Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

have you tried it?

So far, I'm averaging in the 1:40s on a build with agility not musculature.  Best time so far was 1:11 and thats without epic pool chicanery.

 

That's a EM EA stalker.

 

I'll post more as I get them

Yes, I'm on beta now. Copied over my EM/SR brute: 3:30 average pylon time so far compared to 4:30 on live.

Currently running around Atlas on a lowbie EM/Rad scrapper.

 

8 minutes ago, Replacement said:

Err.  It's not momentum?

It's momentum. It's a choice between two different animation times for the same attack. Exactly what momentum does for TW.

[Maxzero]

1 minute ago, Galaxy Brain said:

For raw ST damage, probably. TW still does a lot more than EM in the grand scheme tho.

 

But EM does not have redraw issues, painful gameplay and end issues.

 

You just punch things, with energy. Very, very hard.

[Vanden]

1 minute ago, Maxzero said:

But EM does not have redraw issues, painful gameplay and end issues.

TW shouldn’t have those things so bad any more, either.

[Infinitum]

8 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Yes, I'm on beta now. Copied over my EM/SR brute: 3:30 average pylon time so far compared to 4:30 on live.

Currently running around Atlas on a lowbie EM/Rad scrapper.

 

It's momentum. It's a choice between two different animation times for the same attack. Exactly what momentum does for TW.

Momentum locks some attacks out if you arent in it, focus makes them faster but you still have access to them if you aren't in it.

 

ET, cost no endurance, and had recharge lowered - if that was the only change it would still be an improvement especially combined with TF having a lower anim time too.

[PorkTips]

Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake, but is Power Crash just a damage cone? I never had Stun in my build, and I'm not a fan of cones unless most of my AOEs are cones. So I'm thinking I wont have to respec my INV/Energy Melee tank at all. I dont see any huge reason to pick it up. Which is fine. Just wanted to make sure I'm correct in understanding it.

[Replacement]

1 minute ago, PorkTips said:

Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake, but is Power Crash just a damage cone? I never had Stun in my build, and I'm not a fan of cones unless most of my AOEs are cones. So I'm thinking I wont have to respec my INV/Energy Melee tank at all. I dont see any huge reason to pick it up. Which is fine. Just wanted to make sure I'm correct in understanding it.

Yeah, if you're comfortable with your current amount of AoE, your existing toon should still see large performance improvements.

[Bopper]

3 minutes ago, PorkTips said:

Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake, but is Power Crash just a damage cone? I never had Stun in my build, and I'm not a fan of cones unless most of my AOEs are cones. So I'm thinking I wont have to respec my INV/Energy Melee tank at all. I dont see any huge reason to pick it up. Which is fine. Just wanted to make sure I'm correct in understanding it.

If you jump with a cone, you can turn it into a pseudo-PBAoE. Also, Cones are more friendly with the damage formula than PBAoEs, so you can gain quite the advantage from them. Finally, I think Power Crash has a Chance for Stun

 

[Maxzero]

3 minutes ago, PorkTips said:

Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake, but is Power Crash just a damage cone? I never had Stun in my build, and I'm not a fan of cones unless most of my AOEs are cones. So I'm thinking I wont have to respec my INV/Energy Melee tank at all. I dont see any huge reason to pick it up. Which is fine. Just wanted to make sure I'm correct in understanding it.

 

It's a 120 Arc cone. On Tankers thats 240 arc. With 10 range (melee range is 8 usually).

 

This ain't no regular cone.

[Infinitum]

4 minutes ago, PorkTips said:

Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake, but is Power Crash just a damage cone? I never had Stun in my build, and I'm not a fan of cones unless most of my AOEs are cones. So I'm thinking I wont have to respec my INV/Energy Melee tank at all. I dont see any huge reason to pick it up. Which is fine. Just wanted to make sure I'm correct in understanding it.

I wont be picking it up on my inv EM tank either, but im debating about my fire em

[Replacement]

14 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

It's momentum. It's a choice between two different animation times for the same attack. Exactly what momentum does for TW.

I didn't realize every Stalker in the game already had Momentum.

 

But seriously, I'm not trying to be combative about this.  I just don't like to see it portrayed as some great hassle when in reality, you can mostly play the set ignoring Energy Focus and be fine.  Comparing it to the most famously-cumbersome mechanic in the game just because of one similarity is too hot-take for me to not comment on.

[Bopper]

Just now, Maxzero said:

 

It's a 120 Arc cone. On Tankers thats 240 arc. With 10 range (melee range is 8 usually).

 

This ain't no regular cone.

With cones that are 120 degrees, they don't get the Tanker inherent buff. So it's still 120 degrees on Tanks. Same for all other wide arc cones. The 10 foot range is huge, though, it's TW area 

[Maxzero]

1 minute ago, Bopper said:

With cones that are 120 degrees, they don't get the Tanker inherent buff. So it's still 120 degrees on Tanks. Same for all other wide arc cones. The 10 foot range is huge, though, it's TW area 

 

It's basically Shadow Maul but with less damage. 16 target cap too if you have the 'buff.'

 

I'll find space for it.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Maxzero

[Replacement]

@Bopper just an added clarification - it shouldn't get the arc improvement (and I think it'd only be +50% if it did), but it does get the Tanker +5 target cap.

[Infinitum]

PCs biggest kick is it improves AOE to scrappers, tankers, and brutes, and adds it altogether to stalkers.

 

You can switch gears from ST focus to AOE now and still be extremely lethal either way.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Infinitum

[Bill Z Bubba]

6 minutes ago, Replacement said:

I didn't realize every Stalker in the game already had Momentum.

 

But seriously, I'm not trying to be combative about this.  I just don't like to see it portrayed as some great hassle when in reality, you can mostly play the set ignoring Energy Focus and be fine.  Comparing it to the most famously-cumbersome mechanic in the game just because of one similarity is too hot-take for me to not comment on.

At least with stalkers (and blaster snipes) I can simply not use it as an opening attack and never have to consider it with its longer recharge time.

Not the case here.

With AS and Snipes, I don't have to do diddly to get the faster cast time. With this EM I am *forced* to use it directly after TF (thus screwing my attack chain) or stick with the long (ridiculously stupidly long) animation.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Infinitum]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

At least with stalkers (and blaster snipes) I can simply not use it as an opening attack and never have to consider it with its longer recharge time.

Not the case here.

With AS and Snipes, I don't have to do diddly to get the faster cast time. With this EM I am *forced* to use it directly after ET (thus screwing my attack chain) or stick with the long (ridiculously stupidly long) animation.

TF is improved too, its worth using now.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Infinitum said:

TF is improved too, its worth using now.

Yes, and I'm grateful for that but I was using it anyway.

[Bopper]

These are some major buffs.

 

Energy Punch gets a minor Damage buff (I don't see that in the patch notes though). 16% more damage/DPA.

Bone Smasher gets a cast time reduction. 18% more DPA

Total Focus gets a cast time reduction. 24% more DPA

Energy Transfer: Cooldown gets cut in HALF!!! No Endurance Cost!!! and is can have the old 1s animation. Wowser.

Whirling Hands gets a minor Damage buff (Also not seen in the patch notes). 18% more damage/DPA.

 

@Jimmycan you update the patch notes with some of these missing numbers? Energy Punch and Whirling Hands should be doing more damage now.

[Bopper]

5 minutes ago, Replacement said:

@Bopper just an added clarification - it shouldn't get the arc improvement (and I think it'd only be +50% if it did), but it does get the Tanker +5 target cap.

Thank you, that is an important distinction. 

[PorkTips]

7 minutes ago, Bopper said:

If you jump with a cone, you can turn it into a pseudo-PBAoE. Also, Cones are more friendly with the damage formula than PBAoEs, so you can gain quite the advantage from them. Finally, I think Power Crash has a Chance for Stun

 

Right, its the jumping trickery and whatnot that I generally dont like about cones. I dont like moving in and out of melee to leverage them, so I mostly skip them. I do take them on characters who live on the fringe of melee, but I dont enjoy them at all on melee ATs (unless they are the tight cones, and even then I just treat them as singe target attacks where sometimes I get lucky).

 

So I'm happy to be able to still skip this power. Its nice when sets have skippable powers so I can pick up other things I want.

 

But this is cool I guess for most people, so its all good.

 

Thanks all.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2:50 pylon with EM/SR brute, down from 4:30 on live, using attack chain TF/ET(short)/BS/EP/ET(long)/repeat

[Replacement]

4 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

At least with stalkers (and blaster snipes) I can simply not use it as an opening attack and never have to consider it with its longer recharge time.

Not the case here.

With AS and Snipes, I don't have to do diddly to get the faster cast time. With this EM I am *forced* to use it directly after TF (thus screwing my attack chain) or stick with the long (ridiculously stupidly long) animation.

This I can understand.  It's probably obvious that I don't mind -- I haven't played EM since i11 or so, when I became too disgusted to look at it, so I have no current attachment to a given attack chain.

 

One small caveat... perhaps a nitpick even.  You don't have to use Energy Transfer directly after Total Focus -- you have 15 seconds and a few other powers you can use.  But sentiment received (especially since it kind of sucks to accidentally spend EF on Bone Smasher).

 

On a barely-related note... I recommend folks try this set out on Stalkers.  On-demand double-Focus mode is pretty crazy.

Not likely to be used on an optimized toon, but slow-ET from Hide for a guaranteed heal is kind of a cute trick too.

[skoryy]

14 minutes ago, Bopper said:

If you jump with a cone, you can turn it into a pseudo-PBAoE. Also, Cones are more friendly with the damage formula than PBAoEs, so you can gain quite the advantage from them.

Yeah, TF -> PC -> WH makes for a nifty rotation.  You're not gonna clear rooms at record time, but at least the AoE is there.

 

6 minutes ago, Bopper said:

These are some major buffs.

I kitted out a lvl 50 scrapper and its incredible how many one shots or near one shots I'm getting with TF and ET.  The con to the pro is TF having a long enough recharge time that you're going to need a fair bit of filler in between your heavy hitters.

[Troo]

The totality of the changes seem to be an effort to shoehorn in a bad change. The need to move Energy Transfer is a result of that shoehorning.

 

If folks want Energy Assault for melee, make that.

No need to co-op existing power sets for radical changes that deviate so extensively from the originals.

 

In my opinion such changes were not necessary, as a simpler approach that stayed true to the power set was/is available.

Changes that were mentioned:

• Return the fast activation Energy Transfer
• Slight Total Focus animation time adjustment
• Other small changes were also suggested

 

Of course I will try it on beta. That said, and having already tried Energy Assault, I am already disappointed with the choices that were made.

 

 

Questions for the Homecoming team:

1. What is the point of having the forums if the feedback from other venues consistently trumps the feedback here?
2. Should we expect similar mechanics for all sets that don't have them?

[Golden Azrael]

Dear Home Coming.

 

1st the patch is an astonishing piece of work.  A love poem to the CoH community.

 

2nd?

 

Energy Melee.

 

*Open weeping, wailing, gnashing...rendering of sack cloth...ash in hair.

 

It's beautiful.  It's a triumph.  It's a work of art.

 

It's the best tank melee set there is.

 

I downloaded the new patcher and rolled an En/Bio tank at break neck speed.  I did one mission before I released the mission was over.  It was THAT engrossing.

 

Faultless.

 

The new mechanism gives the 'old timers/old schoolers' what they wished for in ET short version.  And the new mech' gives the new schoolers something more progressive.  You can play it old or new school.  Old ET.  NEW ET.  Take your pick.  Choice.

 

What I like about this patch in general.  But specifically to the Energy patch?  You've actually listened to the focused feedback.  And now we have 'focused' energy.  On a tank.

 

It hits like a truck.  We can go quick or go long on the fight style.  It has so much more flow, power and engagement.   Ie.  Variety.  HC have really stayed true to the core idea of the set.   

 

It's quicker!

It's smoother!

It's MOAR damage.

We have two AoEs!

Is that an AoE stun I spy!??!?!!?

It has the quicker TF.

It has the short animating ET.

It has energy focus. 

Bonesmasher.  Oh Momma.  Is that an auto stun? :OOOO

It's engrossing.

It's variety.

It's progressive.

It's old school.

It's new school.

 

I've just +2 x8 on the Council.  The mobs heads are ringing.  'That's going to hurt in the morning, son.'  (Must say in Aussie accent.)

 

Perfect.  Just perfect.  DO NOT CHANGE THIS!

 

The king is dead.  Long live the king!

 

Yours truly,

 

Azrael.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Golden Azrael