Fastest feeling Scrapper primary?

[sindyr]

I'd like to start a new character that feels lightning quick to play. What Scrapper primary best fits this goal?

[ninja surprise]

Claws is pretty quick.
Dark Melee has a bunch of fast punches and also Shadow Maul which you activate when you want to type something funny in chat.

[Krazie Ivan]

5 minutes ago, ninja surprise said:

and also Shadow Maul which you activate when you want to type something funny in chat

highly accurate.

Claws is also one of my top picks for animation speed. i'd add Katana & MA if you stick to the 4 best attacks of each set (which can be done easily with enough +Rech). TW can be fast... some of the time... more of the time if you really push the +Rech bonuses & pair with a set that has good +Rech built-in.

[Sovera]

Claws is the best thing after sliced bread. Savage Melee is also pretty good and, perhaps, better in the AoE since the last skill is a PbAoE instead of a cone. The Frenzy is just bass akwards since we lose the stacks of the damage and recharge when we use a spender making players contort themselves as to not spend a full stack and incur the cool down penalty.

[Shred Monkey]

Nobody ever talks about kinetic melee.   It's first 3 attacks are fast... very fast.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Shred Monkey

[Safehouse]

I love how kinetic melee feels too. Really a lot of fun, plus it even has some mild ranged powers.

[Haijinx]

Yeah but the KM slow attacks are slooooow.

 

Street Justice and Martial Arts both feel fairly fast .. except the their 9s 

 

 

 

 

[VashNKnives]

On 12/22/2019 at 4:21 PM, sindyr said:

I'd like to start a new character that feels lightning quick to play. What Scrapper primary best fits this goal?

Dual Blades looks fast with all the combos and that fancy top attack, but if you want lightning don't forget that  lightning strike teleport in electric melee. Also Kat is super stylish, imo 🙂

Edited December 25, 2019 by VashNKnives

[Call Me Awesome]

For fast animating and recharging attacks is there anything better than Claws?  It's lower damage per attack, but they activate and recharge so fast your DPS beats most other sets.

 

I've yet to seriously play Claws but the set's always intrigued me and I've teamed with some fantastic buzzsaws using it.

 

Even though Titan Weapons seems to be top of the heap on DPS it's a set that feels incredibly sloooooow.

[BrandX]

6 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Yeah but the KM slow attacks are slooooow.

 

Street Justice and Martial Arts both feel fairly fast .. except the their 9s 

 

 

 

 

 

Quick Strike is 1.056 seconds.  Body Blow is 1.32 seconds.  Smashing Blow is 1.452 seconds.

 

Follow Up is 1.056.  Focus is 1.32.  Slash is 1.584 seconds

 

Considering, from what I understand, the best ST DPS chains of these two sets consist of these powers...how exactly is Kinetic Melee slow?  

[Gauntlet_Prime]

I have a Kat/Nin that feals incredibly fast.  Nin gives some great movement and kat animates extremely fast.

[speczero]

Nothing in this game feels faster to play than a Stalker.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Claws, Katana, Kinetic all feel good to me. Claws wins, of course. Followup, Focus, Slash, repeat is a beautiful thing. I don't have one, but I bet claws/nin with its +movement is a blender on the battlefield. Claws/SR ain't no slowpoke.

[Erydanus]

On 12/22/2019 at 4:21 PM, sindyr said:

I'd like to start a new character that feels lightning quick to play. What Scrapper primary best fits this goal?

Based on the feel alone, Dual Blades. Hands down. The animations were specifically designed to make it feel very fast, with the attack animations flowing from hit to hit forming a continuous chain of strikes once you get just a bit of recharge reduction in to keep the chain paced. I have a claws scrapper and that is very fast too but DB has the feel of just being in a state of continuous Swedish Chef bork! Bork! BORK!

 

I believe people have sussed out better DPS paths than the combos but I like to at least use the first 2, Empower and Weaken. They both share the same first and second move and just vary by finisher so it's a simple A B C A B D rotation for much of the lower levels. I put an Avalanche: Chance of Knockdown in Typhoon's Edge which basically makes the Weaken combo act like it's also the finisher for Sweep. (At low levels I used the prestige enhancement from P2W for this instead.) You'll need to grab Nimble Slice, the tier 1 attack, which you might be tempted to skip for Power Slice, the tier 2 attack. But Power Slice isn't necessary for a combo until you have the level 32 attack. If you get Nimble Slash, Ablating Strike, and Typhoon's Edge by 6 that's your first combo, and at 8 you get Blinding Feint which is your build up combo.  So basically you'll have 2 combos to chain very quickly after character creation. You get Vengeful Slice at 18 which is an amazing corkscrew uppercut move with built in knockdown; it makes a great bridge between the two combos and a nice place to get some extra damage against a foe that needs an extra hit. As the set has two cones and a PBAoE, it is very aoe friendly. It probably pairs best with a secondary set that has some extra recovery in it; I took Radiation kind of just to try it and found the taunt aura extremely helpful at keeping mobs packed around me for maximum Cuisinart action.

[HelenCarnate]

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Claws, Katana, Kinetic all feel good to me. Claws wins, of course. Followup, Focus, Slash, repeat is a beautiful thing. I don't have one, but I bet claws/nin with its +movement is a blender on the battlefield. Claws/SR ain't no slowpoke.

Try Followup, Focus (BU proc), Slash (-resist proc), Followup, Focus, Shockwave (kb to kd) for the blender rotation.  Granted using Eviscerate is higher damage but that attack feels so clunky with the animation that I hate it and would rather use that chain instead.  Currently working on claws/nin and it is fast from level 1.  Even running DFB without enhancements, I always either had an attack ready to go or close to ready with little down time.  End result will be....

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strike -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(46), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(48)
Level 1: Ninja Reflexes -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(45), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(45), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 2: Slash -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(3), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Hct-Acc/Rchg(43), AchHee-ResDeb%(43)
Level 4: Danger Sense -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(5), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(5), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 6: Shinobi-Iri -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(7), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(7), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(9), ShlWal-Def(9), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(11)
Level 10: Kuji-In Rin -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Follow Up -- SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(15), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(42)
Level 16: Seishinteki Kyoyo -- EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(50)
Level 18: Focus -- Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(19), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Apc-Acc/Rchg(40), Dcm-Build%(42)
Level 20: Kuji-In Sha -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(21), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(21), Prv-Heal/Rchg(23), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(23), Prv-Absorb%(40)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(39)
Level 26: Spin -- Obl-%Dam(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Obl-Acc/Rchg(27), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(37), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Erd-%Dam(39)
Level 28: Bo Ryaku -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(29), UnbGrd-Max HP%(29), UnbGrd-ResDam(34)
Level 30: Weave -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(31), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Rct-Def/Rchg(31), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Rct-ResDam%(43)
Level 32: Shockwave -- PstBls-Dam%(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(33), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(33), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(34), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(34)
Level 35: Blinding Powder -- CrcPrs-Conf(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(36), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(36), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(36), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(37), CrcPrs-Conf%(37)
Level 38: Kuji-In Retsu -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 41: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(50), Mrc-Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
------------

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by HelenCarnate

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 hours ago, HelenCarnate said:

Try Followup, Focus (BU proc), Slash (-resist proc), Followup, Focus, Shockwave (kb to kd) for the blender rotation.

Tried the BU proc during my pylon testing but found that in the long run it wasn't adding more DPS than the Glad's Javelin CF Toxic I currently have in there.

For crowds, if I'm surrounded I target a boss and go Fu, Focus, Spin if they're tightly packed or Fu, Spin, Shockwave if they're in front of me.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Bill Z Bubba

[HelenCarnate]

Good to know. Ty

[Bill Z Bubba]

7 minutes ago, HelenCarnate said:

Good to know. Ty

You're welcome. I greatly dislike the PPM change. Back on live, I ran with a Gaussian's CFBU in Followup and the Decimation CFBU in Focus. It was glorious.

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Tried the BU proc during my pylon testing but found that in the long run it wasn't adding more DPS than the Glad's Javelin CF Toxic I currently have in there.

For crowds, if I'm surrounded I target a boss and go Fu, Focus, Spin if they're tightly packed or Fu, Spin, Shockwave if they're in front of me.

I had the same experience with the Decimation proc when I tested in a Sentinel. I still have the Gaussian proc because it works so well on BU powers but I had an inkling it wouldn't achieve as much on FU's super fast recharge which this seems to validate.

 

I'm currently leveling a Kinetic Melee but hmmmm, I don't know. It can be interesting and animations are really pretty but why does the cone have the same aperture as if we were playing a ranged character on top of the 2.5 animation time? This makes Repulsing Torrent a much weaker Shockwave and removes the ability that Claws has to not dip outside the primary in order to have a full AoE chain. I've dipped into Mu for Ball Lightning for the planned build but there will be gaps unlike with Claws with FU, Shockwave, Spin spam with no gaps.

 

It does make for some sweet early leveling as we bounce around doing much more damage than others do by dint of having two AoEs that can be spammed with a Force Feedback on each. And we really notice this. Energy Torrent comes at level 8 and we can get an Overwhelming Force proc at level 10 to fit it much sooner than Sudden Acceleration at 17. Doing a TF, approach a group, Repulsing Torrent at a distance, go in close, Burst. If any of the Force Feedback procced then Repulsing Torrent is back up. Move away, Repulsing Torrent. Go back in, T3, T2, Burst has recharged, use it, move away, Torrent.

 

So in terms of busy, yeah, we're not just plunging into the middle of the group and spamming attacks. The running back and forth is pretty active and with both Torrent and Burst having a KD component we're helping with soft CC. But in terms of game play and numbers the two together do not even kill white minions so we are bouncing around and not achieving really a lot. Mind, at these levels (28 atm) Claws is only relying on Spin so KM is still doing more. But once 32+ rolls in all this kangaroo business is a waste of time compared to Claws planting their feet and doing their AoE rotation with minimal adjusting.

 

 

The set does feel clunky though. The damage from the BU power is very noticeable but A) no such thing as a free lunch and the set is balanced around it. And B) again, clunkyness, two second cast time instead of 1.3 every 36 seconds (once everything is slotted up) eats up on time doing damage unlike Claws whose power-up comes from passively doing the attack chain.

 

On the upside the damage is less resisted than slash and we aaaaaalmost can do a T2 and T3 attack chain. Being able to remove the T1 would be almost a good thing but even all slotted up there's a 0.7 second gap and with the T1 being a one second cast it makes sense to use it, especially since the T1 has a Force Feedback. But there is no pleasure had in using T1s in the end game. T2, T3, T2, T1 rotation minimizes it for regular gameplay bit lowers the time hitting with the T3.

[Haijinx]

On 12/25/2019 at 6:31 AM, BrandX said:

 

Quick Strike is 1.056 seconds.  Body Blow is 1.32 seconds.  Smashing Blow is 1.452 seconds.

 

Follow Up is 1.056.  Focus is 1.32.  Slash is 1.584 seconds

 

Considering, from what I understand, the best ST DPS chains of these two sets consist of these powers...how exactly is Kinetic Melee slow?  

Interesting.

 

Still, burst feels much slower than something like Dragons tail. 

 

You can throw that one out in mid ST beatdown and not break your rythym. 

 

 

 

 

[BrandX]

4 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Interesting.

 

Still, burst feels much slower than something like Dragons tail. 

 

You can throw that one out in mid ST beatdown and not break your rythym. 

 

 

 

 

Well, Burst is 2.904 seconds (86.02 damage) versus Spin's 2.64 seconds (108.7 damage).  So, spin wins in damage and speed, however, Spin is Lethal while Burst is Smashing/Energy.  Dragon's Tail is faster than both of them at 1.716 seconds (81.2 damage).

 

Though, should be noted, both Burst and DT have knockdown.

[Haijinx]

Yeah spin also feels slow and breaks claws rythym some.

 

Unlike shockwave which meshes perfectly.

 

 

[Uun]

Martial Arts is very fast if you skip Eagles Claw and put a KB>KD in Crane Kick. 

[Frosticus]

just about every set has 3 fast low tier attscks . Some are animated more coherently so they feel smoother. 

 

For example - Katana is very fast but has weird hitches and pauses so I personally dont feel the speed. Whereas dual blades flows really well and ends up feeling faster imo.

 

Consider savage melee. the telenuke is near instant and is up often enough to be used as movement and damage.