What happened? Did I miss something?

[Mageman]

I haven't been in Paragon city much lately. I've been busy IRL. Now that I have a chance, I come back and find even more changes since I left.

 

Before I left, they took out double Inf if you turned off XP. Now, it seems that the AE has been turned down even more. It seems that I'm getting about 1/2 of what I did AFTER they turned off the double Inf. What I mean is 1/2 XP, 1/2 Inf, and 1/2 the drops (recipes, salvage, and enhancements).

 

Is there a patch that happened to do this? For me, farming was a way to give my alts some starting Inf for stuff from the PTW vendor - everything I purchased on live (Rocket Board, Flying Carpet, Inner Inspiration, etc.) or from Vet rewards. For all that, I'd give an Alt 10 Million Inf to start with.

[Troo]

Here's 29 new pages of reading for you:

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Troo

[Vanden]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

Here's 75 pages of reading for you.

Mageman posted in that thread, my dude

[Jimmy]

There's been no further changes since then.

[Xcillion]

i disagree with the team itself. sry @Jimmy but they had to have changed it be it knowing or unknowingly. I felt the impact as well. *influ being disregarded in this. Recipe drops salvage quality yes. those are for sure reduced. even if it's rng it's been reduced. I used to max out after 2 runs on recipes and salvage now it takes 4 or 6 to max. not saying your wrong intentionally but if this wasn't a planned thing then it might be a new bug or glitch.

Look around other players are having this problem as well.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

On 7/24/2020 at 8:04 PM, Mageman said:

I haven't been in Paragon city much lately. I've been busy IRL. Now that I have a chance, I come back and find even more changes since I left.

 

Before I left, they took out double Inf if you turned off XP. Now, it seems that the AE has been turned down even more. It seems that I'm getting about 1/2 of what I did AFTER they turned off the double Inf. What I mean is 1/2 XP, 1/2 Inf, and 1/2 the drops (recipes, salvage, and enhancements).

 

Is there a patch that happened to do this? For me, farming was a way to give my alts some starting Inf for stuff from the PTW vendor - everything I purchased on live (Rocket Board, Flying Carpet, Inner Inspiration, etc.) or from Vet rewards. For all that, I'd give an Alt 10 Million Inf to start with.

I mean this smells of troll for a lot of reasons but what the hey Ill try and suggest some things.

 

If your starting funds for alts are usually around 10 mil, well that is super easy via merits now days. go knock out a quick tf run a chapter in one of the sig arcs for an easy 20 merits. fact is the first part of who will die is so easy for most ATs to solo at level, along with arcs in the hollows, that with all those merits, you should be able to pretty well self fund any new toon without a big need for a lot of extra funds from alts. Now days when you complete all the story arcs in a zone you also get a big merit bonus, so go do the 4 in the hollows and net around 80 merits for each alt to finance their early career. Stalkers especially do this silly easy.

[SwitchFade]

1 hour ago, Xcillion said:

i disagree with the team itself. sry @Jimmy but they had to have changed it be it knowing or unknowingly. I felt the impact as well. *influ being disregarded in this. Recipe drops salvage quality yes. those are for sure reduced. even if it's rng it's been reduced. I used to max out after 2 runs on recipes and salvage now it takes 4 or 6 to max. not saying your wrong intentionally but if this wasn't a planned thing then it might be a new bug or glitch.

Look around other players are having this problem as well.

Heh, im sceptical. Perceptual bias is a fiendishly enigmatic little trickster.

 

Please provide a sample data set that may be analyzed for information regarding drop rate, XP and inf gain.

[AboveTheChemist]

Unfortunately I only have one data point for pre-i26p5 conditions, but I have been running some farming tests in the past week so I have a modest dataset for post-i26p5 conditions for comparison. All runs were under the same conditions (level 50, XP/Inf set to normal, no double XP, not taking advantage of any of the inf boosting options that were removed in i26p5) on the same character in the same map (Briggs' Bloody Rainbow arc #125). The pre- and post-numbers look quite similar to me, although I really wish I had more than one pre-i26p5 run for comparison (I'm not an avid farmer).

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by AboveTheChemist
minor correction on spreadsheet image

[Xcillion]

I run this on occasion let me clear my space and then i'll give a calculated response in a few hours. Please note I am gonna run this 5 times and all inventory will be empty/recipes. influence will be transferred out so a complete clear slate. I'll be running this on lvl 50+0 no extra bonuses and no revoked.

If this was back before they changed anything then my chart should be roughly the same. @AboveTheChemist

 

[Xcillion]

after clearing my entire inventory emptying the bags and selling off my enhancements I ran the arc id 125. now called Bloody rainbow Comic con fire farm by Mr.Briggs.

I can say without a doubt in my mind that it is nerfed and more then i originally thought.

here are my stats upon a full completion of this farm. *this means I cleared all enimies and finished all 5 of 5 maps in this farm*

 

FIRST RUN

run- 1
common salavge- 111
UC Salvge- 21
Rare salvge- 4
Invention recipes- 52
UC Recipes- 9
Rare Recipes- 3
PVP Recipes- 0
VR Recipes- 0
enhancements- 16
xp- 1,359,483
Inf- 8,942,985

 

SECOND RUN

run- 2
common salavge-114
UC Salvge- 21
Rare salvge- 3
Invention recipes- 38
UC Recipes- 4
Rare Recipes- 2
PVP Recipes- 2
VR Recipes- 0
enhancements- 24
xp- 1,738,934
Inf- 8,916,871

 

keeping the rng in mind salvage appears roughly the same. invention recipes have been increased at the cost of purple and pvp based. xp and influence appear to have taken a hit as well.

and uncommon recipes might just be rng or a slight nerf.

This was 1 full run. I'll do a second complete run shortly and post the results.

This has indeed peaked my interest to say the least.

Same run but differing results. be nice to compare a few other results with your original @AboveTheChemist

@SwitchFade please use my current run as a sample data. as well as AboveTheChemist.

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Xcillion

[AboveTheChemist]

9 hours ago, Xcillion said:

Same run but differing results. be nice to compare a few other results with your original

Just to be clear, the left-hand column of numbers in my table are from a single run before the changes (it was from Sept 2019). The right-hand column is a series of 7 runs I have completed in the past week. Based on my numbers, I see no evidence to suggest an alteration of any drop rates.

 

I think all your salvage, recipe, and enhancement counts are in general agreement with the numbers I posted. Even that 52 invention recipes in your first run is probably nothing more than an outlier due to a generous RNG.

 

Your XP and INF numbers are puzzling, though. Are you running at 4x8 with bosses on? If I deduct the xp/inf from bosses from my numbers, I get around 4 million XP and 8.5 million INF, which are closer to your numbers (although I would need to run it with bosses off to get more representative numbers). I suggest you double-check your settings, because during my recent testing I have found that farm to be quite consistent in generating right at 12 million XP and 27.5 million INF when set to 4x8 with bosses.

[Coyotedancer]

Though I don't hit those maps solo with Harry very often, I'll start keeping numbers when I do if you guys want. Another data-point might be useful,

 

That said, while I don't know about another INF or drop nerf in general, I *have* definitely noticed one real weirdness... Something that's been mentioned before on the Bugs forum. I often dual-box, and there's a VERY consistent difference (That is to say, too consistent to be nothing but RNG jerkishness-) between the quantity of uncommon/rare/very rare recipe drops that the "leader" (Harry) gets on any farm map vs. what the secondary character ends up with. 

 

When I ran Harry (mission owner) and Sefkhet (lvl 50 tag-along) together on Cult's big Freakworld map Sunday morning, for instance, he ended with 6 assorted u/r/vr recipes. She had... I want to say 15 or 16. That was a wider gap than average (I'd say it's typical for the secondary character to get at least half-again more drops than the leader, with double not being all that uncommon-), but the general trend has held for months.

 

Their number of common recipe drops were a lot closer, for reference. Salvage and INF, likewise. She slightly edged him out on enhancements, but there's never been a large enough difference between the first character and seconds there to make as much of an impression as the difference in invention set recipes. 

 

Like I said, though I haven't been logging exact numbers, the difference in the recipes has been large, noticeable and absolutely consistent for quite awhile. I wonder if what some of you guys are seeing is related? If there's a tangle in there somewhere that's affecting the number of drops the mission owner receives there might be circumstances where that hits solo mission owners just like it does Harry when he's half of a duo. 'Just a thought.

 

[For the record, I always run +4/x8 with bosses, and I tend to bounce between Brigg's cave map and Cult's various missions when I'm dual-boxing. Bloody Rainbow is just annoying with two characters.]

 

ETA: 'Found some notes I took when that thread in the Bugs forum came up, just to document the recipe weirdness... I didn't date them, unfortunately, so they're no good as references for exactly when something might have gotten strange.

 

Bloody Rainbow (Harry/Oreviel)

U/R/VR

Harry 7, Rev 10

 

2551 (Harry/Bahir)

U/R/VR

Harry 8, Bahir 12

 

2551 (Harry/Bahir)

U/R/VR

Harry 4, Bahir 10

 

Cult's Outdoor (Harry/Deigan)

U/R/VR

Harry 9, Deigan 16

 

Cult's Outdoor (Harry/Narada)

U/R/VR

Harry 7, Narada 13

 

Though the exact percentage of the difference varies, which I would expect given our RNG, you can see what I mean about the pattern... the fact that there IS a difference... being consistent.  

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[roleki]

I don't have numbers at hand, but I do and have run the Cave Jam map cycle at 2/8 hundreds and hundreds of times, and aside from the inf nerf, have not noticed any change in drop rate or quality.   I run 2/8 specifically because that seems to amp up the drop rate, and to be honest, the way the market is set up, drops trump inf these days, or at least they do for MY purposes (i.e. kitting out the alts I've got sitting at the door).  

[Xcillion]

sorry this was +0/8 with bosses on

I'm about to rerun and will change my setting to +4/8 with bosses on.

I misread your earlier post.

(level 50, XP/Inf set to normal,

failed to see the comma after 50 so i read it as 50 normal. aka +0/8

just tack that to bad eyesight><

 

[Xcillion]

@Coyotedancer after my run this morning I'll check your statement by duel-box as well and send both data over.

[Coyotedancer]

5 minutes ago, Xcillion said:

@Coyotedancer after my run this morning I'll check your statement by duel-box as well and send both data over.

Spiffy! I really am curious about that, and if it's related somehow... I'll see if I can dig up that Bug forum thread, too.

 

ETA: Here's the Bug forum thread on the "less drops for the leader" issue...

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[Xcillion]

so this is now Run 3 but 1st run at +4/8 for arc 125 Mr.Briggs Farm.

 

common salavge-125
UC Salvge- 32
Rare salvge- 8
Invention recipes- 21
UC Recipes- 17
Rare Recipes- 1
PVP Recipes- 9
VR Recipes- 3
enhancements- 8
xp- 11,755,321
Inf- 29,455,662

 

This said that's the best run by far I have had in a long time.

[AboveTheChemist]

18 minutes ago, Xcillion said:

This said that's the best run by far I have had in a long time.

Yes, the RNG gods smiled upon that run. Looks like your XP/INF numbers are much more in line with mine with that 4x8 run.

[Coyotedancer]

So... Bloody Rainbow, solo with Harry at +4/x8/with bosses:

 

Common Salavge-118
Uncommon Salvage- 15
Rare Salvage- 10
Common Recipes- 42
Uncommon Recipes- 10
Rare Recipes- 4
PVP Recipes- 2
VR Recipes- 0
Enhancements- 25
XP- Harry is XP-locked at vet level 100, so (NA)
Raw Inf- 27,528, 245

[Xcillion]

based off all the runs rng seems to play a big role in recipes and salvage espically. I guess it's rng luck and not nerf. sadly i will have to try duel-box later on today

 

[Troo]

Headline: "Crisis Adverted in Farm Community"

:)

[Coyotedancer]

Well, there's still the "Why does the mission owner get fewer drops than their tag-along?" question, but that's been going on for awhile now. If it is, indeed, A Thing... it may or may not ever get looked into. It can't be all that high a priority for anyone. 

[Troo]

Testing required to get some data could be done. W.A.G. = the second character is potentially a level below the first and could that have an impact?

[Coyotedancer]

Maybe... That's one of the things I want to play around with.

 

'Just did a run with Harry (50+) and Sokari (47) on Cult's cave map and they were almost even on the recipe count (Sokari got a purple, but no PvPs... while Harry got a PvP, but no purples. They were equal on uncommons and rares, and Harry actually had a slight edge on Commons for once. That's unusual.)

 

I'm going to keep notes for awhile, just to see.

It may just turn out to be a pure RNG weirdness thing... But I think having some actual numbers will be interesting in its own right. 

[Xcillion]

i'm gonna do the run soon on my main farmer and a 50 tag along of mine. I'll post results in an hour.

 

*News Update* Farmer community come together in time of need. Paragon watches in the background relaying this to their HQ. Snow in Atlas in July and A special report of huge Snowmen Wrecking Havoc near the WentWorth. More on this at 9. Stay tuned:P