Could self flagging for pvp in any zone be a thing?

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, Frostbiter said:

This isn't a parachute it's a blanket!

 

[Frostbiter]

39 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

 

I'm sorry but Friends is better than Spongebob 😝

[Frostbiter]

Oh c'mon! I throw out bait for a meme-off and no one takes it? I am severely disappointed in you internet. 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Frostbiter

[ImpousVileTerror]

 

(Been a while since I deployed one of these.)

 

 

 

But, back on topic:  Yeah, would be nice.  Feasible?  Not likely.  It would definitely open the door for a lot of roleplay potential!  And gameplay potential.  But the level of groundwork necessary, and the number of risks and points of failure with the code, and the number of players that it would upset . . . well . . .  

I mean, it's wonderful to dream!  And, who knows?  A savant might come along and join Homecoming (if they haven't already, and we just don't know it yet), and discover an amazingly simple and elegant means of implementing that level of player-versus-player, so it doesn't hurt any of us to dream and to make suggestions . . . 

But really, it's going to take something big and dramatic to inspire the Devs to make changes on that scale.  

[Frostbiter]

We haven't had a savant since one of the intern programmers  accidentally fixed the special Hover pose. True story btw. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Frostbiter

[DoctorDitko]

1 hour ago, Frostbiter said:

We haven't had a savant since one of the intern programmers  accidentally fixed the special Hover pose. True story btw. 

Details?

Those of us with Hover want to know!

[macskull]

I've got the OP ignored for myriad reasons but based on the replies I've read so far I'm guessing the post was something like:

1. I want to be able to flag myself as non-PvP in a PvP zone because other people are mean and keep killing me when I'm trying to get badges or temp powers but
2. I also want to be able to flag myself as PvP in non-PvP zones because I want to be able to have open world PvP a la Champions Online

Regarding item one, if you don't want to engage in PvP just... I dunno, stay out of PvP zones? There's nothing that's required for the game in those zones, and for the most part the badges/temp powers offer a reward commensurate with the risk. Plus, y'know, unless you're in RV on Indomitable the odds you're going to run into someone who's there for PvP and not badge hunting like you is pretty low. Regarding item two, the game's PvP population is small enough as it is (the Homecoming PvP Discord has, as of this post, 1314 members) and spreading that population out even further reduces the likelihood you'll ever find someone to PvP against. The game already has mechanisms in place to PvP from anywhere at any time, and because of the way PvE/PvP powers separation works, it isn't actually possible to enforce some of the PvP-specific mechanics changes in non-PvP zones.

 

EDIT: Apparently after reading the last shitstorm thread that got locked, you could potentially interpret some of the posts there and here as saying if a player is in a PvP zone and has said they want to be left alone (aka not engage in PvP in a zone existing expressly for that purpose) then you cannot continue to PvP, even if you're trying to get a PvP IO, and even if that person is the only other one in the zone. That seems a little ridiculous to me. Is that what @GM Widoweris saying?

 

EDIT 2: Just for clarity, because I'm sure I'll be accused of being one of the types that sits in PvP zones and waits to gank someone over and over again... no, I won't do that. I'm like the majority of players who tend to go into PvP zones mostly for badges and accolades (unless it's RV) but if I see another player I will probably attempt some PvP. I might kill you a few times but I won't continually follow you around over and over and over.

Edited July 12, 2020 by macskull
I accidentally a word, and then added some stuff.

[Frostbiter]

1 hour ago, DoctorDitko said:

Details?

Those of us with Hover want to know!

Hover used to just use the basic fly pose instead of the floaty upright pose it uses now due to an animation bug. Those were dark days. The dev who became Castle accidentally fixed it when working on the new fly emotes. He is also responsible for Power Customization IIRC.

[ImpousVileTerror]

I thought Power Customization was Chris "Back Alley Brawler" Bruce?

[Apparition]

2 hours ago, macskull said:

EDIT: Apparently after reading the last shitstorm thread that got locked, you could potentially interpret some of the posts there and here as saying if a player is in a PvP zone and has said they want to be left alone (aka not engage in PvP in a zone existing expressly for that purpose) then you cannot continue to PvP, even if you're trying to get a PvP IO, and even if that person is the only other one in the zone. That seems a little ridiculous to me. Is that what @GM Widoweris saying?

 

EDIT 2: Just for clarity, because I'm sure I'll be accused of being one of the types that sits in PvP zones and waits to gank someone over and over again... no, I won't do that. I'm like the majority of players who tend to go into PvP zones mostly for badges and accolades (unless it's RV) but if I see another player I will probably attempt some PvP. I might kill you a few times but I won't continually follow you around over and over and over.

 

Yes.  The OP stated that "Now that Homecoming has changed its policy and you can now report PvPers for harassment by engaging in PvP in PvP zones, let's make all zones opt-in PvP."  GM Widower clarified that Homecoming has not changed its policy and allowed open season on reporting PvPers for engaging in PvP.

[Widower]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

 

Yes.  The OP stated that "Now that Homecoming has changed its policy and you can now report PvPers for harassment by engaging in PvP in PvP zones, let's make all zones opt-in PvP."  GM Widower clarified that Homecoming has not changed its policy and allowed open season on reporting PvPers for engaging in PvP.

Yes, that.

 

Furthermore, I should note that the harassment policy is not new. It's older than the current CoC itself - there's a draft kicking around somewhere with a much beefier policy. Don't use it in bad faith, please.

[macskull]

Ugh that definitely wasn't a thing on live. You'd figure the warning entering a PvP zone would be enough but...

[Widower]

21 minutes ago, macskull said:

Ugh that definitely wasn't a thing on live. You'd figure the warning entering a PvP zone would be enough but...

Okay, I'll say it a third time. No, the thing you're afraid of isn't a thing. Yes, you can PvP people who don't want to be PvP'd.

[FallenHero]

What are the default settings for enemy faction chat (PvP Zones)?

 

I remember when I zone pvp'ed on the live servers enemy chat was obnoxious. On other games I have played enemy chat is disabled by default. On homecoming, is enemy chat disabled by default? I always assumed it was. But after reading these threads about PvP badges it sounds like that isn't the case. Thinking back to all of those hours I spent in Siren's Call on the live servers, if anyone had asked me to leave them alone I would have never known they were attempting to communicate with me. Although it is pretty easy to tell when people don't want to fight (they don't fight back). I always left them alone unless they popped up as my bounty.

 

Homecoming is the first server I have encountered where you can be punished for PvPing in a PvP zone. That is odd to me. But it is their server, so their rules. In my experience on Excelsior, PvP zones are empty. But it would be nice if the "rules" defined in the OP where stated clearly when you enter a zone. I think anyone who enter Siren's Call and attacks another player would be surprised if they got punished for their actions.

[Frostbiter]

7 hours ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

I thought Power Customization was Chris "Back Alley Brawler" Bruce?

BABS was Lead GFX Designer for 10 years and the official stance was that it would take too much work to implement.  Castle became Lead Power Designer within 2 years because he cracked how to do it. He came on in 2007 and was promoted by 2009. We got Power Customization in Issue 16. They both worked on it but AFAIK Castle was the genius behind implementing the system that enabled it. I may be doing him an injustice by calling him an intern, he was more likely just a new hire. Castle left when NCSoft took over in 2010. BABS stayed on.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

7 hours ago, GM Widower said:

Okay, I'll say it a third time. No, the thing you're afraid of isn't a thing. Yes, you can PvP people who don't want to be PvP'd.

Well its kinda funny because it was your post in another thread that kinda inspired this along with a few player posts in the same thread

 

PSA: Harassment (being defined as continuing to interact with a player after being asked to stop) is against the CoC.

 

The above was posted by you, and the conversation that followed after( what there was that was actual conversation) seemed to suggest the above included those in pvp zones asking others to not bother them.

 

So at what point does pvp turn into harassment? as in most pvp games there are rules against griefing and ganking to help keep that kind of pvp in check even in open world pvp zones.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Bentley Berkeley

[arcane]

9 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

as in most pvp games there are rules against griefing and ganking to help keep that kind of pvp in check even in open world pvp zones.

Every MMO I've ever played has been the same as the CoH dynamic you seem to hate. Some sort of arena and some sort of pvp zone that you can either avoid or risk being killed in. The kind of game you seem to want to play is the kind I haven't seen yet.

 

That being said I've only played 3 major MMO's so maybe someone else can comment here.

[Coyotedancer]

In Aion, ganking "soft targets" (That is to say, making easy kills out of any member of the opposing faction, in particular those who have little to no chance of defending themselves-) at every opportunity was pretty much a way of life. Ask to be left alone and you'd get laughed out of the game in a hail of "KED!"s and accusations of being a Carebear. AFTER they killed you. Probably repeatedly.

 

That's typical PvP. (And why they ended up adding the non-PvP "rookie server" for leveling-)

"Oh, would you be so kind as to leave me be whilst I collect these Shivans, good sir?" really.... isn't.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[Bionic_Flea]

5 hours ago, FallenHero said:

Homecoming is the first server I have encountered where you can be punished for PvPing in a PvP zone

It's not.  You cannot be punished for PvPing in a PvP zone.

 

[Bionic_Flea]

38 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

So at what point does pvp turn into harassment? as in most pvp games there are rules against griefing and ganking to help keep that kind of pvp in check even in open world pvp zones.

PvP never turns into harassment.  You consented to PvP the moment you entered "the ring" (zone or arena).  If you don't want to engage in PvP don't enter the zone, or leave if you do enter and encounter an opponent.  The worst thing that happens is that your character gets knocked out and sent to a nice, clean hospital right by the exit door.

 

Now, if someone starts saying hateful things in a PvP zone either while ganking someone or getting ganked, then they can be disciplined for saying hateful things.

[Xanatos]

45 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Well its kinda funny because it was your post in another thread that kinda inspired this along with a few player posts in the same thread

 

PSA: Harassment (being defined as continuing to interact with a player after being asked to stop) is against the CoC.

 

The above was posted by you, and the conversation that followed after( what there was that was actual conversation) seemed to suggest the above included those in pvp zones asking others to not bother them.

 

So at what point does pvp turn into harassment? as in most pvp games there are rules against griefing and ganking to help keep that kind of pvp in check even in open world pvp zones.

 

[Twisted Toon]

54 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Well its kinda funny because it was your post in another thread that kinda inspired this along with a few player posts in the same thread

 

PSA: Harassment (being defined as continuing to interact with a player after being asked to stop) is against the CoC.

 

The above was posted by you, and the conversation that followed after( what there was that was actual conversation) seemed to suggest the above included those in pvp zones asking others to not bother them.

 

So at what point does pvp turn into harassment? as in most pvp games there are rules against griefing and ganking to help keep that kind of pvp in check even in open world pvp zones.

I know it can be difficult in this day and age, but that thing called common sense can be used to determine when "continuing to interact with another player after being asked to stop" is harassment.

 

continuing to use the slap emote on someone standing at the train station after they have repeatedly asked you to stop would, in my opinion, be considered harassment.

Attacking the same person multiple times in a PvP zone, would not be considered harassment.

 

There are some caveats to that last one, however.

If you are intentionally hunting only that one person in the PvP zone when they just want to be left alone, I would consider that harassment.

But, the way to avoid that would be to leave the PvP zone.

[Wobegone]

1 hour ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Well its kinda funny because it was your post in another thread that kinda inspired this along with a few player posts in the same thread

 

PSA: Harassment (being defined as continuing to interact with a player after being asked to stop) is against the CoC.

 

The above was posted by you, and the conversation that followed after( what there was that was actual conversation) seemed to suggest the above included those in pvp zones asking others to not bother them.

 

So at what point does pvp turn into harassment? as in most pvp games there are rules against griefing and ganking to help keep that kind of pvp in check even in open world pvp zones.

You're overstating the 'conversation that followed'.  There was exactly one player who stated that "Hey this is good to know.  Now I can report all the people in PvP zones for attacking me when I asked them to stop interacting with me! cool!", and that poster seemed to me to be mostly sarcastic as he'd just finished defending what others had pointed out WAS harrassment. 

No likes, and outside of a single lukewarm post in partial agreement, the few responses that followed were in disagreement with his PVP statement as well.  At this point I assume you're being deliberately obtuse and I'm hoping this thread gets shut down as well.     

[Dazl]

The only real kind of harassment in a PvP game would be doing something like camping the re-spawn spot to kill someone every time they re-spawned, which can't be done here.

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

It's not.  You cannot be punished for PvPing in a PvP zone.

 

This is correct.

 

Some people just don't understand the difference between PvPing and being an asshat.

 

It's a PvP zone, not an asshat zone.