Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[Vanden]

7 minutes ago, Neogumbercules said:

100x this. Works great in Water Blast with Tidal Forces.

Tidal Forces is much weaker than Aim; the damage buff is only half. This is the thing I hate most about combo systems, every time they tie into the set's Build Up or Aim, the actual numerical buffs of those powers get weaker, and it's never, ever worth the tradeoff.

[AerialAssault]

I went and tried out an Energy Melee/Radiation Armour Brute. Basic IO's only, no sets.

 

It still works really well. Even though it wasn't pulling anything close to four figures, the Total Focus -> Energy Transfer combo is still good enough to drop most bosses into a situation where Bone Smasher can finish them off. Thanks to Power Crash & Whirling Hands, I could also deal with the rest of the mob. Not as much of a slog to get through missions now, I honestly would not want to go back to Stun, ever.

 

Overall I approve of the changes, and I hope they go to Live with only minimal changes.

[Gobbledigook]

8 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

See, I remember those threads where we argued with Castle about stuff that was on the test server. And sometimes you and I were in agreement and sometimes not.

 

When, in the entire life-cycle of this game, have you ever seen significant changes happen to something that was on test based on player feedback? Oh sure, a couple of percentage points here a 1/4 of a second to an animation there, but a significant change like adding/removing a combo system?

 

Never.

 

It's going live like this and you know it is. The best we can do is hope to convince the devs to buff EM so that it is once again the King of Single Target Damage. Letting them know that some people really dislike combo systems, or at least don't want every power set to have them, is worthwhile. But we all know that they're not going to reverse all of the work they've done to EM on account of a few guys who don't sign their paychecks.

 

IMHO.

I do not see any reason why EM should be the single target king. Just because it was once doesn't mean it should be again, afterall it did get nerfed. That title should go to Fire Melee. Not to say it shouldn't have good single target damage though.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[GM ColdSpark]

Come along now folks. Start respecting differing views please.

[Super Atom]

8 minutes ago, AerialAssault said:

I went and tried out an Energy Melee/Radiation Armour Brute. Basic IO's only, no sets.

 

It still works really well. Even though it wasn't pulling anything close to four figures, the Total Focus -> Energy Transfer combo is still good enough to drop most bosses into a situation where Bone Smasher can finish them off. Thanks to Power Crash & Whirling Hands, I could also deal with the rest of the mob. Not as much of a slog to get through missions now, I honestly would not want to go back to Stun, ever.

 

Overall I approve of the changes, and I hope they go to Live with only minimal changes.

Question for you as i haven't yet, how well is the bonus recharge from radiation armor working with TF/ET in combat?  I imagine Beta Decay is making it crazy quick to chain PF abilities.

 

Was thinking SR would be a good fit since the +HP from ET crits would be a good fit and the bonus recharge would be cool

Edited October 25, 2020 by Super Atom

[ScarySai]

1 minute ago, Super Atom said:

Question for you as i haven't yet, how well is the bonus recharge from radiation armor working with TF/ET in combat?  I imagine Beta Decay is making it crazy quick to chain PF abilities

Honestly, et itself doesn't need much recharge to get going. I have zero in mine right now and I'm able to run a pretty scary stalker chain.

 

I went with +5 heca damage, two nucleus and four procs.

[AerialAssault]

2 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

Question for you as i haven't yet, how well is the bonus recharge from radiation armor working with TF/ET in combat?  I imagine Beta Decay is making it crazy quick to chain PF abilities.

 

Was thinking SR would be a good fit since the +HP from ET crits would be a good fit and the bonus recharge would be cool

Let me put it this way: Energy Transfer -> Total Focus -> Instant Energy Transfer.

 

Thanks to Energy Transfer's recharge being so low, it's more than possible to get two in quick succession, especially with the use of Hasten.

 

The self-damage from Energy Transfer was basically negligible on Radiation Armour.

[GM ColdSpark]

OK folks, this is starting to get a little ridiculous. I want to see feedback, and feedback only please.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, AerialAssault said:

Let me put it this way: Energy Transfer -> Total Focus -> Instant Energy Transfer.

 

Thanks to Energy Transfer's recharge being so low, it's more than possible to get two in quick succession, especially with the use of Hasten.

 

The self-damage from Energy Transfer was basically negligible on Radiation Armour.

I found the same running TF/ET/BS/EP/ET/repeat. Course the pause before the next TF sucked a lot.

[Vanden]

3 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

I went with +5 heca damage, two nucleus and four procs.

That's 7 enhancements

[ScarySai]

Just now, Vanden said:

That's 7 enhancements

I derped while typing and counted the heca as a proc. Three procs.

[Troo]

28 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Perhaps we do, but I find your complaints about the "combo system" as you call it to be a stretch at best. It's a minor complaint for my stalker as I have to tf before every AoE, but otherwise not really noteworthy. 

 

I would like another way to generate focus on the condition it didnt come at the cost of current throughput.

 

If it triggered off of Bone Smash it could be more efficient and make parts of the functionality available at lower levels. But that's not how Energy Assault works so...

 

[Xanatos]

Having actually playtested the powerset, my overall feedback is positive. I like it. But have one slight concern. I feel like only being able to get Energy Focus from Total Focus is a bit limiting. It makes the set feel like a one-trick pony whilst playing it. It's good on paper, but it feels a bit railroaded in practice.

 

My feedback would be to take a leaf out of Rad Melee's book. Specifically: give the other powers in the set a small chance to generate Energy Focus.

 

Here is Rad Melee's powers, plus a list of the "percentage change to make the enemy irradiated"

 

Contaminated Strike - 12%
Radioactive Smash - 23%
Proton Sweep - 21%
Fusion - 100%
Radiation Siphon - 32%
Irradiated Ground - ??%
Devastating Blow - 100%
Atom Smasher - 35%

 

Based on these numbers, I suggest the following Energy Melee powers be given the percentage chances to generate 1 unit of Energy Focus:

Barrage - 12%
Energy Punch - 23%
Bone Smasher - 21%
Build Up - 100%
Whirling Hands - 35%
Total Focus - 100%
Power Crash - 21%

 

This change would help  make the set feel less of a one-trick pony. Curious to hear what @Bill Z Bubba @Troo @Vanden @ScarySai @Super Atom @AerialAssault and everyone else currently playtesting Energy Melee on beta think of the above. (Sorry for tagging. Thread is super busy and don't want this to vanish in the stampede of posts.)

Edited October 25, 2020 by Xanatos

[ScarySai]

4 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

If it triggered off of Bone Smash it could be more efficient and make parts of the functionality available at lower levels. But that's not how Energy Assault works so...

 

But hitting a stunned target does generate focus for energy assault. If any idea for more ways to generate focus would make sense, it's that. 

 

Otherwise I often find myself avoiding bone smash like the plague so it doesn't eat a stack from my fast ET.

Edited October 25, 2020 by ScarySai

[Super Atom]

In Energy Assault, Bonesmasher can trigger Energy Focus, as do other abilities outside of TF.

 

anyone who played it would know that.

 

 

😉

[Tsuko]

18 minutes ago, GM ColdSpark said:

OK folks, this is starting to get a little ridiculous. I want to see feedback, and feedback only please.

Yes sir 🙂 sorry  i did not see your post cause i almost fall of my chair laughing from some post above yours.

 

I go back to beta server to see what i can do of this EM scrapper, at least it was relaxing 😄

[Super Atom]

5 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

But hitting a stunned target does generate focus for energy assault. If any idea for more ways to generate focus would make sense, it's that. 

 

Otherwise I often find myself avoiding bone smash like the plague so it doesn't eat a stack from my fast ET.

Could be a good addition, having BS/ET/PC also having a chance to trigger EF if used on a stunned target.

 

This keeps a good solid balance, as having these abilities without EF would be over preforming in the long run.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Super Atom

[Troo]

@Xanatos

 

Yes you are likely correct.

It's just unfortunate that now we would be going down the combo path that some folks dislike on a set that didn't previously have it.

 

Those animation speeds could be available without the combo and would we be 15 pages into the discussion? I don't think so, if people were able to get the same performance.. win-win

[ScarySai]

@Xanatos I said it already, but since you mentioned me, I'd prefer stealing from energy assault and tying the proc chance to beating the ever loving tar out of stunned targets.

 

In addition to being fun to game and synergize with and likely less game-breaking/neccesary to balance around, this adds value to using focused bone smasher over avoiding it.

Edited October 25, 2020 by ScarySai

[Troo]

4 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

In Energy Assault, Bonesmasher can trigger Energy Focus, as do other abilities outside of TF.

 

anyone who played it would know that.

 

 

😉

Bone Smasher has a chance as do others.

 

Thanks for the extra little dig to try and say folks haven't played it.

[Vanden]

I don't necessarily like the idea of random chances to gain Energy Focus. The issue I see is situations where, for example, you randomly gain focus from Energy Punch. Except, oops, you already had Bone Smasher queued and you used it without meaning to. I know Energy Assault allows this, but I don't think Energy Assault has the issue where one of the possible EF spenders is way, way better than the other options in most scenarios.

[Super Atom]

13 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

If it triggered off of Bone Smash it could be more efficient and make parts of the functionality available at lower levels. But that's not how Energy Assault works so...

 

 

1 minute ago, Troo said:

Bone Smasher has a chance as do others.

 

🤔

[Troo]

6 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I don't necessarily like the idea of random chances to gain Energy Focus. The issue I see is situations where, for example, you randomly gain focus from Energy Punch. Except, oops, you already had Bone Smasher queued and you used it without meaning to. I know Energy Assault allows this, but I don't think Energy Assault has the issue where one of the possible EF spenders is way, way better than the other options in most scenarios.

exactly

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Troo
spellz :(

[Bopper]

10 minutes ago, Xanatos said:

My feedback would be to take a leaf out of Rad Melee's book. Specifically: give the other powers in the set a small chance to generate Energy Focus.

I would suggest taking it out of the Energy Assault playboom. Give the 20% chance to proc Energy Focus if the target is stunned. Its a splash of extra niceness without being too much of a swing in power balance since its a low probability conditional

[Super Atom]

2 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I don't necessarily like the idea of random chances to gain Energy Focus. The issue I see is situations where, for example, you randomly gain focus from Energy Punch. Except, oops, you already had Bone Smasher queued and you used it without meaning to. I know Energy Assault allows this, but I don't think Energy Assault has the issue where one of the possible EF spenders is way, way better than the other options in most scenarios.

Accidents happen sure, but that shouldn't disqualify the base idea behind it. User error =/= systems fault kind of deal. I think the idea would be to add EF proc chances on other abilities while keeping TF as a 100% like EA.

 

Perhaps a scaled % based on the power? BS higher chance, PC lower, ET even lower while TF guaranteed?

Edited October 25, 2020 by Super Atom