Revisit the Energy Melee nerfs

[Leogunner]

1 hour ago, 0th Power said:

Also, I have an /energy dominator and I'm not a big fan of the stored energy mechanic.  Not that it didn't make the set better, but it was just one other think I had to be mindful of.  (I don't enjoy the water blast or street fighting mechanic either)  I like the simpleness of the older sets.

This is likely the main drawback as my Gravity/Energy dom has Impact and Energy Store are mechanics I have to keep track of.

 

BUT...neither require much attention and isn't required for the set to be used.  You can just ignore Impact, for example, or just use them as Scrapper "crits" that occasionally happens when you click the release energy attacks.

[Rylas]

52 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

Okay, so...

 

EM can't be the mondo ST damage dealer that it used to be. There's simply no way to make that a reasonable choice without completely screwing over PvP balance thanks to it's tendency towards one-on-one combat and Spike-Centric damage shutting people down as quickly as possible.

I thought powers could work differently in PVE and PVP. If they can, why not have a PVE version that's the ST king by a strong (but not OP) margin?

 

52 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

So how about we give the set a Gimmick?

I'm not a fan of gimmicky sets. Rad Melee would be the exception because it's gimmick doesn't require much attention. Not to mention, it seems like lot of adjusting around a set that was extremely straight forward in the past which seems a bit stretchy for the Cottage Rule. But I'll play along if it turns out to be the only way to improve EM's performance. 

 

I'm not sure if a 50% chance is high enough for EP and Barrage. With those two and WH (if you're lucky enough for it to hit 5 targets every time) you'd have to cycle EP and Barage 3 times and WH once or twice.  On average, of course. If you don't miss. That's a lot to go through before you get any payoff. And that's if you refrain from your big hitters (two of which sound like they're keeping their long animation times) to build up 5 as quick as you can. And does Bone Smasher stay the same? 

 

As gimmicks go, I think I'd find the Momentum aspect of TW easier to tolerate, and I'm not really crazy about the Momentum mechanic. At least just one attack sets you up for way more carnage. Here, you're building a lot before you get 1 (ONE!) Release. That's a hard sell. 

 

Currently, it sounds like you'd be taking a set that was fast and straight forward, to slower and methodical. 

[Steampunkette]

3 minutes ago, Rylas said:

I thought powers could work differently in PVE and PVP. If they can, why not have a PVE version that's the ST king by a strong (but not OP) margin?

 

I'm not a fan of gimmicky sets. Rad Melee would be the exception because it's gimmick doesn't require much attention. Not to mention, it seems like lot of adjusting around a set that was extremely straight forward in the past which seems a bit stretchy for the Cottage Rule. But I'll play along if it turns out to be the only way to improve EM's performance. 

 

I'm not sure if a 50% chance is high enough for EP and Barrage. With those two and WH (if you're lucky enough for it to hit 5 targets every time) you'd have to cycle EP and Barage 3 times and WH once or twice.  On average, of course. If you don't miss. That's a lot to go through before you get any payoff. And that's if you refrain from your big hitters (two of which sound like they're keeping their long animation times) to build up 5 as quick as you can. And does Bone Smasher stay the same? 

 

As gimmicks go, I think I'd find the Momentum aspect of TW easier to tolerate, and I'm not really crazy about the Momentum mechanic. At least just one attack sets you up for way more carnage. Here, you're building a lot before you get 1 (ONE!) Release. That's a hard sell. 

 

Currently, it sounds like you'd be taking a set that was fast and straight forward, to slower and methodical. 

WH has a target cap of 10, and it's not -that- hard to saturate. Especially for Tankers in the coming update...

 

10% over 10 attempts you've got high odds of getting at least 3 stacks in a given cast.

 

Though I did mean to add Bone Smasher to the roster of Residual Energy builders.

 

That said: No reason not to start the fight with the big hitters. They'll recharge at some point while you're building stacks or after you've got stacks built.

 

As far as Momentum... That would require having a separate power built for every "Fast" attack in the powerset. That's how Momentum works, by doubling the amount of behind the scenes effort. You can't change a power's attack speed or animation on the fly, it's got to be baked into the individual power.

[Galaxy Brain]

Hm, what if the Build-Up in the set were changed to "Overclock"? EM is unique in that it has Energy Transfer, which iirc is the only attack that costs HP to use. Why not add that as a toggle where you get Build-Up boosts and +Rech, but at the cost of draining HP per attack?

 

(Just throwing stuff at the wall here)

[Rylas]

19 minutes ago, Steampunkette said:

WH has a target cap of 10, and it's not -that- hard to saturate. Especially for Tankers in the coming update...

 

10% over 10 attempts you've got high odds of getting at least 3 stacks in a given cast.

Is it 10 on live for Brutes as well? I seem to recall getting only 5, but I may not be paying good attention.

 

While I'm not a statistician, I would think the average payoff of 10% out of 10 hits would be... 1. 

Quote

Though I did mean to add Bone Smasher to the roster of Residual Energy builders.

 

That said: No reason not to start the fight with the big hitters. They'll recharge at some point while you're building stacks or after you've got stacks built.

 

As far as Momentum... That would require having a separate power built for every "Fast" attack in the powerset. That's how Momentum works, by doubling the amount of behind the scenes effort. You can't change a power's attack speed or animation on the fly, it's got to be baked into the individual power.

The only reason I bring up Momentum is that it pays off faster and longer. Not because of the mechanics behind it, but because it still makes the set perform higher for a good percentage of the time you're fighting. The current percentage numbers your proposing for stacking up charge sound like slower pay off. How often could one expect to see Release activations and to what degree is that really improving overall output. 

 

You didn't address my earlier question about PVP and PVE power differences. Am I under the wrong impression that powers can be treated differently between the two? And if they can, why would it not be possible for EM to be the "mondo ST damage dealer that it used to be?" From earlier posts in the thread, it sounds like the original version of EM wouldn't even be a top contender now.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Rylas

[Haijinx]

The set already has an annoyingly long animating Total Focus

 

ET could be reduced for sure.

[Steampunkette]

29 minutes ago, Rylas said:

Is it 10 on live for Brutes as well? I seem to recall getting only 5, but I may not be paying good attention.

 

While I'm not a statistician, I would think the average payoff of 10% out of 10 hits would be... 1. 

The only reason I bring up Momentum is that it pays off faster and longer. Not because of the mechanics behind it, but because it still makes the set perform higher for a good percentage of the time you're fighting. The current percentage numbers your proposing for stacking up charge sound like slower pay off. How often could one expect to see Release activations and to what degree is that really improving overall output. 

 

You didn't address my earlier question about PVP and PVE power differences. Am I under the wrong impression that powers can be treated differently between the two? And if they can, why would it not be possible for EM to be the "mondo ST damage dealer that it used to be?" From earlier posts in the thread, it sounds like the original version of EM wouldn't even be a top contender now.

Not exactly... The odds of getting 10% in 1 roll is one in 10, but the rolls are each independent, rather than linked. So while the odds of getting 1 on a d10 rolled 10 times -seem- like 10% x 10 = 1, but it's actually closer to 66%.

 

https://www.omnicalculator.com/statistics/odds Just fill out the first and second spaces with 1 and 9 respectively. You can also hit "Advanced" to see more possibilities.

 

Each roll is independent but we're looking at total chances of missing in a row. A streak, essentially, which at 10 rolls comes out to 34%. While each roll has a 10% chance to hit, it doesn't work out to a 1 in 10 being 100% chance of getting a 1.

 

Once you get to about 3 checks in a row the odds start looking more 40/60 of rolling a streak-breaker. And since you're essentially dealing with 10 checks that's anywhere from 1 in a row to 10 in a row.

 

You'll still get at least one almost every time, no doubt. But often enough you'll get 3. And here and there you'll throw a Whirling Hands and win the lotto to get 5.

 

The only thing this encourages you to do is start a fight with a Whirling Hands, see how many stacks you get, use Barrage and EP to build up a couple stacks, and then use Build Up when you've got 5 stacks for the bigger hits or to toss ET or TF for the added AoE to clear mobs faster.

 

But if you'd feel more comfortable with a 15-20% chance I wouldn't say "No"

Edited October 3, 2019 by Steampunkette

[Zenex]

13 hours ago, Rylas said:

14 hours ago, Steampunkette said:

Okay, so...

 

EM can't be the mondo ST damage dealer that it used to be. There's simply no way to make that a reasonable choice without completely screwing over PvP balance thanks to it's tendency towards one-on-one combat and Spike-Centric damage shutting people down as quickly as possible.

I thought powers could work differently in PVE and PVP. If they can, why not have a PVE version that's the ST king by a strong (but not OP) margin?

Returning ET's original animation would actually do the opposite, due to the screwed up mechanics put in place by castle ET would be doing less damage in pvp, but fixing pvp is another can of worms.

[Golden Azrael]

I don't mind the long showy animation.  But that and Total Focus (on teams) can be after the Lord Mayor's show.

 

On my own.  Not the end of the world but slightly quicker would be nice.  Shave a second off.

 

The new out of combat snipe is definitely quicker.  The in combat snipe is loads quicker.  It makes the gameplay more 'teh snappy.'

 

I remember a friend playing EM.  It was a solid, hard hitting single target set.  Nerfing it?  The danger in nerfs is you can make something less compelling in trying to 'fix' it.  The tricks is try and keep something compelling while keeping true to what made it 'cool' in the first place.

 

In the case of EM?  Just make it more so.  And a bit of splash on EM or nudging up Whirling's AoE dam would be hardly game breaking?

 

Stun, too, don't take it.  Why stun something that you can empty of HPs?  Stun, rather add high dam and AoE element to it to make it more compelling choice.  Imagine a stun that makes a mob of 5 wander around disorientated.

 

I don't mind the pom poms animation of ET except for it's length.  Need to be a bit more snappy.  I would't opposed to using the Power Thrust animation on it...or even Stun.  Often thought Power Thrust was one of the best animations in the game that needed a more worth level of animation, AoE element and disorient.  ie.  I could see it as a Tier 9 power.  You put that punch into a group?  BOOM!  5 go flying.  Extreme damage.  Disorient.  AoE splash damage.  

 

I like Thunderstrike.  Bit of AoE splash damage.  Mobs get sent flying.  I like that, personally.  High dam.

 

Azrael.

[0th Power]

10 hours ago, Zenex said:

Returning ET's original animation would actually do the opposite, due to the screwed up mechanics put in place by castle ET would be doing less damage in pvp, but fixing pvp is another can of worms.

I don't pvp enough to know the mechanics of it, but if the original animation wouldn't make it better, why not change it back w/o doing anything else (except maybe increasing total focus back to a mag 4 stun, mainly for my blaster.)?

Edited October 4, 2019 by 0th Power

[tidge]

I vote NO on adding gimmicks to Energy Melee. (I would also vote NO to make any changes to the Stuns component in PvE).

 

Energy Melee should be returned to the top tier of single-target attacks for generating (and keeping) THREAT. In my mind that means faster attacks (ehem Energy Transfer) to switch between targets if necessary and (generally) harder hitting single-target attacks at the expense of a mediocre (but not pathetic) AoE.

 

If Energy Melee isn't going to end up at the top of single-target damage, it should at least be at or near the top in terms of achieving a reliable single-target attack chain that does respectable damage without having to resort to Hasten (or Incarnates).

[Infinitum]

I like the idea of an attack triggering a momentum mechanic to decrease the animation time of ET.  Combine that with a not dismal whirling hands and I'd buy that for a dollar.

[Golden Azrael]

On 6/6/2019 at 10:14 PM, Rylas said:

 

Malignancy implies ill will. If they were apathetic towards EM woes, that's not ill will. It's just not caring. But who knows, maybe they're hands were tied on it.

 

In these situations, it's best to question judgement, not motive. Even better still, not to stew over past decisions. Especially when this current team has been pretty great about hearing the communities concerns. I think good, solid, number-based evidence for change is the best tool we have for seeing any changes to EM. I'm hoping a dev team member might drop in to comment on the chances for that happening, and if we can avoid letting this thread go the way of the Rage thread, we'll be doing a big favor for ourselves.

Ultimately, Paragon and their Owners (NC) were in it to make money.  That can have an effect on creative decisions.  IT's in the past.  And in the past, it will remain.

 

And, with SCORE/Homecoming you see something different.  The actual gaming community 'gets it'.  Some of the chances already made (see issue '25/26etc') changes based off a player's perspective rather than a studio's pressure to e.g.. Time sink you.

 

eg.  Bases.  Free.  No grind anymore.  Veteran levels (which I like) add a 'post 50' sense of levelling and a fair return in Emp Merits/Threads for you time invested.  XP boosting so you are in charge of your levelling (which means you get through the game without the grind and can try...MORE alts.)  

 

When it comes to nerfs.  The tank changes have a global picture relative to other ATs.  ie.  1st of all you have to fix the Tank AT in general before you get around to the quagmire of individual sets (of which, many are flawed and need individual attention and a simple swap Tier 1 and 2 won't do it.)  So, Tanks get a dam boost and higher cap, Brutes get their's trimmed slightly.  Tanks get more tanks and brutes get to escape the building with their 'fat' diet relatively intact.

 

So, specific changes re: Energy.  

 

Let's take SS/Fire as an example.  SS/Fire is a tank combo which has 'so much.'  You get Rage which boosts SS to an insane degree and you can x2 and even x3 briefly (if I remember correctly from my old SS/Shield Brute....) overlap it.  Basically, this has the effect of leaving other Tanks, damage wise, in the dust.  BU for 15 sec out of every minute isn't the same as having 'teh RagUR' for 2 mins.'  If that wasn't enough?  Fire has the damage Auras to get to this, so RAGE is boost the damage auras on top of it being a damage aura.  AND if that wasn't enough you have the ridiculous 'BURN' which allows a SS/Fire tank to drag aggro to a spot and 'burn' it do death.  In seconds.

 

By way of comparison?  My SR/SJustice tank has to press, press, press, press, press, press (hand cramp....) it's way to achieve the same effect and it takes much longer to kill stuff.  Even as an incarnate (bar the 'Mighty!' punch.)  No Rage.  No Auras.  No end return.  No health return.  No BURN patch.

 

So, there IS disparity between Tank sets and they won't address that THIS time.

 

Nerf Fire/SS then?

 

'No.'

 

I think bringing things into parity can be a more creative solution.

 

Finally, then.  Let's bring this to Energy melee.  Using the 'fat' diet tank as evidenced above.  Let each set get their on its own merits.  

 

Energy melee should have an energy equivalent of 'Rage' that replaces BU.  What do we call it?  Energy Storm!  Energy Barrage!   For 2 minutes you harness your inner elemental rage and channel  energy into your attacks.  2 minutes.  1 stack.  No Crash.  You can't overlap it.  It replaces BU completely.  It gives you sustained to hit, damage AND?  End drain and a disorientating effect on mobs such is the dizzying 'whirl' of your attacks.  You even get a 10% speed boost for 2 mins. 😛

 

Energy Well.  (There is an emote for this effect)  You sink your hands into the floor and drain energy from teh Earth itself to disorient and energy smash foes to their inner core.  This is your 'Burn' equivalent.)  It could be Whirling Hands.  But it will need a good passover to give it the same oomph advantage Burn has.  I'm saying each tanking set should have an AoE 'Burn' that shakes up the mob.  For it to be whirling hands.  Damage needs to be upped to high.  Maybe a DoT after initial damage with a dollop of Disorient.

 

Rage is a creative mechanic.  But with BU, you get the feeling they ran out of time to give each tank a creative mechanic so just put in the generic BU for other types.

 

So, Energy Melee can be brought into broad dam sync (or the disparity reduced) and can still be specific a slow and heavy hitter (which tanks are) with some revisions to the numbers.  That and make En Transfer hit fast with 'some' splash damage.

 

I don't think Energy Melee is unique in needing attention.  Ice, Stone seem very 'old' compared to eg.  Titans weapons.

 

In the same way blasters were broken?  That fix to snipe and the self buff aura have completely transformed Energy blaster, ice blaster, fire to a degree and elec isn't too bad (though I'd swap out Short Circuit for the harder hitting elec attack which is in the Sentinel set.)

 

The broad AT tank changes is just the beginning.

 

They're listening.  We'll need to get the tank patch live 1st and keep the pressure on for eg. Energy Melee review.  But I suspect it won't be the only one ripe for change.

 

Azrael.

 

PS.

 

"I vote NO on adding gimmicks to Energy Melee. (I would also vote NO to make any changes to the Stuns component in PvE).

 

Energy Melee should be returned to the top tier of single-target attacks for generating (and keeping) THREAT. In my mind that means faster attacks (ehem Energy Transfer) to switch between targets if necessary and (generally) harder hitting single-target attacks at the expense of a mediocre (but not pathetic) AoE.

 

If Energy Melee isn't going to end up at the top of single-target damage, it should at least be at or near the top in terms of achieving a reliable single-target attack chain that does respectable damage without having to resort to Hasten (or Incarnates)."

 

I agree with the basic premise of 'fast and hard.'   There's no reason each tank can't specialise.  That was probably the original intent.  But when you're stuck in the air with Total Focus and the rest of the team are onto the next mob...you know that probably needs fixing.  

 

Fast and hard?  Why not.  That's its remit.  Hero 1 seems to manage it.  As does Overdrive NPC who seems to hit alike a truck.

 

There can be broad changes to the AT, specialisation but some parity brought with some innovation on top to make each tank 'more so.'  I think all that's possible.

 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Golden Azrael

[BrandX]

Which is why I suggest just giving Total Focus and Energy Transfer animations from Street Justice, while slapping on the pom poms to the fist attacks.

 

Faster attack speed, without being 1.188 second animating attacks.

[Lazarillo]

My general ideal for Energy Melee's single target abilities, which I've honestly thought would be the most fun ever since the animation changes were made way back in the day:

• Give Energy Punch the Heavy Blow animation.  Increase the damage (and associated costs) very slightly to compensate for the new animation being slightly longer.
• Give Stun the "old" Energy Punch animation.  Increase it to Mag. 4 (the same as the "old, old" Total Focus).  Do not increase the damage.  It is now a pure, but powerful, mitigation tool.
• Give Energy Transfer the "old" Stun animation, speeding it up by about 50%.  Given this would also increase its already over-the-top DPA, it should also increase the self-damage component.  The cost of ET has always been too easy to mitigate, IMO.  This (potentially) makes it a true double-edged sword.
• Give Total Focus the "old" Energy Transfer animation.  This also speeds it up a bit, and, frankly, the current ET animation looks a hell of a lot more like a "Total Focus" than an "Energy Transfer" to me.  This buffs the DPA, but not in a completely out-of-line way, I think.

I also had the idea of fixing Whirling Hands by having it do a small AoE centered on everyone.  This would increase the range slightly, and potentially do more damage but only if a large number of enemies were gathered around.  I was never sure how practical such would be, though.  And then HC did a similar mechanic with the Sentinel version of Beam Rifle...

[BrandX]

I never felt Whirling Hands needed fixing.  However, I never thought Energy Melee was supposed to be some great AOE set and Whirling Hands was good enough 🙂

Now, only if they'd give me Whirling Hands instead of Stun on a Stalker.

 

Still prefer my suggestion of Crushing Uppercut for Total Focus and Spinning Strike for Energy Transfer, but I'd just like some nice animation for the attacks, but I can see people preferring some straight forward ones instead.

 

Still think TF and ET could use a reduction in recharge time as well.  Energy Melee has THREE attacks that have 20 second recharges. 😞

[FUBARczar]

On 6/6/2019 at 9:33 PM, MalphiteMeIRL said:

Part of me wants them to keep the energy transfer animation.. but make it hit even harder. >_>

 

It's such a cool animation, but I totally get the desire to have it swapped back. Especially since I believe it's possible to change numbers in PvE vs PvP now.

I remember my suggestion way back when was to - 

 

¤ Use old ET quick animation for Stun and add dmg and/or -res for knocking the opponent off guard.....    or perform like Storm Kick and add +Def.... 

¤ Use Stun animation for Total Focus and have it act like Eagles Claw with a buff,....   or keep TF animation but add AoE like Thunder Strike.

¤ keep new ET unchanged

 

Any which way you slice it, Energy Melee is completely overshadowed by Radiation Melee nowadays and needs an update

[FUBARczar]

On 10/7/2019 at 5:14 PM, Golden Azrael said:

If Energy Melee isn't going to end up at the top of single-target damage, it should at least be at or near the top in terms of achieving a reliable single-target attack chain that does respectable damage without having to resort to Hasten (or Incarnates)."

 

I agree with the basic premise of 'fast and hard.'   There's no reason each tank can't specialise.  That was probably the original intent.  But when you're stuck in the air with Total Focus and the rest of the team are onto the next mob...you know that probably needs fixing.  

 

 

Totally agree with the 1st

 

and the 2nd is soooooooo true

[Menelruin]

I have an NRG/NRG Brute who I visualized as something akin to Cannonball from X-Men:  He can "fake" super strength just in that he hits hard and can put up short-term barriers to tank hits, but can't pick up cars or break the edge of a knife with his bare skin.  NRG/NRG was what seemed to fit that concept best, and Brute and Stalker are the only classes that get BOTH those sets.

 

But anyways.  Due to this, I'd like to also offer support for the idea of just crushing, ST damage WITHOUT gimmicks.  As others have suggested, why not shorten the animation time for TF and ET, and increase the recharge time?  One of the most obnoxious things is that those powers always feel....wasted.  If I walk up to an LT at near full HP, by the time it LANDS the mob is either dead or almost dead from allies.  For AoE, why not just shorten the recharge time for Whirling Hands?  Do you NEED more AoE powers if you can just spam one?

 

For Stun, how powerful of a Stun is it?  Can it stun AVs?  I heard it sucks and skipped it.  If you want a stacking mechanic of some sort, make it so that if a mob is already disoriented from another attack, Stun upgrades to a Hold, maybe?

 

The changes to Dom attacks show that they CAN take a given animation and just speed it up or slow it down as needed, so they don't HAVE to change the specific animation in order to change how it takes to complete.

 

Alternatively, maybe just allow those shorten-interrupt enhancements in TF and ET?

[BrandX]

Interrupt enhancements don't shorten anything.

 

With my EM/Regen Brute, I don't feel Whirling Hands needs a reduction in recharge time.  Not saying I'd be against it, but my only feelings have been that TF and ET could use shorter animations and faster recharge.

 

Should be repeat though, I don't care for the set to gain a gimmick.  I like it for being a ST focused set, that has the disorient on every power (though, I wouldn't be against Bone Smasher also getting a knock down), that gives me a PBAOE attack for some AOE.

[M3z]

ET really needs to animation reverted. It'd add another viable melee set for pvp (right now you really only have rad melee, super strength or psy melee to choose from). Melee are in a bad enough spot as it is, definitely would help them out to have SOMETHING else viable other than super strength for tankers/brutes and psy melee for stalkers/scrappers. Not to mention it was one of my most favorite sets to play back in the day. Funny thing is even if ET's animation got reverted it still wouldn't be as stupid as psy melee where I can do insight greater psy blade crits for 1500+.

[Zenex]

On 10/14/2019 at 9:37 AM, M3z said:

ET really needs to animation reverted. It'd add another viable melee set for pvp (right now you really only have rad melee, super strength or psy melee to choose from). Melee are in a bad enough spot as it is, definitely would help them out to have SOMETHING else viable other than super strength for tankers/brutes and psy melee for stalkers/scrappers. Not to mention it was one of my most favorite sets to play back in the day. Funny thing is even if ET's animation got reverted it still wouldn't be as stupid as psy melee where I can do insight greater psy blade crits for 1500+.

After Castle screwed with pvp long nasty animations got their damage boosted in pvp i.e. fossilize while short high dps powers like seismic smash have their damage lowered. So reducing ETs animation would cause it to lose damage in pvp not gain more, but i've said it before fixing pvp is another can of worms and no i'm not saying keep the 2.6 second animation, i'm in the revert ET boat.

[M3z]

3 hours ago, Zenex said:

After Castle screwed with pvp long nasty animations got their damage boosted in pvp i.e. fossilize while short high dps powers like seismic smash have their damage lowered. So reducing ETs animation would cause it to lose damage in pvp not gain more, but i've said it before fixing pvp is another can of worms and no i'm not saying keep the 2.6 second animation, i'm in the revert ET boat.

I run a competitive arena pvp team, I'm aware of the pvp damage formulas. Reverting the animation would not open a can of worms as you'd say. It's a pretty simple way to make energy melee viable. Most damage comes from procs so the lowered base damage becomes less of a factor(because base damage is not as important). With the fast combo of total focus->energy transfer you'd be doing more damage in a smaller time frame window (compared to current TF->ET combo) giving enemies less time to react and use rebirth/heals etc. This isn't about "fixing pvp" as a whole, it's about giving melees another viable set other than super strength, psi melee, or rad melee.

 

Long story short brutes, tankers, stalkers would all have another viable set for pvp if they reverted the animation. Yes even with the damage formula lowering the damage this set would be very good just having that fast animation follow up to total focus or giving stalkers a fast follow up to assassin strike.

 

[Zenex]

19 hours ago, M3z said:

Reverting the animation would not open a can of worms as you'd say.

I believe you misinterpreted what I meant by that statement. Pvp always needed some adjusting from the start, but when caste went to fix it for i13 he basically did the opposite of what he intended, made even less builds/powerset/AT viable and with the drastic difference between how powers worked in pve vs pvp it drove away pve focused players while simultaneously driving away pvp focused players that had been there. I meant that statement as in pvp needs work be it an attempt to restore pre i13 days or work with what we have thanks to castle, and that is going to be a monumental task.

 

I'm in total agreement with you in wanting it reduced and that reverting ET's animation will make the set better, however some people have been against that in the past claiming it would be to OP for pvp when it wouldn't.

[M3z]

4 hours ago, Zenex said:

I believe you misinterpreted what I meant by that statement. Pvp always needed some adjusting from the start, but when caste went to fix it for i13 he basically did the opposite of what he intended, made even less builds/powerset/AT viable and with the drastic difference between how powers worked in pve vs pvp it drove away pve focused players while simultaneously driving away pvp focused players that had been there. I meant that statement as in pvp needs work be it an attempt to restore pre i13 days or work with what we have thanks to castle, and that is going to be a monumental task.

 

I'm in total agreement with you in wanting it reduced and that reverting ET's animation will make the set better, however some people have been against that in the past claiming it would be to OP for pvp when it wouldn't.

Ah okay, I definitely misunderstood what you were saying my bad. I totally agree that pvp needs to be more i12 style (basically pve value/mechanics oriented).

 

And yeah I also definitely agree that it would not be OP at all, but it would be good and add another viable pvp set for melees (who have virtually none).