How unkillable can you get?

[Klipster]

What is the set to use? That can handle literally EVERYTHING (Looking at you, Recluse)? I've had an Invuln that somewhat patched the psi hole, but even that isn't enough. Is it Radiation? I must know!

[Caulderone]

Infinitum's Shield/x build and several of Hyperstrike's Invuln./x builds are likely the best besides Earth (Granite).

 

Earth using Granite is the most survival, but sacrifices lots of offense.

[Infinitum]

50 minutes ago, Caulderone said:

Infinitum's Shield/x build and several of Hyperstrike's Invuln./x builds are likely the best besides Earth (Granite).

 

Earth using Granite is the most survival, but sacrifices lots of offense. And movement, and psy protection.

Thanks for the shout out.

Your SR build is top notch too.

[oOStaticOo]

With Elec Armor you can Hard Cap all Resists to 90% except for Negative and Toxic.  Plus Elec Armor has a Self-Heal and a Self-End gain.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

oOStatic NekoOo: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Electric Armor
Secondary Power Set: Titan Weapons
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Armor -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), TtnCtn-ResDam(3), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(3), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Defensive Sweep -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(7), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(7), FuroftheG-Acc/End/Rech(9), FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(9)
Level 2: Conductive Shield -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), TtnCtn-ResDam(11), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(11), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Titan Sweep -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(13), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), FrcFdb-Rechg%(17)
Level 6: Lightning Field -- EndRdx-I(A), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(19), Obl-%Dam(19), Arm-Dam%(21), Erd-%Dam(21), ScrDrv-Dam%(23)
Level 8: Grounded -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Ags-Psi/Status(23), ImpArm-ResPsi(25), GldArm-3defTpProc(25)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(27), Rct-ResDam%(48)
Level 12: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 16: Static Shield -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), TtnCtn-ResDam(29), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(29), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 18: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I(A)
Level 20: Build Momentum -- AdjTrg-ToHit/Rchg(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(31), AdjTrg-Rchg(48)
Level 22: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), TtnCtn-ResDam(33), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(33), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 26: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(34), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(34), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 28: Rend Armor -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Hct-Acc/Rchg(36), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 30: Energize -- DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx(A), DctWnd-EndRdx/Rchg(37), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(37), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(37), DctWnd-Heal(39), DctWnd-Rchg(39)
Level 32: Power Sink -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(39), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(40), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg(40), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(40), MckBrt-Rchg(42)
Level 35: Whirling Smash -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Rchg(43), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(43), FrcFdb-Rechg%(43)
Level 38: Arc of Destruction -- FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(A), FuroftheG-Acc/End/Rech(45), Mlt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Mlt-Acc/Dmg(46), FrcFdb-Rechg%(46)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(50), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(50), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(48)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 1: Momentum 
Level 50: Agility Partial Core Revamp 
------------

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Edited January 5, 2020 by oOStaticOo

[Zemius]

Great stuff guys. I do like invuln, but it's kinda boring. Seeing elec on here is a nice change of pace though, I might even give that a go. Appreciate your time, gents.

 

Edit: Different accounts on laptop and phone, gets confusing sometimes 😛

Edited January 5, 2020 by Zemius

[Hyperstrike]

8 hours ago, Caulderone said:

Infinitum's Shield/x build and several of Hyperstrike's Invuln./x builds are likely the best besides Earth (Granite).

 

Earth using Granite is the most survival, but sacrifices lots of offense.

 

 

7 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Thanks for the shout out.

Your SR build is top notch too.

Same here.
And agreed on both points.

 

[Hyperstrike]

7 hours ago, oOStaticOo said:

With Elec Armor you can Hard Cap all Resists to 90% except for Negative and Toxic.  Plus Elec Armor has a Self-Heal and a Self-End gain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

With Elec/Fire/Rad, you know, the Resist-based Armors, they can be VERY tough.
However, remember that whatever Defense you layer on comes right off with Defense debuffs.

Therefore, even with technically inferior Resists, they generally deliver overall superior performance.

[Sailboat]

Remember that Granite reaches its ultimate durability by running Rooted at the same time, which is a sever hit to your mobility.  But you are astoundingly durable while doing so.

 

It's not news that sets with Defense Debuff Resistance (DDR) mitigate masses of debuffs and thereby hold off "cascading failure" of defense (like when fighting huge crowds of sword-armed Romans).  SR, Invuln and Shield are good examples of this.

 

Personally my toughest non-Granite tank back in the day was a soft-capped Invuln/SS tanker.  Very hard to bring down even with exotic damage types and defense debuffs -- once I held off a huge spawn of Dark-energy-spewing Nictus and defense-debuffing Romans for an agonizingly long time while the team regrouped, despite Inv's poor resistance to Dark damage.  The character was IOed with additional resist bonuses, and liberally used Dull Pain and Inspirations, but it worked.

[Haijinx]

You can build WP into the nigh unkillable stage also.  

 

Not having any real weak spots makes ever survival based IO contribute to the whole, rather than having to patch holes. 

 

Also you never get to that situation where you are  significantly Overcapped wasting some potential.

 

 

 

 

[Bopper]

I don't know enough with the Absorb mechanic, so I am not considering Bio or Dad in this opinion, but ultimately I'd think a Stone tank is the most unkillable (and easiest to get to unkillable for all things non-psionic).

 

With as little as 3 stone armor powers (Earths Embrace, Rooted and Granite Armor), you can softcap all non-psi defense types, hardcap all non-psi resistance types, cap your HP, have 60% DDR, and achieve really good regeneration (which pairs nicely with your max HP).

 

Although you have a psi hole, you can shore that up with set bonuses and taking Minerals. I've done builds where I achieved softcapped Psi and approx. 80-85% psi resistance.

 

As for movement limitations, use teleport. It sucks...but with great survivability comes sacrifices.

[Hyperstrike]

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

You can build WP into the nigh unkillable stage also.  

 

Not having any real weak spots makes ever survival based IO contribute to the whole, rather than having to patch holes. 

 

Also you never get to that situation where you are  significantly Overcapped wasting some potential.

The thing is, that over-capped level IS something desirable.  Look at it as a buffer against Defense debuffs.
It's a bit harder to built large quantities of Defense AND Resist on WP.

Most of the time, you're fine, especially when your regen is cooking along.

But there's going to be a few times you're going to get caught french-kissing Madame Linoleum.

As for Bopper.

Yes, a fully optimized Granite build in Stone is THE gold standard for unkillability.
However, it's usually not worth the downsides.

Shield and Invuln can't be built QUITE as tough.

But, for the majority of the content, they're still "More than tough enough."

[Heraclea]

A lot depends on what kind if content you run, and whether you are solo or teamed.  Granite has the highest resist and defense numbers, but will be a pain to solo and may not be all that tough in practice because of taking damage for much longer.  Invuln and Shield are easy to build to comparable levels of defense and resistance.

 

Seondaries like Dark and Radiation definitely help also.  Dark's self heal is more reliable than Rad, but Rad has more AoE potential.

[Marine X]

Tanks:

Marine X is Inv/SS. ( 50+37vet HC/50+Max on Live )

Livingston is Stone/Fire Melee. ( 14 HC/50+Max on Live )

Warhorse is Shield/Mace. ( 23 HC/50+Max on Live )

AC Volt is Electric/Electric. ( 21 HC/50+ ? on Live )

 

Brutes:

Bubba Burns is Fire/Rad Melee ( 50+9vet HC only )

 

And guess what, I love all my recreated toons, and Bubba is a blast, but the easiest to play and toughest toon ( for his level ) I have at this point:

 

Grimmwolf is BioArmor/Savage Melee. ( 24 HC only )

I can take on +2 or higher WarWolves and Vampyri and not have to worry much, can't wait to see how he is at higher levels, but very Scrapper like Damage and great Defense/Resistance, Anyone have an Incarnate with these Sets to give me a projection?

 

 

 

[Gobbledigook]

DA is very durable once you overcome the end issues. With it's debuffs, CC and good mitigations.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[tellania]

Since we are talking unkillable ...

 

You need to consider secondaries for mitigation as well.

 

Resistance, Defense, +HP and regen are primary mitigations.   

 

Heal can straddle both primaries and secondaries (dark melee, fire armor), and should be considered.

 

Secondary are knockdown/back (e.g. axe, ice, etc), and any builtin CC (fear on a dark tank, Ice/SS having a hold, ICE having -recharge, etc).

 

Primaries usually let you stand there, order a pizza, eat the pizza, and come back alive.

Secondaries (and heals) can offer CONSIDERABLE survivability, but require you to click to ensure survivability.

A stone/dark tank will be more survivable than a stone/fire tank, esp against Recluse.

 

Though, as mentioned, stone/ can be painful to level, but its my 'A' Game player for those master STF (or is it lady liberty TF now?). moments, it is dead last in 'let me log in and casually play with a PUG or solo' moment.

 

I didnt mention damage, since brutes/scrappers do it faster.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 hours ago, tellania said:

Primaries usually let you stand there, order a pizza, eat the pizza, and come back alive.

Secondaries (and heals) can offer CONSIDERABLE survivability, but require you to click to ensure survivability.

 

Put claws spin with a chance for KD slotted on auto. Best of both while going off for pizza and beer.

[siolfir]

On 1/4/2020 at 7:09 PM, oOStaticOo said:

With Elec Armor you can Hard Cap all Resists to 90% except for Negative and Toxic. 

If you want to use Power Surge (which I don't, but I had it pre-IOs) you can cap those, also. With a Brute, who has much lower base numbers. Back then it was tricky to time it, but you could also hit Power Sink as it crashed, refill your endurance, use Aid Self (because of the PBAoE hold that was part of the crash) or greens, and keep going without detoggling. Nowadays you could use Energize instead of Aid Self, which would also help with the -recovery part of the crash.

 

As mentioned earlier, the issue is you're still getting hit by debuffs without defense, and you have no DDR to protect what you get from set bonuses. That said, my Rad/Elec Brute is pretty hard to kill even without softcapped defense (positional defenses range from 32-36%) unless you're throwing a lot of toxic damage (10-20% resistance with Reactive Defense proc IO).

 

Surprised I haven't seen more Dark Armor love, though; build it right and it's unkillable, and the Theft of Essence proc makes Dark Regeneration a live-target Stygian Circle to cure endurance issues.

Edited January 8, 2020 by siolfir

[Call Me Awesome]

Back on Live I had two level 50 stone tankers, one rolled post GDN/ED and pre-nerf Stone/Energy Melee (shelved post nerf and never played again) and a Stone/Fire.  The Stone/Fire was a capable tanker and I played him frequently but once IO's really came in and I worked out how to get the most return for investment I reworked CMA, my Invuln/Stone tanker and almost never ran the Stone/Fire, the small durability advantage wasn't worth the mobility, damage & recharge penalties.

 

If you're planning a pure SO/common IO build then Stone armor is the gold standard for durability.  Toss a willingness to invest in set IO's and a good build then you can get nearly the same durability without any of the drawbacks in several sets, notably Invuln and Shield.

[oOStaticOo]

57 minutes ago, siolfir said:

If you want to use Power Surge (which I don't, but I had it pre-IOs) you can cap those, also. With a Brute, who has much lower base numbers. Back then it was tricky to time it, but you could also hit Power Sink as it crashed, refill your endurance, use Aid Self (because of the PBAoE hold that was part of the crash) or greens, and keep going without detoggling. Nowadays you could use Energize instead of Aid Self, which would also help with the -recovery part of the crash.

 

As mentioned earlier, the issue is you're still getting hit by debuffs without defense, and you have no DDR to protect what you get from set bonuses. That said, my Rad/Elec Brute is pretty hard to kill even without softcapped defense (positional defenses range from 32-36%) unless you're throwing a lot of toxic damage (10-20% resistance with Reactive Defense proc IO).

 

Surprised I haven't seen more Dark Armor love, though; build it right and it's unkillable, and the Theft of Essence proc makes Dark Regeneration a live-target Stygian Circle to cure endurance issues.

Look at the Build I posted, I don't have Power Surge either and everything but Neg and Tox is capped to 90%.

[siolfir]

2 minutes ago, oOStaticOo said:

Look at the Build I posted, I don't have Power Surge either and everything but Neg and Tox is capped to 90%.

I did look at it. I was also referring to a Brute instead of a Tanker. I was just pointing out that the Toxic hole actually has an in-set solution, it's just not worth taking for the most part and you can actually cap everything if you want. And even with those holes and the lack of defense debuff resistance, my Brute is still very difficult to kill; a friend has a Stone Melee/Elec Brute that capped all but Negative, Toxic, and Psi with similar levels of defense to my Rad/Elec.

 

I wasn't saying the build was bad, I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with it. I was just saying that even the resistances that aren't capped in that build can be capped also.

Edited January 8, 2020 by siolfir

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, oOStaticOo said:

Look at the Build I posted, I don't have Power Surge either and everything but Neg and Tox is capped to 90%.

With elec armor and how it caps - it doesnt make sense to not roll it as a brute, simply because the resistance numbers are so similar and you still have the same weaknesses as if you had a tank, but with a better damage output.

 

This could change once the tank changes roll out, so who knows.

 

The best way to mitigate the toxic hole is to utilize energize, get rebirth radial, and melee core hybrid, leverage void radial judgement for the -dmg, and go with the resistance alpha - then you are mitigating it 5 ways and it spreads it out enough to where each factor keeps your HP bar high.

 

I did this with my first Elite build on homecoming and played it for months.  Then i got altitis really bad.  I ran everything with the Rad Elec brute though and even TFs like the apex I was still unkillable and didnt notice any incoming damage.  Your endurance is second to none, and you eat psi for breakfast.

 

This is my build, I have refined it several times but its a good one.

Shadowstryke - Brute (Radiation Melee - Electric Armor).mxd

[Infinitum]

This is my shield build, with AAO running it outputs nearing brute damage. and its probably 50 % more unkillable than the brute, i honestly havent found anything, normal or incarnate that really hurts me.  Weird stuff like the blue swords of death on apex and the air crackles on magisterium can, but thats all unresistable stuff - so it dont count.

 

Captain Infinitum - Tanker (Shield Defense - Street Justice).mxdCaptain Infinitum - Tanker (Shield Defense - Street Justice) Assault Stance.mxd

 

The assault stance has even more damage output - and i currently have both setups that i interchange as needed.

[Infinitum]

This is my invul build, i think i patched the psi hole pretty good.  Its a solid build

 

.Infinitum - Tanker (Invulnerability - Super Strength).mxd

Edited January 8, 2020 by Infinitum

[Haijinx]

29 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

This is my invul build, i think i patched the psi hole pretty good.  Its a solid build

 

.Infinitum - Tanker (Invulnerability - Super Strength).mxd

I imagine a stone tanker could get similar PSI protection patched up. 

 

 

 

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

I imagine a stone tanker could get similar PSI protection patched up. 

 

 

 

probably could, but i can step up on a curb on the invul build  LOL