effectiveness of Medicine Pool?

[cohRock]

I am planning a tentative build for a dark/storm controller.  He can heal others but not himself.  Plus, it looks like mid-career and later, endurance might become an issue.  How well might the Medicine Pool be at alleviating both problems?  I'd need 3 of its powers:

 

• Injection: alleviate an ally's status debuff, or debuff an opponent
• Aid Self: self-heal
• Field Medic: enhances all healing powers (according to MID's Reborn), and gives Aid Self the extra benefit of improving endurace recovery

 

Alternatively, those three power slots could be assigned to Recall Friend, Assault, and Tactics.  How effective will the Medicine Pool be in battle?  Is it worth the sacrifice of the other three Pool powers?

 

 

[0th Power]

With an interruption enhancement or two, aid self and other are useable in battle 

[macskull]

There are far better options to use your power pool picks on. Going 3 powers deep just to get some +end from Aid Self is sort of a waste and if you invest a modest amount in IO set bonuses you can make yourself pretty damn tanky. Steamy Mist is really good for boosting defense and resistance.

[MTeague]

If you do not have very high defense, you won't be able to use Aid Self / Aid Other when things are attacking you.

 

EDIT:  that said, I use it on my Claws/SR scrapper and it's nice.  But that is a tricked out /SR build.

Edited July 21, 2020 by MTeague

[roleki]

Based on my own experience running a Dark/Storm, I would be surprised if you ran into a need for anything out of the Medicine Pool.  It's just a very underwhelming group of powers, especially since you can beat its output with an inspiration macro.

 

As mentioned earlier in this thread, you would be better served with Maneuvers and Tactics; Maneuvers is kind of not worth slotting beyond a LotG +Rech, but a couple of +ToHits dumped into Tactics goes a long way towards hitting things that are above your weight class. 

 

As far as Endurance goes... bear with me on this.  To my mind, outside of +Rech, nothing is more important to a Controller than Endurance management; as such, my default config on a Controller is to 3-slot Health with the uniques out of Miracle, Numina's, and Panacea then 3-slot Stamina with 2x Synapse (EndMod/EndMod+Run) and PShift+End.  First chance I get, I grab the Atlas Medallion (super easy) for a free +5 Max Endurance, which also makes the slotted +Recovery a little more effective.   If I am still hurting for endurance, I'll go Cardiac Alpha, which is not a bad call on Dark because you get a 20% range bump on your cones which is huge. 

 

Anyway, I say all that to bring up that slotted like that, my Dark/Storm *still* chews through Endurance BUT recovers it super fast; hold off of one click and it's all back again.  It's better on a /Storm because in theory, you may not be 'doing' anything, but your Lightning Storm/Tornado/Freezing Rain are still registering hits while you take a drink.  

[Scientist]

I've run a couple of Storms to 50, and don't think the Medicine pool is worth it.  If you play Storm right, not much is hitting you, so you can rely on keeping a few green insps around.  If you solo a lot, I'd worry more about being mezzed, THAT's when you tend to die as a squishy.  Insps is the only answer to that problem, until you get high enough level to really keep all the foes flopping around.  

 

I would suggest taking and slotting Hurricane, that helps a lot with "defense", but be judicious in its use, it is hard on the blue bar.  You will also want knockback to knockdown converters in a lot of powers, unless your AoE Immob takes care of that.  

[DoctorDitko]

I have a radical idea. Have you considered 4-slotting Stamina?

Power Transfer End Mod and Chance to Heal self (gets you 6% Regen as a set bonus), with Performance Shifter Chance for +END, and a regular ol' End mod IO (boosted to 50+5 when available) essentially took care of my Stormie's END issues.

 

In Health (also 4 slots) she has a Panacea, Numina's Regen/Recovery, a Miracle +Rec, and a Miracle Heal (which grant a +2.5% set bonus to recovery).

 

Grab the Atlas Medallion, as roleki says, and you should be pretty good. Portal Jockey accolade helps, too. Together they add 10% to your END, 5% HP, and these boost every source of heal and endrec as well.

 

It's kind of odd that the Health procs benefit END and the Stamina procs tend to help HP, but that's the way it works. The synergy is excellent!

 

PS: Scientist is quite right about Hurricane, it's the main defense provided to Stormies. Don't put a KB->KD in that one, you want it to make the bad guys back off. An END reducer is a good idea, though. With practice, it makes an excellent herding tool.

Edited July 21, 2020 by DoctorDitko

[cohRock]

Thanks everyone.  Sounds like he should stick with Assault and Tactics.  I didn't remember about the end procs in inventions sets, so that will be a long term goal.  I made "Too Much of Anything" already, but he's a villain, so the Atlas Medallion won't work for him.  There seems to be an equivalent Villain Badge, Marshall.  Eventually  he will become rogue to gain access to hero-side, but obtaining the Atlas badge is not sufficient for villains or rogues.

Edited July 21, 2020 by cohRock

[DoctorDitko]

Portal Jockey is actually easier to get redside.

Lord Schweinzer gives out all the Mayhem missions you need to get the exploration badges for.

He unlocks by killing 25 "heroes" which can be Freedom Phalanx. Or switch to blueside and run the Brickstown Signature Arc.

When you see him, tell him "Talk about something else" to any mission he offers you.

The you can pick them Mayhem missions in order, which helps to keep track.

All you need is the exploration badges, you don't need to win the missions. Vidiotmaps is your friend.

 

[MTeague]

2 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

PS: Scientist is quite right about Hurricane, it's the main defense provided to Stormies.

This I agree with completely.  I've been in love with Hurricane since the first time I ever used it in 2006 or so. 

Hurricane is a monstrously large To-Hit Debuff.  If you savage your enemies to hit by 30%, that's like giving yourself (and everyone else on your team) 30% defense.  

It's not exactly the same thing, but it's pretty darn close.  

2 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

Don't put a KB->KD in that one, you want it to make the bad guys back off. An END reducer is a good idea, though. With practice, it makes an excellent herding tool.

This I have to disagree with though.  My Storm Defender is at his absolute safest when things are in melee range, under the effect of Hurricane, consistently missing him again, and again, and again.  If they're hurled back by KB, they might stand up and shoot from a distance and once the debuff wears off, they'd be able to hit me.  If they're never thrown back, the to-hit debuff is consistently applied.  Yes, there's still a slight Repel effect, but it's not toooo strong and mobs seem plenty able to foolishly run right back into the to-hit debuff.

 

I seem to have far less END issues on my storm def than most people are saying, but, he's a defender, not a controller, and he's not constantly spamming any kind of AE immob. Those tend to be expensive.  All I've got for my stormie is Perf Shifter +Chance For End, Perf Shifter EndMod, and a Miracle in Health. 

 

He does have 3 different set bonuses for "-% to endurance cost for all powers", though. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by MTeague

[DoctorDitko]

I think the debuff from Hurricane extends far beyond either the sfx or the knockback, but I'll test to be sure.

 

And I know that guys picking themselves up off the floor aren't attacking effectively! But fair enough. Do you find having KB-KD impairs your ability to herd mobs into corners? It seemed to, to me.

 

 

 

[MTeague]

The To-Hit Debuff (and the Repel) both extend a few feet beyond the visible swirl of Hurricane.  I don't think very far, but if the Repel moves them, they've been debuffed.

 

As far as Herding, it may depends how you prefer to channel them. 

 

Usually on my defender, if I'm soloing, I either do not herd, or I corner pull and use Freezing Rain as soon as they're clumped up. 

 

When I'm teamed, it's almost never my defender doing any pulls / herding.  Either the team is steamrolling eveyrthing and there is no pulling, just killing, OR, there's a Tanker who rounds things up, and I just play goalie with Hurricane, using the repel to push things back into melee range.  I find I'm more surgically able to reposition things with the Repel effect, but i admit, I have not yet played a FF Defender or a Kin who made heavy use of the PBAE Knockback aura.  It's possible I just haven't practiced the technique you outline enough.  (/em add alts to backlog...)

 

I also Gale KB-To-KD to just drop an entire squad of foes on their butts all at once, to interfere with an Alpha strike, and of course for the lulz.  Maybe not the most practical power selection, but it's fun. And I have bought people needed time with it. 

[roleki]

47 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I also Gale KB-To-KD to just drop an entire squad of foes on their butts all at once, to interfere with an Alpha strike, and of course for the lulz.  Maybe not the most practical power selection, but it's fun. And I have bought people needed time with it. 

If you haven't already, put a FF+Rech in there while you're at it.  The KB:KD and FF+Rech turn Gale from a power you might occasionally fire during cooldown and into a power that keeps the grinder churning.

[Sovera]

The medicine pool is... kinda bad, like 90% of the pools. There's a reason Fighting, Leadership and Speed with Flight/Leaping for travel are pegged in nearly all builds and if those three were removed I'm not even sure what I would bother taking.

 

Aid-Self at first glance seems good, and then we notice the monstrous 4.5 second animation for a 30% heal, who can then be interrupted. Not even with maxed interrupt reduction will it go off if we are standing on fire or caltrops. It's only use is for kiting. Hover away from danger and heal and it will be okay, but 30% is nothing special. At best it has a 6 second recharge which makes it look good, hey, we heal 30% every six seconds!, but in practice with the 4.5 second animation turns it into an 11 second recharge and it returns to mediocre land.

 

Like all other power pools barring those mentioned on top.

 

No one knows what Field Medic does. Not even the combat attributes. It sort of shows us getting an extra 5 points of endurance, which I suppose does give more recovery since recovery is based of the % of endurance.

 

So basically it is old and obsolete. Carry greens to heal if needed. Carry medical packs from the P2W since we can carry far more of those than greens. Carry Recovery Serums also from the P2W and save yourself three powers.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Sovera

[Bonkleberry]

I am not sure if this has been covered yet, but only the ally heal, rez, healing buff are really of any use in the medicine pool powerset.

 

Since you already have access to O2 Boost, the Heal Other is a pointless pick.

 

I have never seen anybody pick the Injection for self use and fhe debuff is meh.

 

The heal self is NOT useful during combat. It has something like a 4 second cast time and can be interrupted. In the heat of the moment, if you spam the power to get it to go off, you will just interupt yourself several times and waste endurance (the endurance cost goes off when you hit the power, whether it healed or not).

 

I suppose some teams will be happy for the rez ability, but rezes are often skipped powers in general.

 

In the end, you would need essentially two pointless power picks to get the small endurance from the last power.

[macskull]

The rez ability also has the dubious distinction of being the longest-animating power in the game (short of P2W teleport powers) at 7.33 seconds with a 4-second interrupt period at the beginning you can't get rid of.

[cohRock]

I am surprised at the unanimity -- "don't bother with the Medicine Pool."  Nothing to add, really -- I just thought someone might defend it.

[kiramon]

On 7/21/2020 at 2:04 PM, MTeague said:

If you do not have very high defense, you won't be able to use Aid Self / Aid Other when things are attacking you.

 

EDIT:  that said, I use it on my Claws/SR scrapper and it's nice.  But that is a tricked out /SR build.

I think you can pick up Heal Other/Field Medic as a Defender without a heal in the early levels - where teaming is rough, nobody has IOs (not really a thing anymore), and they sorta rely on the defender "to heal." 

 

That being said, after that it's not needed - and when the defender builds flesh out they tend to be able to "do their job" without healing other people... 

 

I don't even heal other people on my healers, lol. Not directly, anyways. 

[Black Zot]

2 hours ago, cohRock said:

I am surprised at the unanimity -- "don't bother with the Medicine Pool."  Nothing to add, really -- I just thought someone might defend it.

 

Medicine is pretty much the weakest non-epic pool in the game.  The long interrupt times all but guarantee the heals will never go off when you actually need them - ie when you're under attack and need all the effective health you can get.  If your defenses are that high that you can actually cast Aid Self, odds are you rarely need it because you're not getting hit to begin with.

[LiquidBandage]

5 hours ago, cohRock said:

I am surprised at the unanimity -- "don't bother with the Medicine Pool."  Nothing to add, really -- I just thought someone might defend it.

I have Aid Other, Aid Self & Field Medic on my FF/Psi Defender.

 

Out of all those powers, I get the most mileage out of Aid Other. The boost of Field Medic just doesn't feel significant enough to justify the pick or the activation time. I still use it if it is up before I try to heal myself. And then we come to Aid Self, it is useful if you have enough defense to make it through the activation cycle. I run Dispersion Bubble, Maneuvers & Combat Jumping and it doesn't feel like enough to reliably get a heal off. If I am deep in the muck, trying to heal myself is usually a waste of time. Where it is useful is if I take splash damage and there is no other healer in the group. If I am not the focus target or I can jump out of the fray, I can heal myself just fine.

 

Overall it is a useful power to keep yourself functional as the group chews through things. Do not think that it is a self heal like you would find in a primary pool. Think of it as a Rest where you don't have to kneel down. 

[DoctorDitko]

I think I have to concur, though, that the p2w Rez, End boost, and self-heal pretty much obviate the Med Pool. It could use some serious Dev love. As it stands, skip it!

 

Disclaimer: Not a medical doctor. Do not take medical advice from Doctor Ditko.

[Sir Myshkin]

True story: I took Medicine on my "MAN" build Traps/AR(Fighting) Defender because I thought it would be an amusing shtick to play up during lulls in attacks or something. I hardly ever used it, I just couldn't be bothered to make the effort when it was simpler to just run over and Kick whatever was causing the offense than to try and save the player indirectly. In truth, Provoke would've been more useful than Aid Other ever proved to be.

 

But then again I'm considerably Mad as who would Tank with a Traps Defender?!

<-- This guy.

[Heraclea]

I tried them on Heraclea early in her Homecoming career in an attempt to make her even tankier and more useful on teams.  Did not work and respecced out very quickly.  Anything interruptible is useless on a tanker. 

[Doomguide2005]

Another vote no.  I have both Aid Self and Aid Another on my Claws/SR.  I've almost never used them in combat and rarely out of combat.  They are set mules giving her +hit points and +regen set bonuses ... so in a sense they are constantly healing her 😜

[Turric]

I am also going to cast my vote against Medicine. In my opinion, the entire pool is almost total garbage. Field Medic would be possibly ok to somewhat interesting if it weren't for the other powers before. I've tried it on several characters, most recently my dark/fire dominator and repeatedly disappoints me to the point I respec out.