Super Reflexes?

[Nemeroff]

On HC Flavor of the Month threads spanning 1-50 across Brutes, Scrappers, Stalkers, and Tanks I see SR isn't too popular.  (Nor Staff for that matter.)

 

On Live I had a mid-40's Brute DM/SR, very survivable.  I thought Super Reflexes was significantly better than average.  True that it is a late bloomer but I prefer that.

 

Are Staff and/or SR that bad and limiting?

 

I think I know the answer to my question: the Dark Melee was like a crutch for any holes when combined with SR.  But any feedback is welcome! TY in advance.

Final Note: not a PLer.

[Frostbiter]

I had a MA/SR scrapper on Live, but the Ninjitsu set ported over from Stalkers has a bit more utility to it. I picked it instead this time.

[Fan Mail]

I would implore you to read Redlynne's SR/MA Tanker guide.  As far as SR goes, I'm a HUGE fan.  I've 50'ed it 3 times.  

 

Updated to build v.2.

Edited January 7, 2020 by tafilr

[Bill Z Bubba]

SR was and continues to be my favorite mitigation set. No clue why it's low on the rankings.

[Shred Monkey]

/SR is like bringing a store-bought pie to a party instead of baking your own from scratch.  It's easier and tastes fine, but making one from scratch that tastes good feels like more of an achievement. 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Shred Monkey

[carroto]

1 hour ago, Nemeroff said:

Are Staff and/or SR that bad and limiting?

Staff for me just lacks anything interesting about it.  I think it's largely a "feel" thing.  The animations don't look powerful and the sounds are underwhelming.  It's like you're just kind of lazily thwacking things with a stick.  Not very super.  I've come to realize that these things play a big role in my enjoyment of a set.  Some that are great on paper I just can't get into.

 

SR has a lot going for it but it's all passive mitigation.  Not very interesting.  I like an armor set that contributes to damage or has some other utility.  I'm a big fan of damage auras but we almost exclusively have to go to resistance sets for those.  I suspect that's one of the reasons for shield's popularity.  It adds a nice attack as well as a +damage boost.

 

I also suspect that a part of it is the lack of a heal.  Most of us have been in situations where we got into trouble and had to take some reactive measure to make it through.  SR has nothing.  No way to react or respond to a bad situation, just hope that your scaling resists and regen will carry you through.  I'm not sure that it's a completely rational view, but then we're not always rational beings.

[Bill Z Bubba]

SR is a fine 10% ABV stout. Sure, it's not some 13% ABV beast but it's filling and good for you.

[Broken_Prey]

My badgers on live was a BS/SR. When /SD came out I didn't find him as fun because BS/SD>BS/SR, IMO. 

 

So on homecoming I wanted him to still be SR so I made him staff/SR. He's okay but nothing great. If it can be paired with /SD it's hard for me not to pick /SD.  

 

Nin is also new to scrappers so a lot people are picking that to play because it is different. It's similar to /SR but has some tricks that makes it more fun. 

 

For me now I only pick /SR for concept otherwise I pick SD then nin. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Broken_Prey

[Heraclea]

I have a SR/katana tanker that I abandoned in favor of a Shield/Fire tanker that is my main defense based tanker.  As a tanker set SR is handicapped with a much weaker than normal taunt aura.  In that it's similar to Willpower, without Willpower's compensations of more recovery and regeneration.  I had a DM/SR scrapper in the old game, that was my AE baby and goto character for running AE missions.  That scrapper was adequately tough when tricked out with +recovery powers and IOs.  But expensive to build that way also.  And as a scrapper no one expected the character to hold aggro. 

 

Reflexes simply lacks advantages like Shield or Ice do as defense based set.  I would go with one of those to create a defense based character, at least if you are making a tanker. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 hours ago, Nemeroff said:

 

 

Are Staff and/or SR that bad and limiting?

 

 

Staff is good, but it has some issues.  I like it best on Stalkers and least on Scrappers.

 

It's primarily AoE, so you may have some troubles with single hard targets like AVs or GMs.  I like it with Bio, personally.

 

There's a recent Staff/SR thread in the scrapper forum, I believe.  Check it out!

[Uun]

I rolled a SR/Staff tank a few months ago and he's up to 38 now. SR makes a very solid tank unless you run into autohit defense debuffs. Staff is OK but not sexy. Needs some work on the animations and SFX.

[Uun]

7 minutes ago, Heraclea said:

I have a SR/katana tanker that I abandoned in favor of a Shield/Fire tanker that is my main defense based tanker.  As a tanker set SR is handicapped with a much weaker than normal taunt aura.  In that it's similar to Willpower, without Willpower's compensations of more recovery and regeneration.  I had a DM/SR scrapper in the old game, that was my AE baby and goto character for running AE missions.  That scrapper was adequately tough when tricked out with +recovery powers and IOs.  But expensive to build that way also.  And as a scrapper no one expected the character to hold aggro. 

 

Reflexes simply lacks advantages like Shield or Ice do as defense based set.  I would go with one of those to create a defense based character, at least if you are making a tanker. 

There was a thread a few months back in which Captain Powerhouse confirmed that the taunt aura for SR tanks was 13.6 seconds mag 4, making it the same as all the other tank armors except invul and shield (17s mag 4) and Willpower (1.25s mag 3). 

[Leogunner]

People are rolling Bio Armor, that's why. 

[Corruption]

SR is lackluster because positional defense is the only thing going for it. If I wanted a defense based character, I'd choose Shield over it every single time. Not to mention what resistance based sets can do with softcapped defense.

[Caulderone]

4 hours ago, tafilr said:

I would implore you to read Redlynne's SR/MA Tanker guide.  As far as SR goes, I'm a HUGE fan.  I've 50'ed it 3 times.  

 

 

You should update that to her V2 entry.

 

 

[Caulderone]

4 hours ago, Heraclea said:

As a tanker set SR is handicapped with a much weaker than normal taunt aura.

I'm not sure if this is accurate, as this post from Captain Powerhouse indicates it is Mag 4 for 13.6 seconds.

Mag 4 is the same as other sets (once the Beta fix for Willpower's aura comes live).  The duration may be slightly different (planner lists some of them as 17 seconds), but the tick rate on any of them should make that irrelevant?  Most tick at 1 second intervals.  SR is 0.5 in the planner (unsure of accuracy on this), but even at 1s, over 13 seconds of duration should make them all similar, right?

 

 

edit:  Doh!  Missed Uun had already covered this earlier.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Caulderone

[siolfir]

9 minutes ago, Caulderone said:

The duration may be slightly different (planner lists some of them as 17 seconds),

Those are being affected by the patch on beta to normalize them all, currently two are too long (Invincibility and Against All Odds) and one is too short (Rise to the Challenge).

[Fan Mail]

Didn't know there was a version two of that build.  Updated my above post!

[TheOtherTed]

As others have said, Ninjutsu offers broader utility than Super Reflexes.  Stealth, increased jumping and run speed, endurance recovery, self-heal, even a placate/confuse power.  In contrast, Super Reflexes offers defense, more defense, a little resistance, yet more defense, and tops it all off with - you guessed it - defense.  I'm not sure how the numbers work, but I will say that my Martial Arts / Ninjutsu scrapper feels almost embarrassingly overpowered.

 

I do loves me some Staff, though - but mainly for thematic reasons.  I like the animations well enough, but I can't help but notice that one of those other superhero games has incredible animations for staff fighting.

[Bill Z Bubba]

6 minutes ago, TheOtherTed said:

In contrast, Super Reflexes offers defense, more defense, a little resistance, yet more defense

 

And capped defense debuff resistance. Something Nin doesn't come close to. SR doesn't experience cascading defense failure like Nin does.

[siolfir]

36 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

And capped defense debuff resistance. Something Nin doesn't come close to. SR doesn't experience cascading defense failure like Nin does.

True, but Ninjitsu gets a longer-recharge Seeds of Confusion in Blinding Powder + Coercive Persuasion's Contagious Confusion proc (2 min base vs 1 min base). When they're busy hitting each other with defense debuffs instead of you the game becomes much easier, and the proc fires often enough that it's effectively mag 5 for the first 10 seconds.

[Redlynne]

7 hours ago, carroto said:

I also suspect that a part of it is the lack of a heal.  Most of us have been in situations where we got into trouble and had to take some reactive measure to make it through.  SR has nothing.  No way to react or respond to a bad situation, just hope that your scaling resists and regen will carry you through.  I'm not sure that it's a completely rational view, but then we're not always rational beings.

That's what the Medicine pool is for.

So long as you aren't Interrupted (and with enough Defense, unless you're stuck in a DoT you most likely won't be) you can use Aid Self as your heal with Super Reflexes.  I did this "all the time" back on Virtue after working it into my build (back then) at level 38.  Aid Self basically "solved" most (if not all) of the survivability issues I had with Super Reflexes (on a Scrapper in those days).  It was having Aid Self, and being able to use it in combat(!) without getting interrupted(!), that allowed me to pull off the Whiskey Tango Foxtrot stunts of being able to hold the aggro of FIVE RIKTI MAGUS on me while waiting for the "cavalry" to arrive after making a circuit around the bowl of the Rikti Mothership on raids.

 

The first time I did it, people were gobsmacked to see that I was still alive (and kicking!) underneath that dogpile of Rikti Magus aggro.

The second time I did it, people who saw me do it the first time were honestly impressed that it wasn't a fluke that I could do that.

The third time I did it ... during the same raid as the second time(!) ... I got my reputation (and changed my title to it) of being The Extraordinary Death Defying Redlynne and was ALWAYS welcome to join Mothership Raids on Virtue.

 

Because Rikti Magus were my Natural Prey ... 😈

2 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

2 hours ago, TheOtherTed said:

In contrast, Super Reflexes offers defense, more defense, a little resistance, yet more defense

And capped defense debuff resistance. Something Nin doesn't come close to. SR doesn't experience cascading defense failure like Nin does.

THIS.

 

When other Defense based powersets begin to crumble under the onslaught of Defense Debuffing ... Super Reflexes just keeps right on powering through with barely a loss to the protection scheme.  For other powersets to achieve the same outcome, they need excess Defense above and beyond the softcap (so as to "soak" a debuff hit without falling below the softcap).

[Haijinx]

SR's weakness isn't lack of a self heal.

 

Its weakness is AOE protection.  Its barely paper armor for scrappers vs AOE until 35.  Which helps explain why it isn't more popular.    (Looks like Sent also) 

 

Stalkers less so when hidden at least but still a concern. 

 

Tanks and Brutes get better progression.  

[Fan Mail]

My Scrapper, MA/SR, from Live, around Issue 5 maybe, didn't notice.  Then again, I wasn't near the player then that I am now.  Would probably, definitely notice the LONG wait for AOE DEF now.  10-15 years on a dude really makes a difference.  /shrug

Edited January 8, 2020 by tafilr

[Haijinx]

Just now, tafilr said:

My Scrapper, MA/SR, from Live, around Issue 5 maybe, didn't notice.  Then again, I'm wasn't near the player then that I am now.  Would probably, definitely notice the LONG wait for AOE DEF now. 

It also competes with WP in a lot of concepts.  Tough competing with Quick Recovery.