Please disallow multiboxing entirely

[Angelhood]

Multiboxing is a toxic way to play City of Heroes. It shouldn't beallowed. It...

 

• Discourages class diversity by favoring passive ATs such as VEATs and MMs
  
• Discourages team play, as multiboxing favors solo content
  
• Harms the economy by grossly increasing the amount of liquid infamy
  
• Disadvantages single box players by causing massive inflation; see above
  
• Is wholly unnecessary due to the speed of existing dedicated farming builds (no, you don't need to make them faster) and the amount of utilities i25+ have introduced to CoH/CoV to hit endgame in record time
  
• Encourages botting, as multiple accounts can be run simultaneously from the same computer
  
• Relies on player honesty, an honor system, and active knowledge of queue times to work in the current system without impacting the game during increased server load
  
• Turns the experience of CoX into the same asocial grindfest of other MMOs
  

 

Advantages:

• You can make more inf

 

If you want to see what multiboxing does to a game, look at EVE Online, where pilots are encouraged to run multiple active subscriptions to keep up economically, and things like passive drone ships and FAX Logi chains have become standard due to CCP's allowance of it. The same will happen here and is not a positive change to the majority of players. Please undo this change in your policy.

[_NOPE_]

/JRanger

 

I haven't seen it as being a problem yet in my experience, and I'm not inclined to prescribe specific playstyles to other people. I think time will tell on this, but I really don't think we're at the point of needing to shut it down right this moment. Are you having issues playing right now because of multiboxing? Can you prove it, statistically rather than anecdotally?

[Obsidius]

Are you having issues playing right now because of multiboxing?

 

 

I was wondering the same thing. Is this happening now, or is this game slowly GONE TO THE AMERICANS?

[Angelhood]

All of the above statements are largely derived from issues in EVE Online caused by CCP's lax policies on running multiple accounts out of the same PC, which to my knowledge is the only example that springs to mind of a game where multiboxing has been actively allowed by a developer in their MMO. Also from peoples' tendency to take the most optimal or low-effort means to accomplish a goal (such as farm out IO sets). And peoples' tendency to violate conditional rules (people tend to speed more in school zones where the speed limit is reduced periodically during the reductions than in areas with constant speed limits, as a quantifiable example) over constant ones. Even if tools were implemented to identify multiboxers as the server fills up and "I didn't know 7 PM on a Saturday was going to be peak hours" and "sorry, I'm just playing with my brother" become common excuses.

[eldriyth]

All of the above statements are largely derived from issues in EVE Online caused by CCP's lax policies on running multiple accounts out of the same PC, which to my knowledge is the only example that springs to mind of a game where multiboxing has been actively allowed by a developer in their MMO. Also from peoples' tendency to take the most optimal or low-effort means to accomplish a goal (such as farm out IO sets). And peoples' tendency to violate conditional rules (people tend to speed more in school zones where the speed limit is reduced periodically during the reductions than in areas with constant speed limits, as a quantifiable example) over constant ones. Even if tools were implemented to identify multiboxers as the server fills up and "I didn't know 7 PM on a Saturday was going to be peak hours" and "sorry, I'm just playing with my brother" become common excuses.

 

This post gave my eyes cancer. Let people play the game the way they want. The Black Market has been seeded and can't EVER technically break. Your BS infamy/influence excuse has ZERO weight. The devs made the game way better. Some people like to be in total control without the help of others. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

[Rylas]

• Discourages team play, as multiboxing favors solo content
  
• Turns the experience of CoX into the same asocial grindfest of other MMOs
  

 

Might I suggest spending more time in the LFG channel? I see no lack of team requests in there.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

Eh, so long as it isn't causing excessive server load let people lay the way they want to. People multiboxing is no skin off my back.

[Mjolnerd]

EVE Online has turned into a trash fire several times due to lack of oversight/control/accountability.

 

Good thing this is an entirely different game; maybe we should even treat it as one.

[WanderingAries]

• Discourages team play, as multiboxing favors solo content
  
• Turns the experience of CoX into the same asocial grindfest of other MMOs
  

 

Might I suggest spending more time in the LFG channel? I see no lack of team requests in there.

 

This, it's actually quite distracting to have this channel open as it flows about as fast as the Help chan complains. :p

[Adeon Hawkwood]

This, it's actually quite distracting to have this channel open as it flows about as fast as the Help chan complains. :p

I recommend putting them on separate tabs.

[mrudat]

I have 7 PCs, all of which are capable of running CoH; if I use those rather than running multiple clients on one PC, is that fine?  :)

 

Detecting actual multiboxing, as opposed to multiple people using the same internet connection to play (this is indistinguishable as far as the server is concerned, so if you do a blanket ban you will prevent my brother and I from playing at the same time >:() requires GM attention, which could be better spent doing something more productive, such as the GMs getting to play the game themselves.

 

Also, if we don't allow multiboxing, that means I will never get to group with Tolltec, TolItec, ToIltec and ToIItec again. :(

[Disruptor]

no

[Primantis]

And how are they going to enforce it?

 

How are they going to tell multi boxers from a couple playing together. Or a parent and their kids? Internet LAN party?

 

Will it become a full blown witch hunt where any thematic group is reported enmasse by the player base and banned? "Oh they must be multi boxing, they all have matching names and costumes!"

 

Let sleeping dogs lie. The only real issue is server stress. Granted the honor system will only go so far, but punishing the masses for the misdoings of a small group has always been a silly idea. The same people who Multibox 8 chars during prime time would be the same people cheating the system if it were "banned" anyways. So you accomplish nothing but punishing the rule-abiding player.

[HelenCarnate]

All they can do is exactly what they did last night.  I saw a message pop up asking nicely for those that were multi boxing to stop during peak hours as there was a queue at that time to get into the server.

[Roughtrade]

How are they going to tell multi boxers from a couple playing together. Or a parent and their kids? Internet LAN party?

I don’t have a dog in this fight one way or the other, but your points are poorly chosen.  Hysterical hyperbole about “punishing the masses” and “witch-hunts” serves no purpose.

 

Multi boxing behavior is easily identifiable in game from a thematically similar family group playing together.  Detecting it by connection only is difficult, but in game you can distinguish between a multi box player and a group of friends with a glance.  The issue isn’t can we figure them out, the issue is we do not really have the resources in people to effectively adjudicate the issue.

 

Also, “people will always find a way to cheat so allow all forms of cheating” is possible the weakest debate point I have ever seen.  People are going to murder anyways, so make it legal?

 

As long as multiboxers are not taxing server resources, then I welcome them.  As long as they are not “stealing my kill” for something that this actually works for...  I dunno, holiday bosses maybe?  Is there anything kill stealable on a practical level? 

 

Anyways, there can be room for multi boxing, but if you want to support them, you could not have picked a worse argument. 

[macskull]

Multi boxing was allowed when the game was live and literally none of the problems OP mentioned happened because of it.

[Burnt Toast]

Maybe stop trying to control the way others play the game? Since people who multi-box generally do not play with others I fail to see how this has any affect on you. Them earning influence or recipes or...whatever else does not affect your ability to earn influence,  xp, or drops. Using arguments from another (very toxic) game is not justification for action here. You literally compared rotting oranges and shiny red apples.

 

 

[Palad1n]

Maybe stop trying to control the way others play the game? Since people who multi-box generally do not play with others I fail to see how this has any affect on you. Them earning influence or recipes or...whatever else does not affect your ability to earn influence,  xp, or drops. Using arguments from another (very toxic) game is not justification for action here. You literally compared rotting oranges and shiny red apples.

 

Admins have already stated, MB is not allowed during high peek/load on the servers. They have already stated that they felt MB was reasonable up to 2 to maybe 3 characters max.

 

Unfortunately I have already seen a few MB doing 4-6+, especially during heavy load times on my server "Torchbearer". They are asking us to self regulate but the reality is, there are many who do give a crap and will push the limits regardless. That is "toxic behavior".

 

 

[Zolgar]

Multiboxing is a toxic way to play City of Heroes. It shouldn't beallowed. It...

 

[*]Discourages class diversity by favoring passive ATs such as VEATs and MMs

[*]Discourages team play, as multiboxing favors solo content

[*]Harms the economy by grossly increasing the amount of liquid infamy

[*]Disadvantages single box players by causing massive inflation; see above

[*]Is wholly unnecessary due to the speed of existing dedicated farming builds (no, you don't need to make them faster) and the amount of utilities i25+ have introduced to CoH/CoV to hit endgame in record time

[*]Encourages botting, as multiple accounts can be run simultaneously from the same computer

[*]Relies on player honesty, an honor system, and active knowledge of queue times to work in the current system without impacting the game during increased server load

[*]Turns the experience of CoX into the same asocial grindfest of other MMOs

 

Advantages:

• You can make more inf

 

If you want to see what multiboxing does to a game, look at EVE Online, where pilots are encouraged to run multiple active subscriptions to keep up economically, and things like passive drone ships and FAX Logi chains have become standard due to CCP's allowance of it. The same will happen here and is not a positive change to the majority of players. Please undo this change in your policy.

 

Allow me to counter your points one at a time:

1) It only favors those for the individuals who choose to dual box, which is, and always has been, a minority in City of Heroes. When the game went Free to Play, we didn't see tons of players multi-boxing. They were there, of course, but it was still a very small portion of the player base.

2) Many multiboxers on live enjoyed teaming, if they weren't running an entire team on their own.

3) Unlike other games, multiboxing doesn't really give you a drastically higher amount of influence. Yes, you'll make more, but not by any amount that will be worth noting vs. being a single box farmer.

4) Above point was nullified, so this one is too. Plus this isn't really a PvP game, there is no "unfair advantage", unless you specifically play PvP, but even then the advantage one has by having "more influence" is not that drastic. There is a hard-cap price on everything in the game because you can get everything you need with merits, bypassing the market completely.

5) OK, we're in agreement on this point. This isn't a reason to ban it though, if "you don't need to do it." were an excuse to ban things, we would also ban roleplaying in Pocket D. If someone enjoys dual boxing, who are we to tell them their fun is wrong?

6) "Encourages botting" So do AE farms. Botting may be seen as a problem, but it is a separate issue from multiboxing.

7) The current system says "Please don't do this when the server is busy." We ban it, it becomes "Please don't get caught doing this." because we cannot prevent it from happening, mechanically speaking, without hurting "legitimate" players, so it becomes something we have to have GMs actively hunt for?

8) No more so than AE farming already does.

 

As for advantages?

 

People enjoy it. Let them have their fun.

 

This isn't Eve. This isn't a for-profit MMO. This isn't a "pay to win" game. Literally the only benefit someone who multiboxes has over you is they have more influence. Maybe it makes it a little easier for them to make an uber PvP build? Doesn't make it any harder for you to make an uber PvP build. Run some TFs, grind some Empyrean merits. Hey, look at that, you're decked out too.

[macskull]

Admins have already stated, MB is not allowed during high peek/load on the servers. They have already stated that they felt MB was reasonable up to 2 to maybe 3 characters max.

 

Unfortunately I have already seen a few MB doing 4-6+, especially during heavy load times on my server "Torchbearer". They are asking us to self regulate but the reality is, there are many who do give a crap and will push the limits regardless. That is "toxic behavior".

So tell a GM/mod and move on with your day.

[mattwo]

All of the above statements are largely derived from issues in EVE Online caused by CCP's lax policies on running multiple accounts out of the same PC, which to my knowledge is the only example that springs to mind of a game where multiboxing has been actively allowed by a developer in their MMO. Also from peoples' tendency to take the most optimal or low-effort means to accomplish a goal (such as farm out IO sets). And peoples' tendency to violate conditional rules (people tend to speed more in school zones where the speed limit is reduced periodically during the reductions than in areas with constant speed limits, as a quantifiable example) over constant ones. Even if tools were implemented to identify multiboxers as the server fills up and "I didn't know 7 PM on a Saturday was going to be peak hours" and "sorry, I'm just playing with my brother" become common excuses.

 

"This happened to a different game and could potentially happen to this one but it hasn't yet so let's act like it has"

 

EVE Online has turned into a trash fire several times due to lack of oversight/control/accountability.

 

Good thing this is an entirely different game; maybe we should even treat it as one.

 

^

 

Multi boxing behavior is easily identifiable in game from a thematically similar family group playing together.

 

That on it's own honestly seems like it could be an actual family. I mean I saw a post on tumblr of a family group playing as Starscream, Skywarp and Thundercracker, a trio of transformers characters who are recolors of each other. Are you going to assume THEY are multiboxing?

 

Now on the other hand, I saw a kheild with an army of identical defender AT "drone" characters that had em on follow, probably to compensate for those enemies that spawn in every mission with a kheild. That one was PRETTY obvious. He wasn't even trying to hide it.. And that was when multiboxing was still 100% banned too.

[Burnt Toast]

So because you don't like it... then it is toxic? What is the actual harm you are experiencing from these multi-boxing persons? Don't say they are taking up server space of people who want to log in and do missions because frankly... a lot of role players have the same effect. So if server space isn't the harm.. what is it? Why does it bother you so much that they are playing the game they like to play the way they like to play? I personally think role-playing is a waste of resources but to each their own - it doesn't affect me after all. This is why when they announced the unoffocial official roleplay server... I immediately stopped playing my characters on that server. So please enlighten me as to the harm you are experiencing because of these multi-boxing people. Not perceived harm..actual harm.

 

And can someone please point me to this Dev statement regarding multi-boxing... I looked where I thought it should be and tried searching, but came up with no actual post regarding the issue. Would be interesting to see what they actually stated in regards to people who play 2-3 accounts since people are saying they have basically condoned such behavior.

 

Maybe stop trying to control the way others play the game? Since people who multi-box generally do not play with others I fail to see how this has any affect on you. Them earning influence or recipes or...whatever else does not affect your ability to earn influence,  xp, or drops. Using arguments from another (very toxic) game is not justification for action here. You literally compared rotting oranges and shiny red apples.

 

Admins have already stated, MB is not allowed during high peek/load on the servers. They have already stated that they felt MB was reasonable up to 2 to maybe 3 characters max.

 

Unfortunately I have already seen a few MB doing 4-6+, especially during heavy load times on my server "Torchbearer". They are asking us to self regulate but the reality is, there are many who do give a crap and will push the limits regardless. That is "toxic behavior".

[_NOPE_]

And can someone please point me to this Dev statement regarding multi-boxing... I looked where I thought it should be and tried searching, but came up with no actual post regarding the issue. Would be interesting to see what they actually stated in regards to people who play 2-3 accounts since people are saying they have basically condoned such behavior.

 

Looking at my Dev Tracker, I can find no instances of the Devs talking about multi-boxing... at all.

[Mr. Vee]

From Odd in discord announcements:

 

An update on multiboxing:

 

We are now allowing multiboxing (within reason) whenever there are no queues active. Once queues occur, we kindly ask you to stick to one account.

 

As for what's within reason: Two or three. A team of 8 MMs to yourself is not reasonable :smiley:/quote]

[_NOPE_]

Yeah, see, this is why I think that we need these forums to be the official communication channel. Discord is so clunky, impermanent, and hard to search...