entire tangent about a certain blue tights wearing hero was removed recently!

2 hours ago, Sylar said:

2. I have been insulted on numerous times when speaking up about the toxicity of this server.

Please report these posts, several of our GMs actively moderate the forum every day but we still rely heavily on user reports in order to see problematic posts. Plenty of people have had their posts actioned for defending us too aggressively. 

2 hours ago, Sylar said:

3. what i mean by the EULA style agreement is that you can halt people making any kind of copyrighted character but do not own the rights, so really legally you can't make those changes, especially since HC does not own the COH IP.

thatsnothowanyofthisworks.png 😉

 

It's specifically a User Agreement, not a EULA (End User License Agreement), there's no license involved, and we aren't claiming any ownership of the game. The User Agreement deals with matters of conduct and the enforcement of other laws. Just because the ownership of the game and IP are legally dubious, that doesn't mean other laws should be ignored.

2 hours ago, Sylar said:

4. "your" talks "their" talks , it doesn't matter, wait, you guys are working with the Titan Network in these talks right? they are the ones who attempted the talks many years ago and failed, why is this any different?

To the best of my knowledge Titan was never involved in any of the previous rounds of talks. Those that were simply posted on their forums. What I can tell you in absolute certainty is that this is a completely fresh conversation that began in April.