Anyone a Psychologist who can help explain this to me?

[Solarverse]

So, this happens all of the time, on many different levels. You try and warn your team of something, not a single one of them listens to you, and then it happens just as you said it would. It happens all of the time. And once it happens, not a single person will say, "Damn, you were right, I should have listened."

 

Now, I noticed that we had a Widow on our Team for the Posi Part 1 grand fight at the end. I knew that the Widow would blind the team if we did not take her out first. So I warned the team and asked them to kill her first. I was lead of this team.

 

Here is an example, a direct copy paste from game chat to here. I will be changing names to protect those involved.

 

[Team] Me: Take out Player A first
[Team] Me: She will bind the team

 

After none of them follow instructions...the Widow blinded the whole team except for me, I was ranged and kept my distance from the Widow.

 

[Team] Player 2: I'm blinded lol
[Team] Player 3: SAME
[Team] Me: Tried to warn ya
[Team] Player 4: pop a yellow
[Team] Player 3: caps
[Team] Player 5: still blind
 

We finished the mission, said our farewells and that was it. Not a single player listened, not a single player admitted they should have listened.

 

Now, before I even said a word, I knew that not one single person would listen to me. It almost never fails, anytime I warn my teams of things to come, this is the norm. However, in hopes that at least one of them would listen, I spoke up and warned them.

 

So what is the psychology of this? Somebody explain this to me, please?

[Water]

Could be that you teamed with new players, nobody had a yellow, nobody cared, nobody listened, everybody wanted to experience blind..

 

I usually find that confidence is high until the wipe then  team actually teams.

[oxmox]

If they weren't aware of the special mechanics for that fight they may just be used to facerolling council radios and not paying any attention to chat. I can say in my experience with people trying to coach strategy, 90% of the time it's just way too much unfounded worrying over content that half the team could solo. Wouldn't be surprising if they learned to ignore most advice and got caught off guard when something bad actually happened this time.

[Solarverse]

2 minutes ago, oxmox said:

If they weren't aware of the special mechanics for that fight they may just be used to facerolling council radios and not paying any attention to chat. I can say in my experience with people trying to coach strategy, 90% of the time it's just way too much unfounded worrying over content that half the team could solo. Wouldn't be surprising if they learned to ignore most advice and got caught off guard when something bad actually happened this time.

LOL, I think you could be on to something here. I think that is actually a very good break down of what happens in situations like this.

[MetaVileTerror]

Do you have a copy of your chat logs for how you initially brought this up to your team, and for how you communicated with them prior to that moment?  Could be rather informative and helpful for giving an accurate answer.

[Solarverse]

1 minute ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Do you have a copy of your chat logs for how you initially brought this up to your team, and for how you communicated with them prior to that moment?  Could be rather informative and helpful for giving an accurate answer.

It was right before the final fight, everyone standing there assessing the situation. There wasn't much conversation before that other than me asking the team to clear the mobs around the front steps before rescuing the final Hero.

[Redlynne]

"Alright chums let's do this ..."

 

LEEEEEEROY JENKINS!

[MetaVileTerror]

I mention the chat logs as language can be a tricky monster sometimes, with plenty of unintended consequences from things like subtext.  While I'm not a licensed psychologist, I did have to study a great deal of psychology as part of my past career in the games industry.  The way we communicate can prime our audiences to be more or less receptive in a given scenario.  The precise messages you had sent, starting with recruiting for the team, may provide contextual clues to how the team reached that particular moment.  And you mentioned that this is something you've observed on more than one occasion, right?  Patterns and trends are important to analyze for reaching conclusions that can lead to applicable solutions.

[Solarverse]

9 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

I mention the chat logs as language can be a tricky monster sometimes, with plenty of unintended consequences from things like subtext.  While I'm not a licensed psychologist, I did have to study a great deal of psychology as part of my past career in the games industry.  The way we communicate can prime our audiences to be more or less receptive in a given scenario.  The precise messages you had sent, starting with recruiting for the team, may provide contextual clues to how the team reached that particular moment.  And you mentioned that this is something you've observed on more than one occasion, right?  Patterns and trends are important to analyze for reaching conclusions that can lead to applicable solutions.

So in other words, insufficient data for a proper analyses. Fair enough.  🙂

[EmmySky]

Why do you need them to acknowledge you were right?  

 

I led way too many teams on live so I won't do it now, but in my experience, they learned a lesson that they will take to the next fight.  Yeah, they neglected to give you a pat on the back for your foresight, but they still learned.  Playing with PuGs, this is a common occurance.  Human nature is such that we don't want to admit we may have possibly been slightly wrong even when the evidence is overwhelming.  Give yourself your pat on the back and dont bother expecting it from them, you will just be disappointed most of the time.  Don't give up trying to inform teammates of impending danger but try to be content with the fact that they did learn and will carry it forward, even if they don't acknowledge you for it.

[Leogunner]

Well, if they just all went along and the fight went smoothly, you wouldn't be here making a thread about it and we wouldn't be talking about the subject.

 

What I've learned over many hours of playing MMOs and other co-op games is, the experience is more fun and memorable when things DON'T go right.  I only bother trying to relay advice and strategy if the overall experience up until then has been bad and things look rough up ahead or several individuals are actually interested in utilizing a strategy.  Trying to herd cats isn't fun so I prefer to pull out water balloons and unleash a bit of my own insanity in the mix.

 

If I were in the OP's situation, I would certainly keep my distance until the first volley was over because likely, your team make-up will have debuffs and I don't want to get caught in them.  If I'm ranged, even better.  I know who my first target will be:  me.  Because the only person killing me is me, lol.

 

EDIT: And if I'm the tank, I feel utilizing a bit of movement can help as drawing the foes' attention then moving behind them, you can stay away from any dropped debuffs like Tar Patch or Glue Arrow and any persisting debuffs will be away from other teammates unless they huddle around me.  Of course, this only works for the opening volley and whatever happens after really depends how sturdy of a tank you are and what kinds of effects the shadow clones throw at you.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Leogunner

[Solarverse]

14 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

Why do you need them to acknowledge you were right?  

I guess because I personally have no issues admitting that perhaps I should have listened in a similar situation. I don't claim to be innocent of such doings, not listening, I think we all do that, but when I was wrong, I was wrong. So honestly, I don't "need" them to acknowledge that I was right, but more wondering why we as humans generally do not acknowledge it. To me it seems deeply embedded within us to ignore that we were wrong, even when we know we were wrong.

 

For an example, the company I work for has made several huge mistakes by some of the changes they have made. These mistakes are costing the company more cash than I can count. However, the company refuse to admit they made a mistake, and instead blame the employees for their failure, rather than revert the bad choice. So even when money is concerned, where stakes are high and you would think people would force themselves to think more logically and admit they were wrong, they still don't do it. So to me, there must be some deep psychological reason for this.

 

Hope that answers your question.  🙂

14 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

 

I led way too many teams on live so I won't do it now, but in my experience, they learned a lesson that they will take to the next fight. 

I agree, undoubtedly they will indeed do this. However, sadly, I think they will find the same result as I did when they attempt to alert their team, haha. Again, it seems to be human nature to not only listen to advice, even good advice. I myself have been guilty of this a time or two here and there.

14 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

 

Yeah, they neglected to give you a pat on the back for your foresight, but they still learned.  Playing with PuGs, this is a common occurance.  Human nature is such that we don't want to admit we may have possibly been slightly wrong even when the evidence is overwhelming. 

Exactly, and I am trying to understand...why? Where is this drive coming from?

14 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

Give yourself your pat on the back and dont bother expecting it from them, you will just be disappointed most of the time.  Don't give up trying to inform teammates of impending danger but try to be content with the fact that they did learn and will carry it forward, even if they don't acknowledge you for it.

This is good advice, advice that I myself will pass along.  🙂

[boggo2300]

1 hour ago, Redlynne said:

"Alright chums let's do this ..."

 

LEEEEEEROY JENKINS!

You do realise this is actually the most common tactic round here nowdays right?

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, boggo2300 said:

You do realise this is actually the most common tactic round here nowdays right?

I've heard rumors to that effect ...

 

/em whistles not so innocently ...

[Parabola]

5 hours ago, oxmox said:

I can say in my experience with people trying to coach strategy, 90% of the time it's just way too much unfounded worrying over content that half the team could solo.

My guess is this is a big part of it. I've often been bemused by the caution shown to content I know I can plough through single handed. There just isn't enough really hard stuff to breed caution (which is a shame).

 

Also in the fight mentioned the temptation to go after ones own clone first is pretty much overwhelming. I know I'm always thinking I better get him before he uses power x, before remembering that 90% of the time the ai is too dumb to use the best powers first.

[nihilii]

As a certified armchair psychologist, I think it might help to be more verbose if you want to convey a message.

"take out player A" "she will bind the team"

Even ignoring the typo:

- "blind" isn't so explicit. Players may or may not know what it means.

- you're giving out orders rather than suggestions. People don't tend to follow orders as well.

- "take out player A"? Might be confusing. "Target their clone" might make more sense.

The average MMO player has their attention split between 2 computer screens where the second one is playing cat videos, and their actual cats/children/wives/husbands. You're fighting for their attention. If the team has been quietly steamrolling content, you might need more than a couple words to grab their attention.

If you start with a question... Like "is anyone doing this fight for the first time?", you're putting the onus on people to answer - which makes them more involved, and you need just one answer for you to then say "ok [(yes answer) remember / (no answer) be wary] that the clone of Player A will have Smoke Grenade as a Widow, which will blind us and debuff our accuracy. Let's take her out first".

(But then, like oxmox and parabola point out, it's way too much fuss for the actual challenge at hand.)

[HelenCarnate]

That TF is great for getting people that don't listen.  "Stay away from the doors until we clear around the area or we will get swarmed".....10 seconds later mobs pour out from city hall.

[siolfir]

11 minutes ago, HelenCarnate said:

"Stay away from the doors until we clear around the area or we will get swarmed"

"What was that... something about doors.... okay, opening the door!"

[Sovera]

Truth is nothing is really hard and if you didn't even wipe it just reinforces that your worry was unfounded. This is not often the case in Posi 1 where that end fight can be pretty darn tough depending on the team composition. I have had plenty of wipes there and the fact the enemies look all the same in ink black and have the same name just makes it hard for me to even distinguish them. I usually pay zero attention to my team's costumes unless we're idling and waiting for someone. What I usually do is pop four purples and leroy it.

 

That said you did nothing bad and I will applaud having done it. Because, you just put the finger on what happened. Blinds can be very dangerous and also extremely annoying, so that group that played with you may not indeed have patted you on the back but thanks to that tidbit of information they came out informed and the next time, who knows, one of their alts will reach the end of Posi 1 and spread that bit of info if they notice a widow is in the team.

[quixoteprog]

Pretty close to what @oxmox said. This game is pretty easy, for the most part. And it can be very hard to judge the power level of your team just by sight. Unlike many fantasy MMOs where you can often recognize the high powered gear a player has in this game it can be a challenge to tell the difference between a team full of exemplared incarnates loaded up with a bunch of set bonuses and a group of newbie players still using training enhancements in half their slots.

 

I was in one team where the guy who was acting as our tank, that I was just barely managing to keep alive with my empathy conytoler, complained that half his enhancements had "expired". And he was not the only newbie in the group. Which went a long way toward explaining why we had such a hard time at first.

 

While I was baffled as to why he would let that happen I didn't complain. It was a pretty fun team, even though we wiped, or nearly so, a couple times; because it forced the group to actually do some communicating in order to come up with a strategy to complete the missions.

[Solarverse]

7 hours ago, parabola said:

My guess is this is a big part of it. I've often been bemused by the caution shown to content I know I can plough through single handed. There just isn't enough really hard stuff to breed caution (which is a shame).

 

Also in the fight mentioned the temptation to go after ones own clone first is pretty much overwhelming. I know I'm always thinking I better get him before he uses power x, before remembering that 90% of the time the ai is too dumb to use the best powers first.

This right here, very true. I have even been known to say in a jokingly way, "Kill my clone first! He'll kill us all!" right before that fight begins.

[seebs]

CoH tends not to require a ton of strategy or tactics. People often ignore suggestions for strategy and tactics.

 

In Posi 1, I usually focus on the best defender. I got lucky once, was on a team with only one defender, and I managed to confuse theirs. 🙂

 

[ZacKing]

People are under no obligation to listen to you.  some may even have closed the chat window to de-clutter the screen.

[TyrantMikey]

16 hours ago, Solarverse said:

So, this happens all of the time, on many different levels. You try and warn your team of something, not a single one of them listens to you, and then it happens just as you said it would. It happens all of the time. And once it happens, not a single person will say, "Damn, you were right, I should have listened."

 

Now, I noticed that we had a Widow on our Team for the Posi Part 1 grand fight at the end. I knew that the Widow would blind the team if we did not take her out first. So I warned the team and asked them to kill her first. I was lead of this team.

 

Here is an example, a direct copy paste from game chat to here. I will be changing names to protect those involved.

 

[Team] Me: Take out Player A first
[Team] Me: She will bind the team

 

After none of them follow instructions...the Widow blinded the whole team except for me, I was ranged and kept my distance from the Widow.

 

[Team] Player 2: I'm blinded lol
[Team] Player 3: SAME
[Team] Me: Tried to warn ya
[Team] Player 4: pop a yellow
[Team] Player 3: caps
[Team] Player 5: still blind
 

We finished the mission, said our farewells and that was it. Not a single player listened, not a single player admitted they should have listened.

 

Now, before I even said a word, I knew that not one single person would listen to me. It almost never fails, anytime I warn my teams of things to come, this is the norm. However, in hopes that at least one of them would listen, I spoke up and warned them.

 

So what is the psychology of this? Somebody explain this to me, please?

First, it is frustrating. No argument there.

 

Having said that, I'm guilty of not following instructions myself, and I've been around since the game launched. For me, personally, it's due to the fact that I have difficulty dividing my attention between combat and the chat window. 

 

It would be super helpful if there was an audio cue when messages came into chat from the team or league, but I'm not aware of any such cue. Then it would be easier to know when to glance down at chat. But for me, personally, it's really difficult to monitor both chat and combat at the same time.

 

YMMV.

[Arcanum]

I've actually been on several task forces where people will message me afterwards to inform me they moved 'team chat' into its own tab so they don't have to read it.

Seems a bit odd, personally, when you're doing a Task Force. However, to each their own. ^_^