Hardcore mode - die once is gameover

[Obus Form]

Someone previously suggested, and I agree, having a Hardcore mode would make the game 99.99% more interesting - forces careful selection/progression of difficulty and selection of the player's or group's mission level/team size selection, careful selection team AT/powerset composition, careful inspiration management (no longer just a tray of reds for brutes/scrappers/blappers/stalkers), and some modicum of planning when approaching mobs of certain daamage types or mobs with CC.

 

I conjecture it would have to follow the same rules as Diablo 3, where :

- Hardcore characters interact only with other hardcore characters so that all players are playing with an equal amount of risk

- Unlike diablo 3, perhaps the auction houses would be linked to non-hardcore AH to decrease system resource load and have an already seeded market in a "new hardcore world"

- Hardcore mode is rewarded for its own type of gameplay (no extra rewards/higher drop rates)

 

 

Thoughts?

 

[Doc_Scorpion]

4 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

Thoughts?

Effectively not possible for the foreseeable future as it would require considerable coding effort, and the current dev team is not large enough to support two-games-in-one.

[Super Atom]

So just do it?

 

You don't need the game to do it for you. Just make a guy and if you die delete him. Put up in your LFG "Hardcore only" or something and there you go.

[Sailboat]

We used to do that in the old Iron Eagles hardcore SG.  At the player's option, the character could be kicked out of the SG and played as a regular non-hardcore character after "death" although not with the hardcore teams any more.  Of course it was an honor system -- if you got whacked solo, I guess you could have pretended it didn't happen and no one would be the wiser.  But we were a tough-minded bunch.

[Sailboat]

One side effect of hardcore was a certain reluctance to buy expensive sets, since they could be "lost" if you died.

[Steampunkette]

It's definitely a thing you could do without Development Time being spent on it, though?

 

I feel like it's such a niche playstyle that as a system it probably shouldn't be carried forward into development. But it's certainly one that could use some social/GM support... like maybe making a "Hardcore Event" where there's a signup to do a series of difficult missions or TFs with someone keeping track of who drops and when. Maybe allow people to rez if someone on the team -has- a rez, but once you hit the Hospital it's over and you're disqualified...

 

Then do up some prize support and encourage people to keep going Hardcore -after- the event has ended to encourage more participation in the playstyle?

[biostem]

How would self-rez powers figure into such a mode?

[Obus Form]

10 minutes ago, biostem said:

How would self-rez powers figure into such a mode?

I figure, it would have to auto disable all rez powers (temp powers, powersets, inspirations) and grey out the "Rez at base/hospital" button after you die.  You could only stay there, dead, licking the pavement.  Then log out.

 

Edit: Or, like diablo 3, when playing "hardcore" mode, the rez power turns into a "prevent death" passive power with a cooldown, or turns into a "you almost died, take no damage for 5 seconds" with a cooldown.  This would give sets with a rez power a useful power instead of a dead power.  It would also allow sets with T9 Moment of Glory type powers... to actually be used in the exact manner for which they were designed.  Also, /Stone Armor: Granite Armor is suddenly useful again.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Obus Form
Prevent-death power

[Call Me Awesome]

This is really a pointless addition... those who want to play that way are perfectly capable of doing so without any changes to the game and the VAST majority who don't aren't affected by it.

 

As Sailboat mentioned there's nothing stopping you from playing that way if you like, and it doesn't take Dev time away from things that everyone else wants.

[Ruin Mage]

Not a chance. Just abide by it youtself.

[Outrider_01]

Doubtful you would get very high in levels, would be a waste of time to delete your character should you actually make it higher.  Better off just starting with a new character and change the name to keep it on the back burner.

 

Otherwise seems like a waste of time and effort.

[Steampunkette]

It's a video game, Outrider...

 

It's all a waste of time and effort. Except if you're having fun.

 

And some people like to raise the stakes for fun.

[Grouchybeast]

An extremely simple and easy to implement Hardcore Mode to help people run Hardcore SGs/challenges etc: add a badge awarded the first time a character dies.  Mechanically, award it for the first point of debt earned. Then it will be easy to see if a character has never died.  Once a hardcore character earns that badge, then of course it's up to the player if they do the right thing and delete.

[tidge]

There go the debt badges....

[WanderingAries]

4 hours ago, Super Atom said:

So just do it?

 

You don't need the game to do it for you. Just make a guy and if you die delete him. Put up in your LFG "Hardcore only" or something and there you go.

This as a realistic method to accomplish the OP's request, but TBH, I don't see how you can realistically have a "dead and done" character with this type of game. For the most part, even a L50 will run into content that will all but one-shot you. Beyond that, unless you have absolutely no "feelings" for your alt, then it's a complete departure from what the game is about. That said, it's your alt to do with what you please.

[WanderingAries]

3 hours ago, biostem said:

How would self-rez powers figure into such a mode?

Realistically? You wouldn't take them, even if that meant taking an unused power.

[Haijinx]

You'd end up doing low risk content probably

 

 

[ZekeStenzland]

Live had the Iron Eagles, which played hardcore. WoW has its iron man challenge. It’s available right now, all you have to do is Just Do It. 
 

No doubt, if it turned out that there lots of players playing this way, the devs might be able to justify putting some effort into helping support this play style. But until then, your destiny is in your own hands. 

[Troo]

Some folks are clamoring for a challenge. Liking the idea of Hardcore mode.

I called it Master mode when mentioning: https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/15731-the-broken-brutes-effect-please-buff-them/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-167886

& https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/14039-challenge-mode-any-ideas/

I'm sure others have thought similarly.

 

I'll echo @Doc_Scorpion @Steampunkette and others in that the expectation of any dev time is unrealistic.

The ideas from @Super Atom @Sailboatand others that this is do-able currently are spot on.

 

Totally doable:

• A Hardcore SG
• Hardcore channel for folks to connect
• and a Challenge forum (Pylon, solo TFs, speed TFs, Vet levels, Hardcore, etc.
• Schedule some events (low level at first)

@Grouchybeast has a good idea, if there is any traction, simply ask to add a badge denoting a first defeat or debt. Or maybe a badge for making it to a level without defeat or debt.

 

It's likely not a ton of people would be on board but it would be an outlet for any who are saying there is no challenge or things should be harder.

 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Troo

[Super Atom]

-No AH/IO's

-Past level 32 +2/x2 no lower

-Past 47 +2/x4 no lower

-On death, either delete the toon or move it to a normal character (most chose to just keep them but no longer abide by hardcore)

-Only hardcore play on teams.

-No inspirations (These are for babies anyway)

-No self rez powers (sorry)

-Incarnate is fine but if you do, +3/x6 no lower

-No Empathy.

-At level 50 and full incarnate +4/x8 only no lower

[Lazarillo]

9 hours ago, biostem said:

How would self-rez powers figure into such a mode?

Well, if it's a self-challenge like many people here are suggesting, I'd imagine, "however you want".

 

I remember there was an SG back in the old days (mighta been the "Iron Eagles" one mentioned above, but I don't know), where the rule was just "no teleports" (I believe they RP'd it, even, as, like, a religious thing).  So rezzes of both the self and teammate variety were okay, as were Awakens, etc.  Or even lying around a zone hoping somebody nice would give you an inspiration (though you couldn't ask...you were knocked out, after all!).  I think they had a time limit, though, where you'd be considered "dead" if you hadn't been aided.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Lazarillo

[Troo]

seeing a teammate you know playing Hardcore go down, *gasp, and then slowly just fade away..

[Grouchybeast]

9 hours ago, Troo said:

 

@Grouchybeast has a good idea, if there is any traction, simply ask to add a badge denoting a first defeat or debt. Or maybe a badge for making it to a level without defeat or debt.

 

I thought about badges for not dying, but adding a whole tranche of badges that it would be impossible to get retroactively would be sure to bring out the angry badgers (of which I am one :-).

[Troo]

Good point, a badge for the first debt might be easier then.

[Sailboat]

21 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

Doubtful you would get very high in levels, would be a waste of time to delete your character should you actually make it higher.  Better off just starting with a new character and change the name to keep it on the back burner.

 

Otherwise seems like a waste of time and effort.

The Iron Eagles had several 50s, including some Blasters, believe it or not.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Sailboat