Focused Feedback: Trick Arrow Revamp

[Luminara]

12 minutes ago, brass_eagle said:

Also following @summersexample, I'm interested to know what people think about the Disruption Arrow's -5 MaxEnd.

 

Useless.  No, I'm going to be blunt, it's crap.  Even enhanced, it wouldn't provide 0.000001% increase in survivability or combat effectiveness.  It accomplishes absolutely nothing.  It's not even 5%, which might be leveraged by a full team using sapping techniques, it's just 5 endurance.  I'm sincerely hoping it's a placeholder for something worthwhile, or at least interesting.

[Tater Todd]

Keep in mind I don't know if this is normal or not since my Trick Arrow toon on HC Live is low level but I'm not sure this is much of an issue anyway...

Possible BUG REPORT: Disruption Arrow is stacking on itself briefly from anywhere between 2- 4 seconds.

 

EDIT: The debuff window overlaps for 5 seconds only if you continue to spam it.  Shortening the debuff window too much may cause debuff consistency issues for teams.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Tater Todd

[brass_eagle]

29 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Useless.  No, I'm going to be blunt, it's crap.  Even enhanced, it wouldn't provide 0.000001% increase in survivability or combat effectiveness.  It accomplishes absolutely nothing.  It's not even 5%, which might be leveraged by a full team using sapping techniques, it's just 5 endurance.  I'm sincerely hoping it's a placeholder for something worthwhile, or at least interesting.

Yeah. I've compiled a list of things that are my concerns. They are based off of yours and others listed here. It's a useless thing. Without a "global balancing" of endurance usage and endurance pools of  enemies... yeah. Hmm. I do feel like disruption arrow needs something else. Even if it's just a 50%chance for mag 2 disorient. Something. And I would have used an expletive synonymous with crap. xD

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by brass_eagle

[macskull]

3 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

Thats just irritating pixelbitching to target the damn thing. Putting a 1 point energy damage in disruption arrow would fix it.

Again, every character can pick up Apprentice Charm or Taser origin powers, both of which will light OSA.

[oedipus_tex]

I love these changes. Thanks so much for pouring your heart into the revisions. Some of these powers work in very interesting ways.

 

The most interesting change to me is the -Resist Special in Acid Arrow. There's nothing else like that in the game. In a recent conversation I learned that debuff strength is recalculated every tick, so an enemy hit with Acid Arrow will see its -ToHit debuff etc multiplied even if the arrow hits after the debuff lands. There's a lot of potentially weird combos for the new Acid Arrow:

• Paired with Electric sets, endurance drains are more effective
• Paired with Dark sets, -ToHit is more effective
• Paired with Ice or Psionic sets, -Recharge is more effective. This is the first and only power in the game that can make -Recharge more effective.

I have a lot to explore. I've got a TA character I can pull over to the test server to see how things go.

Edited October 26, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[WindDemon21]

39 minutes ago, macskull said:

Again, every character can pick up Apprentice Charm or Taser origin powers, both of which will light OSA.

If you want to force them into a specific origin, making it the only power set which forces you to do this.

[WindDemon21]

2 hours ago, brass_eagle said:

Yeah. I've compiled a list of things that are my concerns. They are based off of yours and others listed here. It's a useless thing. Without a "global balancing" of endurance usage and endurance pools of  enemies... yeah. Hmm. I do feel like disruption arrow needs something else. Even if it's just a 50%chance for mag 2 disorient. Something. And I would have used an expletive synonymous with crap. xD

 

A 100% chance mag .01 kd with 1pt of energy damage. Light oil slick with it, and the kd can help use it as an opener, and allow more sets to let us get some end/rech ios in there.

 

One of the biggest issues I have is with powers that only debuff or buff damage, and there are ZERO io sets to be able to put in them currently to even frankenslot to save slots, until the nudevs at least make "universal io" or "universal buff/debuff" sets that include recharge, end reduction, and accuracy.

[Vanden]

7 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

If you want to force them into a specific origin, making it the only power set which forces you to do this.

No, any character, of any origin, can grab either at the P2W vendor.

[macskull]

7 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

If you want to force them into a specific origin, making it the only power set which forces you to do this.

Err... origin powers are independent of origin on Homecoming. You can swap them out at-will at the P2W vendor.

 

EDIT: Damn you Vanden

Edited October 26, 2020 by macskull

[WindDemon21]

Just now, Vanden said:

No, any character, of any origin, can grab either at the P2W vendor.

Oh yeah forgot about that new feature for homecoming, still don't ever use those lol

[Tater Todd]

Can't you still miss with Origin powers though?  I forget.  I guess once you take Tactics, or pick up the Geas of the Kind Ones Accolade, get buffed by a +ACC or +ToHit power, or slot an IO set that grants Accuracy or +To Hit bonus that's a non issue.

 

EDIT: It's showing as 1.20X Acc on my Blaster but the power recharges in no time and The OSA pet has -100% defense anyway so NEVER MIND then lmao.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Tater Todd

[Vanden]

11 minutes ago, Tater Todd said:

Can't you still miss with Origin powers though?  I forget.  I guess once you take Tactics, or pick up the Geas of the Kind Ones Accolade, get buffed by a +ACC or +ToHit power, or slot an IO set that grants Accuracy or +To Hit bonus that's a non issue.

The Oil Slick has a -10,000% defense debuff on itself at all times, so making your tohit roll is as much of a non-issue as it's possible for it to be.

[WindDemon21]

12 minutes ago, Tater Todd said:

Can't you still miss with Origin powers though?  I forget.  I guess once you take Tactics, or pick up the Geas of the Kind Ones Accolade, get buffed by a +ACC or +ToHit power, or slot an IO set that grants Accuracy or +To Hit bonus that's a non issue.

You can but with hasten/bonuses it recharges pretty fast.

[Tater Todd]

Looks like I already beat you two to it!  *Blows the smoke coming out of gun barrel, flips the handgun all fancy like back into holster and then trips up on my own two feet* 😆

[Recovery8]

5 hours ago, zenblack said:

I feel the EMP arrow should be modified in the following ways:

 

1.) Target Location with duration the arrow and AOE effect constantly pulsing a refresh to the buff/debuffs. These numbers can be finessed but perhaps 15 sec duration on the arrow, 45 sec duration on the buff/debuff.

 

2.) Allow the caster to enter the field and gain it's effects.

 

This would be much more in line with a t9 buff power.

Agreed, I feel like it should probably be renamed as well to be honest. EMP arrow doesn't sound right for a "buff" power, but that's honestly semantics. I would probably say put the duration at 20 seconds but that's about my only difference. These changes would make it really feel like a proper T9 if it's supposed to be an "ultimate" of the sets identity. 

[Captain Powerhouse]

9 hours ago, macskull said:

In fairness, most of my point about the -special value (the duration is an obvious issue and is out of line with every other power like it) is concerns with spammable -special in PvP and it's easy enough to adjust the values for PvP separately.

 

A lot of the debuffs have been made much stronger with PvE balance and the reality that debuff sets need to remain competitive against +3 foes relative to buffing peers.

 

I have not stopped thinking about how this will impact even level combat, to be specific: PvP

[arkieboy72472]

 played some the other night and while I didn't try out all the powers,I felt like a God. Me TA/A def) and a Blaster duo'd a 3/8 MC in KW like it was nothing. The only power I disliked was EMP Arrow, as it is now too weak without power build up and aim. Fortunately for me, my build is LOADED down with procs and Ice Arrow is now my number one bruiser How I rolled with the blaster was I would target through him or glue arrow the middle of the group, he rolls in doing his thing, I drop an oil slick, light it with acid arrow (yes) and then drop the -res arrow while he folded in a second group and continued wrecking face. I would use ice arrow on bosses for stupid levels of debuff and damage then on occasion toss emp arrow out, which is now kinda meh, but when it DOES hit (of course after a power build up plus aim, because it feels gimped now) it looks awesome. That +2 hold proc is mandatory in it now, folks. Anyhow all of the debuffing I was doing was just combat multiplying his destruction. I was seeing tics of -11 and -12 on slick, when I usually see -8's and -9's. With enough recharge and the right build, TA is going to be such a combat multiplier. Especially with a good blast secondary or whatever you pair it with (I am looking at you earth control). All in all I didn't maximize its potential yet. While I am not a fan of Emp Arrow changes, the set as a whole now allows your team mates to play their best and see a huge increase in their own actions. Sadly, you won't have damage much unless you proc out (and even procs were nerfed I think...) Still, I hope this stays on line with the end result.

[King Kog]

On 10/24/2020 at 1:38 PM, Jimmy said:

 

•  EMP Arrow
  • Can now be slotted with Range enhancements
  • No longer applies -recovery to the caster
  • Half of the -regen debuff now lasts 45 seconds (previously the entire -regen debuff dropped off after 15 seconds, now only half of it does)
  • Hold duration for non-robots reduced by roughly 50%
  • This power now adds an ally buff to any ally or pet within the radius of the power (the caster is not affected)
    • 15% damage resistance to all but Toxic (not enhanceable)
    • Resistance against End Drain and Recovery Debuffs
    • Protection against status effects and knock back

@Jimmy EMP arrow notes are missing the Mag reduction for the hold portion of the ability, and that it's not a guaranteed hold anymore.

 

The below are my thoughts on the changes that I've played (briefly) so far, from the perspective of an Incarnate Ill/TA controller that has been one of my mains since live

TL;DR:

• Love most of the changes! Though I've gotta say, the -Special and -End Mod don't feel particularly useful things to add? Buffs are buffs though I spose.
• Keep acid arrow as it is on live, add the new -debuff res to entangling arrow instead.
  The -RES feels a bit clunky thematically for entangling arrow, considering acid arrow had it removed. 2 powers changed so that entangling arrow could fill the boss+ debuffing niche that acid arrow already had covered. I suggest moving the -debuff res to entangling instead of acid, since that extra debuffing is useful on EB's+, where you'd also bother using a single target immob already as well.
• Please remove the buff aspect from EMP arrow, and revert the hold portion to as it is on live

 

Reasoning and more in-depth thoughts:

Spoiler

• Entangling Arrow & Acid Arrow
  The -RES feels a bit clunky thematically, considering acid arrow had it removed. 2 powers changed so that entangling arrow could fill the boss+ debuffing niche that acid arrow already had covered. That doesn't bother me TOO much, though it also feels clunky during gameplay for me.
  On live, a typical mob fight for me goes:
• Fire off an AoE control of some sort
• Fire disruption arrow
• Fire off ice arrow and acid arrow onto a boss
• Rotate through my single target attacks on the boss until it goes down
• Rinse and Repeat

On Beta, I'm wanting to now cast an otherwise useless immob onto the boss, in order to maximize -RES.
I know that it is technically just bonus -RES compared to live, but part of playing the game for me is trying to optimize my gameplay to take stuff down as efficiently as possible, so now I'm firing an extra arrow before getting into the single target rotation. It feels really clunky. Maybe that's on me, and only targets squishier than EB's/AV's/GM's, it'd be comparable to just skip it and go right into my single target rotation, I'm really just posting my feelings.

Because of the above, I feel that:

• Thematically and in terms of gameplay, it makes more sense (to me) to add the -debuff resist to entangling arrow. It feels like a "Hold em down so I can fire more debuffs!", and you'll likely only want all that extra debuffing on a hard target that you'd want to use an immob on anyways.
• Acid arrow should remain as it is on live. Acid burns through armor == -res,-def. I'd also be happy if, by the same reasoning, entangling arrow stays as it is on live and acid arrow just got overloaded.

 

• EMP Arrow
  I obviously love that there's no longer -recovery for the caster and there's longer -regen to targets (as they're straight buffs lol).
  Otherwise, it really feels like someone jumped the shark on this one. It went from a super long duration AoE hold, with -regen attached, to a chance at a low duration, low mag hold, that also adds +Res to the team (but not the caster.... on a debuff set...?)
  It's changing how I used the power, as an opener to a big mob OR as something to hold on to as a real 'OH SHIT' extra AoE mez. (I suppose I especially feel it as an Ill/* controller, who gets no benefit from the buff portion at all, and loses some hard CC)
  
  I would *much* rather this power stay mostly as is on live, with the -recovery removal and -regen duration buffs. This change feels like it's breaking the cottage rule, and is adding a really awkward buff onto a debuff set. If the devs are happy with the direction of the power, I hope that they please considering reverting the hold mag to what it is on live (since it's already getting a slashed duration). If power needs to be taken out of the set elsewhere to balance the budget, maybe just dump the random -Endmod and -special tossed around the other powers in the set?
  Also, if the buff part is staying, I like the idea that someone had that it just tosses a Faraday Cage down on its target. Makes more sense thematically.
   

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Jono265

[summers]

On 10/24/2020 at 10:38 PM, Jimmy said:

•  Flash Arrow
  • Can now be slotted with Range enhancements
  • -ToHit increased from -6.25% to -15%
    • Half this debuff is now irresistible

Something is a little off with this power, since the in game display says it's -9.38% / -9.38% unresistable for Defenders! Corruptors are getting -7.5% / -7.5% unresistable

Edited October 26, 2020 by summers

[Replacement]

@Luminara the max end debuff (when it is made to work) on DA should affect overall Recovery, since end recovery is a % of max per tick.

 

... But it's pretty obvious it's just there to provide some sets the power can take.

 

@Jono265 - the -resist on Entangling wasn't taken from Acid Arrow.

AA's resist went to Disruption Arrow (and thus gained triple the radius in the process).

We went from 40% in 2 powers (one with a terrible 8' radius) to 40% in 1 power.

The additional -20% in Entangling is just bonus, clearly intended for additional boss+ debuffing, and that's plenty.

 

@Hopestar - poison gas arrow's sleep is a recurring field, so it should be doing a pretty effective job at chopping up alphas. Please do not also forget the -50% damage debuff (-60% once Disruption Arrow is placed in the same location) it also brings to the party.

 

I understand Luminara's bedside manner is not great, but they are right on the money: this set is intentionally being pulled away from damage (because it's a support set), away from control (because it's a support set), and hyperfocused on strong debuffs.

[King Kog]

19 minutes ago, Replacement said:

@Jono265 - the -resist on Entangling wasn't taken from Acid Arrow.

AA's resist went to Disruption Arrow (and thus gained triple the radius in the process).

We went from 40% in 2 powers (one with a terrible 8' radius) to 40% in 1 power.

The additional -20% in Entangling is just bonus, clearly intended for additional boss+ debuffing, and that's plenty.

Sure. My feedback is that it just feels like an awkward change since acid arrow filled the "boss+ debuffing" role before, and now 2 powers changed to make entangling arrow fill the same niche instead. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Guess I'll edit my original post to make it more clear.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Jono265

[Replacement]

17 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

I really feel like Acid Arrow only gained a healing debuff because they didn't want to give it a regen debuff like many people asked for. It's almost useless in PvE content as very few things heal in large enough amounts to want this effect whereas debuffing regen would be universally helpful.

 

I have no idea why this angle was chosen.

EMP Arrow still possesses a strong Regen debuff: it appears to be -1000% for the first 15 seconds, followed by 30 more seconds of -500%.

 

The only thing I'm not sure about, so I'll @Bopper, is that both Regeneration entries are flagged to IgnoreStrength -- would this result in them ignoring the +debuff effect of Acid Arrow?

[Hopestar]

1 hour ago, Replacement said:

 - poison gas arrow's sleep is a recurring field, so it should be doing a pretty effective job at chopping up alphas. Please do not also forget the -50% damage debuff (-60% once Disruption Arrow is placed in the same location) it also brings to the party.

 

I understand Luminara's bedside manner is not great, but they are right on the money: this set is intentionally being pulled away from damage (because it's a support set), away from control (because it's a support set), and hyperfocused on strong debuffs.

I understand that it's a recurring sleep, but in a team setting it doesn't really do anything. I understand it isn't a control set, but it needs some level of control to compete with the other sets that can help keep yourself and team alive besides debuffs that can be resisted. Like I said with EMP Arrow, the resist is good to have but it's in the completely wrong power at 300 second recharge and the values are pretty low on anything but Defender.

[Bossk_Hogg]

13 hours ago, macskull said:

Again, every character can pick up Apprentice Charm or Taser origin powers, both of which will light OSA.

So we both agree its just a QOL upgrade you seem hell bent on opposing for... reasons? I guess some people are just born contrarians.

[Bossk_Hogg]

12 hours ago, Vanden said:

No, any character, of any origin, can grab either at the P2W vendor.

And have to make a macro to target the fucking thing. Can we just do away with the middleman? I've yet to hear an argument about WHY you guys are so against this QOL change.