Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[Grouchybeast]

4 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

 

 

Apparently some of the players have the lifespan of a fly, so a week to them is a lifetime.

The nice thing is that with AE-speed levelling, even the mayflies get to play CoX and have a couple of 50s before they rush off to mate and be eaten by trout.

[MunkiLord]

I just figure we're not going to have firm data to rely on until a few months after the Covid lockdown passes.

[Haijinx]

3 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

This.

 

There are enough people on at peak hours to push Excelsior to 🔴 🔴 🔴.

Yeah the numbers online right now is crazy.  The prices are going to go up just because of demand. 

[Haijinx]

53 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I just figure we're not going to have firm data to rely on until a few months after the Covid lockdown passes.

If ever. 

 

People will either Farm more

 

Or settle for being poorer / have fewer alts 

 

I doubt much will change. 

 

 

[QuiJon]

On 4/10/2020 at 6:00 PM, MunkiLord said:

If people want to spend 20 minutes a day to make a billion a week, then farming is the wrong kind of effort. Easy fix by doing something different. 

Couldn't I easily say the same thing if I said make everything a in game purchase from the game itself, get rid of all player to player auctions and everyone just pays a set price for what they want? Oh wait, that's right that destroys the "Choice" of wanting to be a marketer, well that isn't fair to those that wish to take part in that activity. However those that wanted to earn that extra money farming, oh well they are dirty farmers and exploiters we don't care what they think apparently. 

 

[Coyotedancer]

Those of us who actually enjoy tossing our characters into the middle of huge hordes of angry cosplayers (among other things-) for fun and profit will still do that. We just don't see as much of the "profit" part as we used to...

 

The fun? That's still there, and that's why at least my particular sub-set of the farming population is unlikely to give it up any time soon, in spite of the loss of INF or the superior return ratio of marketeering. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

44 minutes ago, QuiJon said:

Couldn't I easily say the same thing if I said make everything a in game purchase from the game itself, get rid of all player to player auctions and everyone just pays a set price for what they want? Oh wait, that's right that destroys the "Choice" of wanting to be a marketer, well that isn't fair to those that wish to take part in that activity. However those that wanted to earn that extra money farming, oh well they are dirty farmers and exploiters we don't care what they think apparently. 

 

I think the real problem with a set price regime is in setting a price that will be good for the lifetime of the game.  How much is the right price to buy common salvage?  Right now that's 10,000 and I don't think too many people would blink at paying that if they needed to.  How much is the right price to buy a purple recipe?  Right now that's 100,000,000.  Do you want to leave that number there, or set it at 100,000?  The player supplied market system allows for variation within the prescribed band, and enough people find that interesting and worthwhile.

 

I guess it all goes back to a matter of price, and I'm happy to discuss it mainly because I judge there is a zero percent chance the devs will move to a fixed price vendor offering system.

 

What is the "right" buy it now price for a purple, for an ATO, for a PvP?  I'd like to see what the fixed price supporters think is proper.  I think 100,000,000 for any item in the game fits, although I'd love it if they raised it from that current price.

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I think the real problem with a set price regime is in setting a price that will be good for the lifetime of the game.  How much is the right price to buy common salvage?  Right now that's 10,000 and I don't think too many people would blink at paying that if they needed to.  How much is the right price to buy a purple recipe?  Right now that's 100,000,000.  Do you want to leave that number there, or set it at 100,000?  The player supplied market system allows for variation within the prescribed band, and enough people find that interesting and worthwhile.

 

I guess it all goes back to a matter of price, and I'm happy to discuss it mainly because I judge there is a zero percent chance the devs will move to a fixed price vendor offering system.

 

What is the "right" buy it now price for a purple, for an ATO, for a PvP?  I'd like to see what the fixed price supporters think is proper.  I think 100,000,000 for any item in the game fits, although I'd love it if they raised it from that current price.

And interestingly no purple actually goes for that. I think folks need to be careful what they wish for.

[ivanhedgehog]

15 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

FARMERS ARE THE POOR OPPRESSED UNDERCLASS!

 

MARKETEERS ARE CAUSING DAILY INFLATION OF TEN THOUSAND PERCENT!!

 

PVPERS STABBED ME IN THE BACK WHILE I WAS LEVELLING IN ATLAS AND EMPTIED MY POCKETS!!!

 

ROLEPLAYERS ARE ROLEPLAYING BEING RICH AND STEALING ALL MY INF SOMEHOW!!!!

 

ETA:  Sorry, I forgot that THE GAME IS DOOOOOOOOOOMED!

Blame Canada

[SwitchFade]

5 hours ago, QuiJon said:

Couldn't I easily say the same thing if I said make everything a in game purchase from the game itself, get rid of all player to player auctions and everyone just pays a set price for what they want? Oh wait, that's right that destroys the "Choice" of wanting to be a marketer, well that isn't fair to those that wish to take part in that activity. However those that wanted to earn that extra money farming, oh well they are dirty farmers and exploiters we don't care what they think apparently. 

 

You seem strangely focused on not acknowledging the actual intent of the fix and instead misdirecting.

 

Rampant inflation is bad for an economy. Quadruple INF farming created currency from nothing, causing the afore mentioned inflation.

 

We have reached a critical threshold where that inflation would begin growing at an exponential rate, thus, the fix.

 

Converting inferior goods to normal goods drives prices down. Converting and selling causes deflation, due to taxes.

 

"Marketeering* doesn't create currency, it redistributes it.

[Haijinx]

7 hours ago, QuiJon said:

Couldn't I easily say the same thing if I said make everything a in game purchase from the game itself, get rid of all player to player auctions and everyone just pays a set price for what they want? Oh wait, that's right that destroys the "Choice" of wanting to be a marketer, well that isn't fair to those that wish to take part in that activity. However those that wanted to earn that extra money farming, oh well they are dirty farmers and exploiters we don't care what they think apparently. 

 

So basically you don't want an MMO economy.  You want a Single Player RPG economy. 

 

 

[Gremlin]

16 hours ago, Taboomantis said:

Double Influence has been gone forba bit now.  High end enhancements are still overpriced but now we don't have enough to buy them.  20 to 25 mil for purples, event enh and some archetype ones.  I would have expected to see prices drop on those, nope.  Even some standard ones have gone up to 10 million. From 4 to 6 million before. 

I also believe it's far too early to tell. I don't think we'll see the results of the change for 3 to 6 months. This is a wild guess though.

 

The effect of inflation on prices is similar to the effect of the accelerator (gas) pedal on the speed of a car. All we know for certain is that accelerator was flat on the floor and now it's not. Maybe we're going to slow down, maybe we're going to keep cruising at the same speed, maybe we're going to keep getting faster we don't really know. All we know is that we're not accelerating as much as we were. We may never see prices fall.

[Haijinx]

38 minutes ago, Gremlin said:

I also believe it's far too early to tell. I don't think we'll see the results of the change for 3 to 6 months. This is a wild guess though.

 

The effect of inflation on prices is similar to the effect of the accelerator (gas) pedal on the speed of a car. All we know for certain is that accelerator was flat on the floor and now it's not. Maybe we're going to slow down, maybe we're going to keep cruising at the same speed, maybe we're going to keep getting faster we don't really know. All we know is that we're not accelerating as much as we were. We may never see prices fall.

The Majority of all influence is still pumped into the game, like always, just by all the players earning it on normal missions.  Vendoring off SO's, Basic IO recipes, etc. 

 

The change just removed an exploit. 

 

There are so many more non-farmers than farmers there is no way it is not the majority of INF created. 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Haijinx

[Grouchybeast]

34 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

The Majority of all influence is still pumped into the game, like always, just by all the players earning it on normal missions.  Vendoring off SO's, Basic IO recipes, etc. 

 

The change just removed an exploit. 

 

There are so many more non-farmers than farmers there is no way it is not the majority of INF created. 

What really needs to happen for a serious attempt to curb long-term inflation in the game is to drastically cut the amount of inf earned by high level characters, especially with 50s and 50+ content.  The ratio between what a character earns per defeat at level 1 and level 50 is ridiculous, and vendoring level 50 common recipes gets 100,000 inf each.  50s pour inf into the game in a giant waterfall.

 

More inf sinks would help, but they would have to be large enough to match the inflow.

[Gremlin]

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

The Majority of all influence is still pumped into the game, like always, just by all the players earning it on normal missions.  Vendoring off SO's, Basic IO recipes, etc. 

Have you seen any data about this? I'd love to see some concrete numbers.

[Lines]

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

There are so many more non-farmers than farmers there is no way it is not the majority of INF created. 

 

My guess would be that farmers were generating the majority of inf. Certainly enough of a proportion to raise a warning sign.

 

Totally a guess, though. I just imagine that the data HC were seeing must have been quite serious for this kind of solution.

 

(Edit: Though after dwelling on it, I do see your point.)

Edited April 13, 2020 by Lines

[Seigmoraig]

Wow people are still crying about this ?
I have been afk farming for weeks now while I'm working from home.

Started before the nerf and I was seeing about 300mill per day doing that. Just vendor trashing everything that isn't rare salvage or recipes worth 5mill+

After the nerf, doing the exact same thing I'm seeing about 250mill return on my day.

 

It's not that big of a deal guys, the huge amounts of inf you get from selling generic IO recipes is still there. It blows my mind how people are still, after weeks crying about this.

 

Seriously you guys "marketeers" are a part of any "auction house" style economy and they aren't going anywhere and honestly I doubt there is anything that can be done to curb them without impacting everyone else. If you aren't happy that there is a market for that kind of playstyle moaning about it in a 1000+ reply thread over and over isn't going to change anything.
The reason the "marketeers" even have a viable path is because people want to sell their stuff fast and there is literally nothing you can do that will change that. People want their money now because they are playing now and they want their rewards now. There is nothing wrong with that, if it wasn't for those people playing the market like they do, all those people wouldn't be able to have their rewards when they wanted them.
And before anyone says how people should just be patient and price their wares accordingly. You are wrong. You don't have the right to dictate how people play the game. If somebody wants their money NOW there is a path to do so and it is their right to get it. If the person wants to get their money and craft their stuff to be ready for the next gaming session before logging they can and will do that and no amount of bitching about it here will change that.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Seigmoraig

[Parabola]

2 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

What really needs to happen for a serious attempt to curb long-term inflation in the game is to drastically cut the amount of inf earned by high level characters, especially with 50s and 50+ content.  The ratio between what a character earns per defeat at level 1 and level 50 is ridiculous, and vendoring level 50 common recipes gets 100,000 inf each.  50s pour inf into the game in a giant waterfall.

 

More inf sinks would help, but they would have to be large enough to match the inflow.

They could remove the option to vendor anything. If the only choices were between selling everything on the market or deleting it would certainly cut into the earning power at the high end. *Ducks behind sofa*.

[Peerless Girl]

16 hours ago, Haijinx said:

If ever. 

 

People will either Farm more

 

Or settle for being poorer / have fewer alts 

 

I doubt much will change. 

 

 

 

It will, will just take time.

 

15 hours ago, QuiJon said:

However those that wanted to earn that extra money farming, oh well they are dirty farmers and exploiters we don't care what they think apparently. 

 

Hey look, he was finally right about something...

[Dalkaroth]

The basic idea behind increasing INF, by turning off experience, was a form of compensation. How will players be compensated now when experience is switched off ?

[Lines]

5 minutes ago, Dalkaroth said:

The basic idea behind increasing INF, by turning off experience, was a form of compensation. How will players be compensated now when experience is switched off ?

I'd hazard a guess that we might see some changes to rewards to compensate in some way. Though I'm supposing it won't have anything to do with inf if the amount getting generated was unhealthy.

 

It might take time for the team to know how to balance rewards, given that data needs a bit of time to settle.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Lines

[golstat2003]

7 minutes ago, Lines said:

I'd hazard a guess that we might see some changes to rewards to compensate in some way. Though I'm supposing it won't have anything to do with inf if the amount getting generated was unhealthy.

 

It might take time for the team to know how to balance rewards, given that data needs a bit of time to settle.

I'd bet we'd see an increase in reward merits or merits add to content and new and novel ways. But that's a guess with no proof that that's the direction they are going.

[Obus Form]

1 hour ago, Seigmoraig said:

If somebody wants their money NOW there is a path to do so and it is their right to get it. If the person wants to get their money and craft their stuff to be ready for the next gaming session before logging they can and will do that and no amount of bitching about it here will change that.

Time.

 

Nearly 100% certain that for all of us, real-life time is most valuable.  

 

I'm a marketeer responsible for raising prices on salvage and sometimes flooding markets because I desire maximizing value (inf generation) per minute of real-life time spent gaming on COH.  I often don't want to "wait until tomorrow" because my life circumstances may or may not allow me to come back to COH tomorrow.  Also, tomorrow may or may not have another nerf somewhere, or another real-life health crisis.  As long as my sell price is met, I will make inf.  I will buy/craft/convert/put-for-auction.... today!

[justicebeliever]

57 minutes ago, Dalkaroth said:

The basic idea behind increasing INF, by turning off experience, was a form of compensation. How will players be compensated now when experience is switched off ?

This was my initial complaint about this change before I realized it was being used as an exploit.  I'm somewhat on the fence here, because we. as a community (not every individual, mind you), are OK with 2XP boosts, but we fret about the Influence boosts.  As someone who doesn't use extra XP boosts, and frequently turns off XP to not outlevel stuff, I'd like to see some reward to go the other way, for those of us who miss the slower leveling days of yore (a minority to be sure though).

 

I understand the impact of Influence inflation, and I'm not suggesting we go backwards here, but wondering how we (and maybe the question is IF we even need to) compensate those who aren't burning through XP as fast...

[Yomo Kimyata]

10 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

Time.

 

Nearly 100% certain that for all of us, real-life time is most valuable.  

 

I'm a marketeer responsible for raising prices on salvage and sometimes flooding markets because I desire maximizing value (inf generation) per minute of real-life time spent gaming on COH.  I often don't want to "wait until tomorrow" because my life circumstances may or may not allow me to come back to COH tomorrow.  Also, tomorrow may or may not have another nerf somewhere, or another real-life health crisis.  As long as my sell price is met, I will make inf.  I will buy/craft/convert/put-for-auction.... today!

I hear what you are saying, but I don't think it really is time.  It's convenience and patience.

 

I see a lot of posts (not yours!) that say things like, "I have four jobs and eight children and three wives.  I have forty-five seconds to play CoH every other month, and you expect me to be able to compete with those slack-jawed yokels who are playing 26 hours a day, 9 days a week?  No, just give me my purple IOs for 10,000 inf each and give me a temp power that will let me solo Hami during my leisure time."

 

There are a lot of things in life that are a lot more important than this silly game, but if you are carving out any time at all to play it, you probably have five extra seconds to put a number other than 5 in the sell box.  If you are playing today, you probably will be able to play again within the next few weeks and pick up your buys and sales at your next log in.

 

What the buy it NAO and sell it NAO crowd is paying for is convenience and the lack of patience.  Typing 5 is a lot easier and faster than determining a better sell price to get a little more return.  Throwing in a high bid to avoid bid creeping is certainly faster, although it must be annoying if your high bid doesn't insta-fill and you have to bid creep anyway.  That's A-OK with me.  Sometimes I pay up for convenience, but mostly I collect impatience fees from the AH in the 45 hours a day I play marketeer.  I'd love it if more people would put some more effort into the AH process, since that would add a little competition and keep it fresh, but I'm perfectly happy to keep the counter on my imaginary currency rolling over.