Charging for Powerlevelling to level 50

[DR_Mechano]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

Sorry to offend. 

Reasons why a good player might not know where PI is: 

1. Only played redside and switched over at 50. 

2. Really just loved ITF and kept doing them repeatedly. 
3. Loved MSRs and did those and other mission contacts in RWZ. Maybe did an ITF, too. 

4. Loved doing Numina, various shard TFs and just never got around to PI. 
5. Always used mission tp, so never realized there were ferries that went to PI, Talos, IP and Striga. 

While all of these are plausible, they just aren't terribly likely. And candidly, if you are a new player, it stands to reason that you have much to learn and probably aren't that good of a player yet. There's a learning curve for everyone. I still learn things that make me a better player, every day! 

I do confess that my attitude towards such a player stems from a time when folks would HAVE to go to PI just to get level 45 and 50 enhancements. That's where Ghost Falcon was and is. You'd have to do a quick mission for him to show you his SOs available. So, before IOs came on the scene, anyone who was level 50 that didn't know where PI was had to have been powerleveled or running around without ANY enhancements for at least 7 levels.  (aside from various drops - but no converters back then.) 

 

Hey I completely forgot how to make and craft IOs when I first came back to this game. I've often said that I've forgotten more about City of Heroes than I ever remembered from WoW and considering I was, for a time, in a hardcore raiding guild (5 nights a week, 6 hours each time...yes it was hellish, yes my sleep pattern was awful because I was working, coming home, farming and then raiding, getting 5 hours sleep and then the cycle would repeat itself Monday to Friday with me just crashing out on weekends), that's a lot of stuff I've forgotten about WoW and I've probably forgotten more about city of Heroes.

[Grouchybeast]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

Charging for power-leveling in global channels.. that, I disagree with. It seems a slippery slope towards violating the code of conduct and other nefarious activities such as exploitation.

That seems like a very weak link to me.  By that logic, selling purple IOs on the Auction House is equally a slippery slope towards violating the code of conduct, because someone paid me inf to let them bypass the time it would take to earn a hundred merits.  Exchanging in-game currency for in-game items or services is clearly inside the rules.

[Troo]

I hear ya. Selling IOs on the black market though is not as open to exploit as player to player transactions. Maybe I missed the in-game services..

[DR_Mechano]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

I challenge you to go to the AE building in Atlas Park, and look and see how many lowbies are in there begging for somebody to let them in on a fire farm. Several of them, standing around, not doing anything, but hitting Enter, Up Arrow Key and Enter, "Anyone have a Fire Farm I can join!  🙂  " with the cheesy smiley face. You would be hard pressed to find a time when there are none.

You know what's funny...just today I broadcast offering to have someone sit with me through a fire farm (just the one person) and it actually took me 5 minutes to even get a tell asking if they could come. Currently in Atlas AE and I count 4 spines/fire brutes (including myself) and one person getting farmed. Yes there was one person asking for a PL but they walked off when it was clear I wasn't paying attention to the game and none of the other spines/fire farmers took him on.

 

Funny thing is fire farmers or farmers in general will farm people up out of the kindness of our heart, we don't ask for inf most of the time (in fact I've seen it exactly 4 times), it's usually to have people banter whilst we're farming. HOWEVER if we're farming for influence, that's mostly done solo since teams eat into our drop rates and influence gain.

 

Plus if they're anything like me, being ASKED for a PL gets your back up. I offer it as a service at times when I feel like it, I'm not here to PL people all the time, especially when I'm in farming so asking me in local gets me a sideways glance. Now a tell may actually be a different story, depending on how they asked.

[Ukase]

2 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

Plus if they're anything like me, being ASKED for a PL gets your back up. I offer it as a service at times when I feel like it, I'm not here to PL people all the time, especially when I'm in farming so asking me in local gets me a sideways glance. Now a tell may actually be a different story, depending on how they asked.

I'm with you there! If I choose to give, whether it's time, inf, or whatever, it needs to be my idea, not someone else's. 

[Ukase]

22 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

 

Hey I completely forgot how to make and craft IOs when I first came back to this game. I've often said that I've forgotten more about City of Heroes than I ever remembered from WoW and considering I was, for a time, in a hardcore raiding guild (5 nights a week, 6 hours each time...yes it was hellish, yes my sleep pattern was awful because I was working, coming home, farming and then raiding, getting 5 hours sleep and then the cycle would repeat itself Monday to Friday with me just crashing out on weekends), that's a lot of stuff I've forgotten about WoW and I've probably forgotten more about city of Heroes.

The invention system has a tutorial! Of course some might forget some of it, or all of it. It has been a number of years! That's an entirely different scenario. It took me more than a minute to learn it back in live, and it took me a few minutes to re-learn it when the game came back. 

[Corruption]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

There are rules that are adhered to, folks don't actually get to do whatever they want. 

 

@Corruption You could answer the direct question asked. 'Are you okay with exchanging real money for powerleveling?'

I can answer that question. For some, it may be a bit of a Kobayashi Maru were one is easily stuck between hypocrisy and violating the code of conduct. (metaphor attempt)

 

No one is suggesting it's okay to break the rules. Personally, I don't care if someone exchanged real money for in game rewards, however I understand it can be abused and why it's against the rules. I'm completely okay with that.

 

What everyone is arguing with you about is you equating exchanging in game money with exchanging real money. They're not the same thing and I don't think you'll convince anyone otherwise.

[Solarverse]

52 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

You know what's funny...just today I broadcast offering to have someone sit with me through a fire farm (just the one person) and it actually took me 5 minutes to even get a tell asking if they could come. Currently in Atlas AE and I count 4 spines/fire brutes (including myself) and one person getting farmed. Yes there was one person asking for a PL but they walked off when it was clear I wasn't paying attention to the game and none of the other spines/fire farmers took him on.

 

Funny thing is fire farmers or farmers in general will farm people up out of the kindness of our heart, we don't ask for inf most of the time (in fact I've seen it exactly 4 times), it's usually to have people banter whilst we're farming. HOWEVER if we're farming for influence, that's mostly done solo since teams eat into our drop rates and influence gain.

 

Plus if they're anything like me, being ASKED for a PL gets your back up. I offer it as a service at times when I feel like it, I'm not here to PL people all the time, especially when I'm in farming so asking me in local gets me a sideways glance. Now a tell may actually be a different story, depending on how they asked.

I'm the same way. On the rare occasion I farm, I purposely will pick people who aren't begging for PLs. I'll send out a broadcast and however many take me up on it, is how many I let on. I have a LOT of players on ignore, pretty much anyone I catch begging for PLs on LFG chat. It has wracked up a LOT...and I still catch 2 or 3 a day to ignore. It's almost never ending. But, I do not mind inviting people to help out a few levels if they have some cooth about it...IE, staying off of LFG chat with that nonsense. I do not ignore players asking in Local at the AE building, I feel that is being cool about it and I have respect for them. But yes, I pretty much feel the same way that you do about it.

[Troo]

@Corruption Thanks for answering.

 

I think you'd be surprised how many agree that 'charging for power-leveling' is lame and similarly that broadcasting it on global channels is not okay. Reasons and justifications for those opinions vary.

My reason is my own, which I shared. It is not intended to 'convince anyone'. It is merely presented to spark discussion and clarify the basis of my opinion. 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Troo

[macskull]

4 hours ago, Troo said:

I hear ya. Selling IOs on the black market though is not as open to exploit as player to player transactions. Maybe I missed the in-game services..

How exactly are player-to-player transactions open to exploit?

[GM Tempest]

Please note that charging Real World Money for anything ingame is a violation of our CoC (seen here, section 6 under Conduct Guidelines) and will result in a ban for the offending account(s).

Edited January 16, 2020 by CR Tempest

[roleki]

Are there really THAT many newbs to CoH?  I been back 6 months now, and I've yet to chat in-game with anyone who hadn't played on Live.  It could be that all the newbs in my proximity are severely introverted? 

 

But, there MUST be newbs, based on the number of times I've been street hunting and had people swoop in to nuke mobs I clearly had handled, or the number of people who go AFK in the Portal parking lot, preventing mobs from spawning.  

 

I played Live from Issues 1 through 18, though that last year I barely put any time in, so it really was like 10 years between logins on Live and HC.  I have to look up on ParagonWiki how to get to zones ALL THE TIME because WTF is a Night Ward and where is Crey's Folly again?   

 

It's not because I'm a newbie, it's because I'm an old.  Though, I at least remembered how to get to PI.

 

ETA: holy crap, between retail boxes and subscription fees, I slopped out over 1200.00 for this game.  Not to mention the PhysX card I bought because the game I was really into at the time implemented PhysX support.  

Edited January 16, 2020 by roleki

[ZacKing]

15 hours ago, Solarverse said:

It's also a presumption to assume that all these people who have no idea where to go or how to get there don't know for all these innocent reasons. I'm willing to bet my very life, and hope a truck takes me out and my heart stops beating and say that more often than not, somebody who does not know how to get to PI at level 50, doesn't know because they were PLed all the way to 50 and not because they simply just never went there. That is how sure I am that a majority of players who can't find their way as level 50's is due to them being PLed to 50. And I am also willing to bet, despite how people on these forums are responding, that the majority of players in the game would indeed raise an eyebrow when a player who is level 50, says they can't find PI.

 

You always bring up this rare instance of things being the opposite of what people are saying on these boards. Yes, people are generalizing here...and they are rightly doing so. I'm pretty sure every single person on these boards know that not everyone who can't find PI as a level 50 is a Power Leveled n00b. However, since we are generalizing here, I am willing to say it's a safe bet that a good 75% of the players are indeed n00bz who were invited to a farm team, they got hooked on the free door sitting extreme XP, and couldn't pull themselves to leave the AE building until somebody else PLed them to 50.

 

I challenge you to go to the AE building in Atlas Park, and look and see how many lowbies are in there begging for somebody to let them in on a fire farm. Several of them, standing around, not doing anything, but hitting Enter, Up Arrow Key and Enter, "Anyone have a Fire Farm I can join!  🙂  " with the cheesy smiley face. You would be hard pressed to find a time when there are none.

 

But yes, we are well aware that there will ALWAYS be those instances where a player is new, leveled normally, but for whatever reason the game never took them to PI. I have also seen level 50's who join my Positron teams, ask me how to get to Steel Canyon...

Yeah running into some fresh person to the game who only logged in once who has zero inf paying for a PL is way more rare.  I've never seen one since this game came back nor have I run into anyone 50 who doesn't know where PI is.  Trying to paint majority in AE as stupid new people begging for PLs does not pass the sniff test.   From what I see every day, majority are people leveling up alts.  You're trying to paint this as the rule for everyone when it's more like the very small exception.  if people aren't living up to your whacky standards for whatever reason, don't team with them.  Better yet, start your own server and turn off AE, XP boosts, side kicking, notoriety settings, double XP weekends and have fun your way. 

[ZacKing]

13 hours ago, Solarverse said:

I'm the same way. On the rare occasion I farm, I purposely will pick people who aren't begging for PLs. I'll send out a broadcast and however many take me up on it, is how many I let on. I have a LOT of players on ignore, pretty much anyone I catch begging for PLs on LFG chat. It has wracked up a LOT...and I still catch 2 or 3 a day to ignore. It's almost never ending. But, I do not mind inviting people to help out a few levels if they have some cooth about it...IE, staying off of LFG chat with that nonsense. I do not ignore players asking in Local at the AE building, I feel that is being cool about it and I have respect for them. But yes, I pretty much feel the same way that you do about it.

Wait... you're one of the people going on and on how bad PLing in AE is and you're doing it yourself??   Also what exactly is begging?  "LF AE Farm" is no different than "Blaster LFG".  It's people looking for a team of like minded people to play how they want.

[Troo]

10 hours ago, macskull said:

How exactly are player-to-player transactions open to exploit?

Gimme 50M and I'll level you up. Then walking away.

Level me up and I'll give you 50M. Then walking away.

Giving someone your login so they can level you up while you're doing something else. Coming back to a cleaned out account.

 

If it can't be done in a trade window or the auction house it's exploitable and is done at a players own risk.

Unwanted player behaviors unfortunately gobble up way too much of a dev/support team's time. Even it happening just once or twice is an issue and gobbles up time.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Troo

[ShardWarrior]

21 minutes ago, Troo said:

Gimme 50M and I'll level you up. Then walking away.

Level me up and I'll give you 50M. Then walking away.

Giving someone your login so they can level you up while you're doing something else. Coming back to a cleaned out account.

 

If it can't be done in a trade window or the auction house it's exploitable and is done at a players own risk.

Unwanted player behaviors unfortunately gobble up way too much of a dev/support team's time. Even it happening just once or twice is an issue and gobbles up time.

Your first two examples do not hold up to your own definition of what an exploit is as both have to be done via the trade window. 

[Snarky]

Why?  Are we really that bored?  I’m gonna go craft enhancers. Make a ton of Inf.  Run storylines on a experience nerfed toon. Then maybe tonight have someone PL a new alt i havent even thought of yet. Without advertising. Or paying. Because that is just how we roll on Everlasting-Homecoming. Cheers

[jshmoe1236123]

3 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Why?  Are we really that bored?  I’m gonna go craft enhancers. Make a ton of Inf.  Run storylines on a experience nerfed toon. Then maybe tonight have someone PL a new alt i havent even thought of yet. Without advertising. Or paying. Because that is just how we roll on Everlasting-Homecoming. Cheers

Whoa!  Did you check with the How To Play Police?  They can be real sticklers.  

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

Yeah running into some fresh person to the game who only logged in once who has zero inf paying for a PL is way more rare.  I've never seen one since this game came back nor have I run into anyone 50 who doesn't know where PI is.  Trying to paint majority in AE as stupid new people begging for PLs does not pass the sniff test.   From what I see every day, majority are people leveling up alts.  You're trying to paint this as the rule for everyone when it's more like the very small exception.  if people aren't living up to your whacky standards for whatever reason, don't team with them.  Better yet, start your own server and turn off AE, XP boosts, side kicking, notoriety settings, double XP weekends and have fun your way. 

You do realize there are people handing out free pl's right? Like, almost all of them. 

 

Also, clearly you have not read the things I have said about PLing, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to engage with me. Way to bulldog your way in there though!

Edited January 16, 2020 by Solarverse

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

Wait... you're one of the people going on and on how bad PLing in AE is and you're doing it yourself??   Also what exactly is begging?  "LF AE Farm" is no different than "Blaster LFG".  It's people looking for a team of like minded people to play how they want.

K...

[quixoteprog]

1 hour ago, ZacKing said:

Wait... you're one of the people going on and on how bad PLing in AE is and you're doing it yourself??   Also what exactly is begging?  "LF AE Farm" is no different than "Blaster LFG".  It's people looking for a team of like minded people to play how they want.

This is not exactly true. Spamming FLG to find a fire farm is pretty much the same as using it to do DFB. That IS true.

 

But there are people who panhandle in the AE mission room. It is nothing I would call a problem. I just don't understand it. Random guys will come up and ask to door sit my mission. I probably should not find it annoying, but yeah, kinda? Not because it would cost me that much. It wouldn't. It's just that fire farming doesn't require ANY kind of special resources to start. There are TONS of tutorials out there telling people how to do it. You can create a second account and make up your own guy and FF yourself until your hearts content.

 

There are challenges in running at +4/x8 with solo bosses on and in getting your clear times down and optimizing your inf./hour. That is as much why I do it as to finance my alts.

 

But creating a second account and getting a farmer to 50 who can PL your main account toons up to 30ish is a breeze. If you are impatient with your level progression, even with XP boosts and patrol XP and mission groups then why not  just make up a FF of your own?

[ShardWarrior]

46 minutes ago, quixoteprog said:

But there are people who panhandle in the AE mission room.

Yes there are, however if there are people like those commenting in this thread ostracizing and berating them about using the LFG channel to find a farm, what else would you like them to do other than hang out in AE?  Seems to me that is where a select few here would like to relegate them for not playing a way they like.

 

 

[GM Tempest]

Please be civil.

[ZacKing]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

K...

Yeah I know its hard for some people to hear a different viewpoint that doesn't jive with their weird worldview.  Play your way and let others play their way.

[Solarverse]

43 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Yes there are, however if there are people like those commenting in this thread ostracizing and berating them about using the LFG channel to find a farm, what else would you like them to do other than hang out in AE?  Seems to me that is where a select few here would like to relegate them for not playing a way they like.

 

 

I offered a valid suggestion. It would be beneficial to everyone if we had an AE channel to help alleviate the clutter in LFG chat. I would love to take all these people off ignore, but until the LFG channel can be freed from the constant request for fire farms, I have no choice but to shut them off with the ignore function.