Weekly Discussion 51: Kallisti Wharf!

[GM Miss]

Weekly discussion 51 - Week 5/17/20-5/23/20:

⚔️YOU VOTED: Lets talk about what you would like to see done to Kallisti Wharf!⚔️

 

❓ Things to think about:

>What is your vision for KW?
>What storylines or task forces would you like to see added?
>What enemies would you like to see roaming the streets (if any!)

 

Don't just use these prompts, talk about whatever you want from this weeks prompt!

 

Let's Chat 😄

[ArchVileTerror]

As discussed in other threads, Kallisti demolishes my active memory, and has been the single leading causes for my game crashes since Homecoming started.

I would greatly appreciate that optimization efforts are the first thing on the list for that zone, and that any player-run or official events take place in less resource intensive zones until that issue is addressed.   I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[Doc_Scorpion]

Honestly, I find Kallisti Wharf kinda depressing...  Praetorian styled architecture is so soulless.   When people kept asking for more City zones to be revamped along Praetorian lines, I was always screaming "NOOOOOooooooo" internally.

[SwitchFade]

Populated with underused factions for the range.

 

Task force that discuss the history of kalista, perhaps with villains trying to go legit and heroes who fall from grace.

 

GM spawns at random: lusca, and something new, Dev pick

 

Door missions and contacts styled like IP and skyway contacts, but with cleaner backstory.

 

Don't overdo it with the praetorian stuff, I get it but it's really kind of... Meh. I'd rather gold side was improved for that.

 

Please, no more spiders. Arachnos are all over, and honestly, not that scary. No hamidon, he already took over 3 zones. We all know he's a baddie.

 

Just for a start.

[Heraclea]

I would have the zone periodically spawn giant monsters or AVs of similar stature: Ruladak, Adamastor, Jack and Eochai. some of the DE giant monsters, runaway Goliath War Walkers, that sort of thing.  The more heroic side of the zone is too creepily perfect and is ripe for being trashed by kaiju.  Ideally we could get some new and original giant monsters for the zone: a giant, fire breathing dinosaur would be perfect, as would a giant ape with super jump.  Failing that, a fire based Adamastor might be fun. 

[Gulbasaur]

1 hour ago, GM Miss said:

>What is your vision for KW?
>What storylines or task forces would you like to see added?
>What enemies would you like to see roaming the streets (if any!)

 

Incarnate level stuff!

 

I'd love to see a conclusion of the Nemesis-focussed Signature Story Arc - those enemies were challenging and had lore links. I get the impression that existing lore has been quite hands-off, but please can we see some of the mechanics that appeared in late game content showcased?

 

Send in Nemesis. Only he can bring it to glory.

 

[Troo]

First - clean up all the excess geometry so the zone can be used.. or enable the underwater combat already.

Second - make it easy to get to and from. one giant public base with portals to everywhere.

Third - to encourage use, typing 'farm' in a broadcast channel is a secret teleport power to this zone.

[SwitchFade]

No AE. We should have one normal zone with no AE building.

[SuperPlyx]

Serious question, is it known why some players(myself included)  experience such major connection  and crash issues with this zone? Is it something fixable?

[Sakura Tenshi]

3 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Honestly, I find Kallisti Wharf kinda depressing...  Praetorian styled architecture is so soulless.   When people kept asking for more City zones to be revamped along Praetorian lines, I was always screaming "NOOOOOooooooo" internally.

I kind of get what you mean, I actually like the architecture of the villain side of the Wharf more because it's all older brick style buildings in line with First/Night Ward.

 

1 hour ago, SwitchFade said:

No AE. We should have one normal zone with no AE building.

Or maybe like they've done with the hospital and university, make the AE building unique in design, though I also can understand the grievances as it feels like AE buildings in general just aren't used unless it's Atlas Park, Pocket D, and maybe Mercy. Sadly the only reason I ever see other AE buildings visited was RP reasons (even if the mission wasn't supposed to be an actual AE thing)

 

4 hours ago, GM Miss said:

>What is your vision for KW?
>What storylines or task forces would you like to see added?
>What enemies would you like to see roaming the streets (if any!)

1. My own vision for Kallisti Wharf would actually be something a bit experimental: a leveless zone. All mobs use invasion tech so they are always equal challenge to the player facing them whether they're level 1 or 50+3 (in theory at least). Secondly, I actually kind of like Kallisti Wharf being a place that's relatively crime free, so I would like it overworld spawns only happened by heroes and villains triggering them deliberately or only encountering them in missions and so fourth. Maybe even have the entire zone be indirect PvP through a long string of back and forth zone events of Heroes and Villains basically 'pushing spawns' into one another's side.

 

2. this is gonna be a mini-list of it's own

• NO COMING STORM/BATTALION STUFF: I know we've basically been waiting years for a followup on that story, but having started up new characters here and rerunning the storyline, holy cow, once you hit 30 you're getting smacked regularly with mentioned of 'coming storm' and 'praetoria' and 'incarnate threats', and with having returned only not too long ago, it might be nice to just break from that and refocus on super powered antics of state/province to national level.
• More Vigilante and Rogue arcs: namely more stuff where the rogues aren't out to be malicious and just make a profit and vigilantes are just looking out for people the law won't help because of technicalities than kicking or shooting dogs.
• A TF for each side, probably incarnate difficulty to give that more content options (contrary to what I said above a bit), maybe just an Incarnate level TF that actually lets heroes and villains kind of revel in how much stronger they've become and the amount of push and pull they can have on the world around them now. No more just being someone else's stooge or waiting for the next disaster to strike. Heroes proactively doing things to help the little guys and villains being able to stone-wall big name heroes and have it be in the glory and victory of the villains themselves, not Arachnos, not anyone else, them.
• Repeatable faction contacts: might overlap with the one for vigilante and rogues. But I sort of like the idea of just being able to run not!radios/tips in Kallisti. Bonus points if instead of all being one-off missions sometimes you get two parters or even three part mini-arcs.
• As mentioned above: for the stories to not just be set in kallisti wharf, but kind of explore the lore, history, and story of Kallisti.
• Praetorian Refugee dealings: well I'd actually prefer to eek away from this, there's kind of a refugee camp right in a park that's hard to ignore.

3.As far as roaming villains go, as mentioned, I'd like it if heroes and villains needed to basically actively spawn them, and I think making the mobs in the overworld 'level-less' could allow us to explore some groups that don't get too much exposure or development and how they've taken the shifts in things with all the new developments that have gone down. For example, the Legacy Chain and Wyvern for villains while heroes delve into the Outcasts and Family. This could include some factional power tweaks to make them more diverse and/or more powerful too.

 

4.Some miscellaneous ideas would include possibly making a bar/club for heroes and villains on their respective sides as another RP gathering point. Have the Villainside one be a cozy speakeasy hidden in the basement that's existed since Prohibition Era of some other store while the hero bar is sort of a beer garden on the roof of a skyscrapper (like the rooftop garden building at the way north east corner). Also would like to see the geometry outside the warwalls to exist and maybe include the zone roof since as of now you can just fly over the warwalls and into the oblivion beyond, this could be a good way to recycle assets from Praetoria's 'low-res zone mockups' to present a more modern city outside the walls than just bland square boxes too, you know, assuming we wouldn't just make it open wilderness outside the walls.

 

But that's all just my take and honestly, as you can see it's not too well fleshed out.

[Black Zot]

Zone optimization first, everything else later.  I haven't had any problems myself, but I've seen it happen to others, and I know from experience what it's like to be having issues and getting brushed off by those that don't.  (Steam's literal-migraine-inducing revamp, for example.)

 

Much like the rest of the game's codebase, better to straighten the spaghetti now than to tack on a bunch of content and THEN try to fix underlying issues without knocking over the big heap of stuff piled on top.

[MTeague]

• I would love to see the Family explored more.  Not just misc thugs in suits shaking people down on the streets of Independance Port, but stories where they play SERIOUS HARDBALL, maybe even putting a mission contact in the ground as you get too close, and then you have to continue to find other leads to chase them down rather than being pointed to a new contact as normal.  Also have them start using high-tech weapons, not just tommyguns.  There's been enough Rikti tech, Portal Corp tech, praetorian tech, arachnos tech, crey tech, you can't tell me a serious crime sydicate couldn't have gotten ahold of some goods, and found ways to ensure a steady supply.  There's Gangster World Family mobs in Portal Tech missions, lets see some shadows of that in Primal Earth with lvl 45+ high powered wiseguys.
• I would also love to see two other factions opposing the Family in the zone
  • The Outcasts.  We know from tip missions and time travel that Frostfire becomes a Big Deal. Lets see some hints of that. Have him try to organize "his people" to create a few areas that are Off Limits to the Family, where even the Family fears to tread.  And maybe some of Frostfire's people have to get a bit on the Vigilante side in order keep those protected sections actually protected. 
  • The Syndicate.  Yep, I'm talking Praetorian Wu Yin here.  Lots of people had to evacuate Preatoria, and I think he's enough of a survivor to have made the trip, and probably got at least some of his people out as well.  This could be an opposition to the Family where it could get very very grey, who's really a more long term problem than the other?   Also, I would love to see at least one interaction between Praetorian Wu Yin and Primal Earth Penelope Yin.  She's NOT his daughter, but it might help him get some closure or sense of what his daughter might have been like had Praetor Tillman not claimed her.  And maybe it would allow for a Darth Vader / Luke Skywalker moment where Praetorian Wu Yin simply can't let something bad happen to even an alternate universe Penelope Yin during a TF confrontation. 

[Troo]

Joking aside. Maybe there is an opportunity for some fresh well written content.

[Turric]

I am putting in another vote for the Family. And Tsoo also. Those two factions were under utilized and explored.

[KC4800]

Level 50 Praetorian Family(the ones with the beam rifles) have to be some part of the zone, trying to control the goings on over near the sports stadium that's being built, perhaps in a battle with the Syndicate for control. 

 

Rogue Vanguard popping up instead of Malta.  Hiding in back alleys and dark doorways.

[Golden Azrael]

18 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Populated with underused factions for the range.

 

Task force that discuss the history of kalista, perhaps with villains trying to go legit and heroes who fall from grace.

 

GM spawns at random: lusca, and something new, Dev pick

 

Door missions and contacts styled like IP and skyway contacts, but with cleaner backstory.

 

Don't overdo it with the praetorian stuff, I get it but it's really kind of... Meh. I'd rather gold side was improved for that.

 

Please, no more spiders. Arachnos are all over, and honestly, not that scary. No hamidon, he already took over 3 zones. We all know he's a baddie.

 

Just for a start.

Some good ideas there for starters.

 

Kalista.

 

It's a cross between Atlas and I.P to me.  There's a few zone flavours in there.  A beautiful zone.  Commendable work.

 

But it needs it's own 'soul' zone wise.  (The new graphics team in the post Cryptic split...their work, whilst good, could be too clean and souless at times.  You see that in the new additions to the old warehouse maps.  It's glaring.)

 

I'd like to see some of Galaxy's urban critters in the grungier parts of the zone.  So it could combine Galaxy's grunge alongside Atlas's more heroic challenge with some IP zone elements.  Council.  Family(!)  Tsoo.  Outcasts (from Steel, love them...)  Some Council and Vamps from Bricks (they got kicked out of Bricks?) and Helions from Atlas/Galaxy.  Something like that.  Celebrating some of the good zones.  Perhaps even the Warriors from Talos.  Kalista should be a celebration of City of Heroes zones.  Maybe even fit some Trolls in any secret caves in Kalista...  Have them hit like a truck.

 

But I'm betraying my favourite zones and mobs there. 😉

 

And for those complaining about Spam trollers and Incarnate rolling teams...

 

...perhaps some Level shifted missions or stories so we have a 'post 50 zone' that supercedes P.Isle at top of the tree rather than limited shift level content only on trials and such forth.  Perhaps fill the zone out with AE work (dev's choice...) to start with.

 

Great zone needing content.  It's top of the tree, zone wise to me.  So I'd expect to see many mob factions vying for supremacy there...?

 

Azrael.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

20 hours ago, GM Miss said:

Weekly discussion 51 - Week 5/17/20-5/23/20:

⚔️YOU VOTED: Lets talk about what you would like to see done to Kallisti Wharf!⚔️

 

❓ Things to think about:

>What is your vision for KW?
>What storylines or task forces would you like to see added?
>What enemies would you like to see roaming the streets (if any!)

 

Don't just use these prompts, talk about whatever you want from this weeks prompt!

 

Let's Chat 😄

Atlas vs Independence Port.

 

The Mobs vying for Supremacy.  A power struggle of epic proportions.  With actual AVs wandering the streets or hitting you with a surprise attack if you stay TOO LONG in their territory...(ie you're going to get booted out certain parts of the streets if you stray too close to the villain base....as part of those gangs maybe...with their lackey big monsters popping up in surprise attacks.  (You could have certain missions as AV mission bases in unassuming warehouses..., 'Uh oh...Maestro is here...'  Randon spawns of AVs too maybe.  You get to know where these AVs hang out over time.  And you'll need help to take them down, especially if below L50.

 

This becomes the storyline.  You could weave the mobs from Atlas to Hollows to Kings to Steel to IP to Talos to Bricks to Founders to P.I in a round robbin conflict reflected on the streets ie via their presence...occosionarlly spawning AV faction leader for each mob...on the street or IN missions...(more of a surprise element) and more thoroughly pollinated through a TF...where we get the 'low down' on the power struggle as Frostfire...Maestro and Dr. V face off for 'King of the AV hill...' in Kallista.

 

It maybe even fun to see two AVs spilling their conflict onto the street.  Eg. Frostfire and Dr. Vahz get down to it...with mobs pulled into the conflict...and players caught off guard...do they call for help?  or tackle them alone? :OO

 

Forces.  Hellions.  Outcasts.  Trolls.  Skulls.  MOAR Outcasts.  Warriors.  Tsoo.  Council.  Family.  MoAR Council.  Crey.  Nemesis.  (Maybe some Malta...)

 

NOOOOOOOO....Arachnos.  They suck, mahn.

 

So those are my ideas because they are the zones and the mobs I associate CoH with most fondly as you progress through the game and a relief to some of the end game mobs like Carnie, Nems, Arachnos that debuff you to death.  (That can get tiresome...) 

 

Malta...not as bad.  They could be included in Kalista.

 

Azrael.

 

 

[artemisalpha]

I like the "No Praetorians, No Arachnos" themes that have been running along here. I agree with what other people are saying - do the optimization, and then check to see what top level groups don't get interacted with much, and bring them to Kalisti. 50 Family and Tsoo do sound like a good start. Given the preponderance of radio teams, probably 50 council aren't a good choice. I like the rogue Vanguard idea. And more Nemesis is always fun. Maybe some Ruraluu invasions. Pretty much - anything that we're not seeing a ton of, increase its frequency by putting it here.

 

AA

[ArchVileTerror]

I'll be a strong dissenting voice and say "Yay" to Arachnos.  They clearly already have a presence in Kallisti.  I think that should be built off of and explored more deeply.  Arachnos has a LOT of potential, but writing for them is often split between treating them like a complete joke, and taking them seriously.  I feel there's a line that can be walked down the middle.  Serious, but with enough comedic beats as to remain fresh and engaging, rather than demoralizing.

 

In other words:  Include Arachnos, but take care and take your time in ensuring their involvement is written well.

[johnnysc]

Just spit balling here, but how about a zone that celebrates the game by using NPCs from the earlier story arcs, radio/paper missions, mayhem/safeguard missions and morality missions as contacts for new mission arcs and task/strike forces of different level ranges.  Fusionette is already a trainer in this zone, so this kind of expands on that.

 

For example, let's have the Frostfire strike force, where the former villain brings you in to help fight a mystical threat created when some Hellions fooled around with some very dangerous artifacts.  (Yes, I know some players may have killed him in some vigilante tip mission, but hey, he reformed in the mission I ran 🙂 ).

[Sakura Tenshi]

1 hour ago, ArchVileTerror said:

I'll be a strong dissenting voice and say "Yay" to Arachnos.  They clearly already have a presence in Kallisti.  I think that should be built off of and explored more deeply.  Arachnos has a LOT of potential, but writing for them is often split between treating them like a complete joke, and taking them seriously.  I feel there's a line that can be walked down the middle.  Serious, but with enough comedic beats as to remain fresh and engaging, rather than demoralizing.

 

In other words:  Include Arachnos, but take care and take your time in ensuring their involvement is written well.

Thing is, we get plenty of development for Arachnos. Heroside has the Faultline Arcs, Aaron Thiery Arc, and the Miss Liberty Arc, and Redside Arachnos is shoved down your throat and up your @#$ from the Tutorial to level 50 and you can never fully get away from them except a handful of TFs and Arcs, most of which are newer stuff because the live devs realized 'oh, players don't like being facedown in Recluse's lap'.

 

And the only time Arachnos is really written as a joke, as I can see, is Newspapers and Tip Missions. Well, that and Arachnos' ability to invade US soil with absolute impunity in flagrant ways that would get any other country nuked off the damn map.

[RadicalRay]

Two Words: Batallion Invasion!

[Infinitum]

Crazy stuff like shadow shard GM and AV, jade spider, maybe even Battallion stuff.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Infinitum

[Zep]

Joint Red/Blue TF's (more)

 

Quests with its own overarching story line.

 

A mix of old and new mobs befitting its red/blue status.

 

lvl 50+ content

 

The zone is (IMO) very pretty and nicely built yet at the same time soulless due to the lack of NPCs and content.

 

Did I say some red/blue (/gold) content? Maybe across all levels.

 

More Rogue/Vigilante content.

 

[Darmian]

A vote for getting the geometry fixed, you know what it is and where. A history badge added, as there's 7 plaques dotted around the place. And it has a similar glass dome rooftop garden to Atlas, I'd like to see a showdown on that tiny map!

 

More when I'm not so tired!