Well, ya have Repel. Why not Draw In?

[kelika2]

Wind control sounds like it might be a thing sometime.

 

Drawing Enemies inwards would fix so many group unfriendly powers

Why not rework Hurricane, Force bubble, black hole/dimensional shift/whatever other group griefing power to draw in enemies instead of scatter/phase them?

 

Right now, I ask someone once to turn off Hurricane before kicking.  it serves no purpose.  a debuff that pushes enemies out of the debuff range?  scattering groups making it harder to AoE and therefore taking longer to clear?  Imagine a single mechanic change that can drastically alter the playstyle of the whole thing

/Storm suddenly going from a low tier mastermind set to one of the.. playable ones.  Ninjas/beasts/necromancy taking a massive turn in usefulness.

In-set usefulness would also go up.  Snow Storm slows them down allowing for a better draw-in effect, Gale with KB to KD pushing them down and all the while during their get-up animation being drawn in.  KB to KD in Tornado being a physical damage blender to all the tightly packed mobs.  And did you know that Lightning Storm is a small cone effect?  Other possibilities would be Controllers using their Stuns (not holds) and drawing in

 

Dimension Shift can be flat out renamed to Black Hole and Black Hole can be a snare/slow and draw in to wherever the player picked and for a gravity control set, makes so much more sense than.. phasing something out for some reason.  And Dark Miasthasmamashamalalamslamsah's version of black hole can have -tohit instead of snare/slow because why not sync it up with Dark Pit or Fearsome Stare?

Edited December 31, 2019 by kelika2

[MetaVileTerror]

The code doesn't allow for it.  Yet.

The Homecoming Team has announced, in the past, that they are working on a Vectored Knock code.  This will, hopefully, allow for what you're requesting here.

The other alternative is a Taunt which applies an Unresistable -99% Range Debuff . . . but that's unreliable, as some enemies might still run off in other directions due to AI hiccups.

[Sailboat]

We used to refer to this hypothetical power as "Suck Toward."

[RabbitUp]

2 hours ago, MetaVileTerror said:

The code doesn't allow for it.  Yet.

The Homecoming Team has announced, in the past, that they are working on a Vectored Knock code.  This will, hopefully, allow for what you're requesting here.

I would assume there's a way using regular knockback.

 

Say you make it a location targeted AoE power, which spawns a few invisible pseudopets in a circle and they all use Gale towards the center of the AoE.

 

That's a rough description, you can fine tune it by having multiple rings of these pets that each have a stronger knockback they farther away they are from the center so that all mobs are pushed towards a singular point.

 

[Call Me Awesome]

It's an idea I've seen kicked around several times over the years, it does have some potential.  If possible it would make sense for it to be a Gravity control power.

[Wavicle]

3 hours ago, kelika2 said:

 

 

Right now, I ask someone once to turn off Hurricane before kicking.  it serves no purpose.  a debuff that pushes enemies out of the debuff range?  scattering groups making it harder to AoE and therefore taking longer to clear? 

If you kick people for using Hurricane you're just proving you don't know how the game works.  Hurricane is an incredibly good power.  Now it CAN be used poorly, that's true, but kicking people for using powers that are effective when used properly just makes you a jerk.

[Razor Cure]

Hurricane with NO repel would be totally, utterly broken. As is, I think it is about the highest -to hit in the game, and a HUGE AoE. Also, the -range part is stupidly awesome, as anything that can push close to you, normally cant even use melee (usually their hardest) attacks.

 

[kelika2]

5 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

If you kick people for using Hurricane you're just proving you don't know how the game works.  Hurricane is an incredibly good power.  Now it CAN be used poorly, that's true, but kicking people for using powers that are effective when used properly just makes you a jerk.

read the post again, they get one ask.

and no, in the history of ever Hurricane has never made or broke a fight in terms of being useful.

there is no way to use this power effectively in a group setting.  ever.  since 2004 to now I never ever once seen someone use this and thought "wow"

Just stop and stop doing that whole "participation award" thing.  Hurricane just never

ever

ever

made a positive difference in a fight

ever

[kelika2]

4 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

Hurricane with NO repel would be totally, utterly broken. As is, I think it is about the highest -to hit in the game, and a HUGE AoE. Also, the -range part is stupidly awesome, as anything that can push close to you, normally cant even use melee (usually their hardest) attacks.

 

The repel is what makes it worthless right now.  Imagine if radiation/dark/other debuffs caused a fear effect to scatter from the anchor.

And as many times have I been inside a Tsoo Hurricane, my melee attacks are never shortened/negated

And while the -range is strong, please note that most ranged attacks are 50-80m.  take whatever hurricane's -range is and hurricanes circumference and you will see that even ranged attackers can smack you

 

And while it might have the highest -tohit in the game it does not mean much when some classes can def cap themselves without IOs (+def primaries/def secondaries) or bubblers with maneauvers etc and so on.  hell even radiation with a few tohit debuff SOs get -37% tohit which is a hop skip and a fart away from being near invincible.

[oedipus_tex]

Draw in as a Repel effect, doesn't work, but teleport does. 

 

Unfortunately we are probably stuck with the Phase powers forever. Phase powers take Intangible enhancements and you have to deal with that somehow with any changes to code.

 

There may be some possibility of an Intangibility IO set that drastically alters these powers though.

Edited January 1, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[Outrider_01]

11 hours ago, kelika2 said:

group griefing power

I am curious what games you or others have played that makes people complain and use the term "group" griefing.

 

Griefing in video games is harassing someone and enjoying the suffering it causes while the person recieving it becomes distressed.  That has been a long definition.

 

Your definition is misleading in a way and your are becomming distressed over your misunderstanding of the situation leading you to blame the other person. 

 

Yes the powers knock back, it is annoying as hell, and scattered stuff is harder to kill.  The person using it is completely cluless how to use Hurricane leaving it on a toggle.  Pushing stuff into a corner, groups them up. That isn't griefing, the person doesn't know how to use it; teach them and it's less of a problem.  TELL THEM HOW TO USE IT.  If they can't, then ask them to not use it.

11 hours ago, kelika2 said:

Right now, I ask someone once to turn off Hurricane before kicking.  it serves no purpose.  a debuff that pushes enemies out of the debuff range?  scattering groups making it harder to AoE and therefore taking longer to clear?  Imagine a single mechanic change that can drastically alter the playstyle of the whole thing

Pushing into a corner, game breaking.  It's a herding and controlling power, so long as you know how to use it.  Tank moves the in a direction, you come in at an angle towards a corner, done.  You ever see those weird ending hallways were groups spawn, easy.  Knocks stuff backward into wall, they can't even hit back from the mechanic...so long as you understand it.

 

Out in an open map, different situation.  It's an OH SHIT power that scatters stuff to keep your support ATs alive.  Gives them breathing room.

 

2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

in the history of ever Hurricane has never made or broke a fight in terms of being useful.

there is no way to use this power effectively in a group setting.  ever.  since 2004 to now I never ever once seen someone use this and thought "wow"

I have given you 2 situations.  The person using it is like an idiot and you don't understand how it can best be deployed.

 

2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

And as many times have I been inside a Tsoo Hurricane, my melee attacks are never shortened/negated

And while the -range is strong, please note that most ranged attacks are 50-80m.  take whatever hurricane's -range is and hurricanes circumference and you will see that even ranged attackers can smack you

So enemy NPC don't have ranged?  Wierd, cause if your aggressive and run up they get scatterd, dumb AI still has that debuff for a few more seconds and the AI will try to melee or run around with nothing to do until it wears off.  Yeah it is a few seconds but it adds up.

 

2 hours ago, kelika2 said:

And while it might have the highest -tohit in the game it does not mean much when some classes can def cap

Bonus defense, can't complain.  -tohit is the other side of the equation of defences.

 

And a knock down conversion IO does exist, though I don't know how useful it is if the effect stacks to much.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Outrider_01

[Zepp]

The repel is what makes it awesome. Hurricane with TP foe or wormhole allows you to completely destroy things solo or thin the herd with a group. Throw  your tornadoes and lightning clouds in there and it destroys everything.

 

It can also be used to protect yourself or ranged squishies from wayward mobs...

 

Watch what the player is doing and either they don't know what they are doing or you are jumping to conclusions.

 

Storm Summoning is one of the more difficult sets to use well. It is even more difficult to use in groups that have an irrational aversion to kb & repel.

[Wavicle]

4 hours ago, kelika2 said:

read the post again, they get one ask.

and no, in the history of ever Hurricane has never made or broke a fight in terms of being useful.

there is no way to use this power effectively in a group setting.  ever.  since 2004 to now I never ever once seen someone use this and thought "wow"

Just stop and stop doing that whole "participation award" thing.  Hurricane just never

ever

ever

made a positive difference in a fight

ever

hahahahahaha ahaha  ahahahahahahahah

[Roderick]

4 hours ago, kelika2 said:

read the post again, they get one ask.

and no, in the history of ever Hurricane has never made or broke a fight in terms of being useful.

there is no way to use this power effectively in a group setting.  ever.  since 2004 to now I never ever once seen someone use this and thought "wow"

Just stop and stop doing that whole "participation award" thing.  Hurricane just never

ever

ever

made a positive difference in a fight

ever

Hurricane is hard (but not impossible) to use well in an outdoors map.

 

Indoors on the other hand, it's freaking amazing. It takes practice, and I freely admit that I'm no good at it, but using hurricane to mash an entire spawn into a corner is amazing. It even (effectively) ignores target caps because on one pulse of the power, it pushes the affected enemies behind the ones above the target cap, and targets are picked from the closest out, until the cap is reached, so on the next pulse, it picks the ones that were missed before.

 

With the modern rush mentality fostered by IOs and Incarnates, you don't see it much any more, but I remember watching the team stand in the hall while the tank pulled a group from the room into the corner, then the stormie slams everything in so they can't escape while everyone else drops mass AoE on them. It was glorious, and there's no reliable way to replicate it without Hurricane.

[Purrfekshawn]

14 hours ago, MetaVileTerror said:

The code doesn't allow for it.  Yet.

The Homecoming Team has announced, in the past, that they are working on a Vectored Knock code.  This will, hopefully, allow for what you're requesting here.

The other alternative is a Taunt which applies an Unresistable -99% Range Debuff . . . but that's unreliable, as some enemies might still run off in other directions due to AI hiccups.

When l thought about making a power that pulls nearby enemies in - l always thought it might have been made PBAoE effect that applies TELEPORT (with mag more than 4.1, so it may work on 54 lvl adds) to all affected targets (target spot is a power caster character, not selectable). Because its range would be pretty short (up to 25 ft), visually that "teleport" (given that it won't have translucency) would be almost indistinguishable from knock to.

[Zepp]

I would like to note that there has been some discussion about the new base code allowing vectored repel/kb, but I do not think breaking hurricane would be a good idea.

[kelika2]

2 hours ago, Roderick said:

Hurricane is hard (but not impossible) to use well in an outdoors map.

I didnt read your post.  hurricane is shit 99% of the time and that 1% of the time is not worth the enhancement slots or power slot or waiting for people to make it useful.

 

i dont care if you can herd in 20 seconds a group when we can kill it in 1-5 seconds

i dont care if you had that one awesome moment 10 years ago

i dont care if you think you can do it because you think you can maybe even if when the stars, moon and sign line up

i dont care if when solo make use of it

 

hurricane, as is, is absolute dogshit and you cannot and will not change my mind on it.  however if it was changed to a draw-in...

[Lines]

I use Hurricane often on my MM, treating it like a ST debuff. Once we're down to just an EB or AV, I'll switch it on, try and push them against a wall (or let them resist the repel, which is usually the case) and let it debuff the bejeezus out of them.

 

It doesn't need to get any better, and I wouldn't want to nerf the debuffs in favour of repositioning mobs.

 

It's a good power.

[kelika2]

5 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

 

Griefing in video games is harassing someone and enjoying the suffering it causes while the person recieving it becomes distressed.  That has been a long definition.

 

the rest of your post was irrelevant because Hurricane is griefing.  as well as black hole and dimension shift.

 

no logical times

no rational times

no adult times

 

has these powers ever had a practical use.

much like that one family guy episode from 15 years ago where Peter was making that sound by rubbing his hand on the plastic furniture saying it is easier on him because he is the one making the noise

there are 7 others in the group wondering when the fuck you will grow up

and that one hero of the group/decade who is willing to remove you for griefing a group who are also just trying to get through the day.

[kelika2]

5 minutes ago, Lines said:

I use Hurricane often on my MM, treating it like a ST debuff.

If you are solo, i dont care what you are doing.  but be mindful that AVs resist debuffs hardcore when those purple triangles are up.  that hurricane you are griefing with is a -3%~ tohit debuff with [Purple Triangles of Doom]

 

You can say its a good power all you want, but that does not make it true.

[kelika2]

3 hours ago, Roderick said:

then the stormie slams everything in so they can't escape while everyone else drops mass AoE on them. It was glorious, and there's no reliable way to replicate it without Hurricane.

I have been playing Live CoH since before The Hallows and never fucking once has this ever come up.

Even in the pre-IO days(issue 9?) there has been one ballsy tank with or without Fortitude gathering entire maps up meanwhile a /dev blaster is setting up.

 

In fact, because most things can out range Hurricane even with the -range debuff I am going to call you out for mis-remembering shit just to make shit up because there is no way to prove or disprove that said situation really happened.

 

Hurricane has and always will be shit.

Unless they turn it into a Draw-in effect.

[boggo2300]

7 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

I have been playing Live CoH since before The Hallows and never fucking once has this ever come up.

Even in the pre-IO days(issue 9?) there has been one ballsy tank with or without Fortitude gathering entire maps up meanwhile a /dev blaster is setting up.

 

In fact, because most things can out range Hurricane even with the -range debuff I am going to call you out for mis-remembering shit just to make shit up because there is no way to prove or disprove that said situation really happened.

 

Hurricane has and always will be shit.

Unless they turn it into a Draw-in effect.

well it sounds like you are very restrictive on the AT's you team with, I haven't teamed with a Tank or a Brute in ages, I love teaming with Grav/Storm trollers but I do love some mayhem in my City

[kelika2]

For future white knight spergs:

 

I have had to kick a grand total of four (4) people from groups since week 1 of May of 2019 for using hurricane/shift/black hole for refusal to give up.

 

Mind your spergism

[kelika2]

2 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

well it sounds like you are very restrictive on the AT's

Sets, and people who cannot control themselves or work as a team.

 

Fixed.

[Lines]

You sound like fun.