Focused Feedback: Blaster Secondary Revamp

[Eva Destruction]

6 minutes ago, Nemu said:

Doesn't have to be if they kept the recharge time on the new FOT and to hell with the stun component. Again, let's not focus on the sustain part and make this a Dynamo VS FOT discussion. This should be an Old FOT vs New FOT discussion.

 

You and I are on the same page about this, we just have to focus on FOT itself 😁

I'm talking about the FoT currently on live., which doesn't keep the current recharge.

 

The sustain isn't entirely irrelevant to that discussion.  In changing FoT to be more in-line with other Blaster AoE CC powers (some would say a clone of other Blaster AoE CC powers) there had to be a change to the sustain, since you can't have a 60-second sustain with a 90-second recharge and remain on par with the other Blaster secondaries.  Old FoT could keep Old Sustain, New FoT can't.

 

 

[JnEricsonx]

I'm gonna have to see how my DP/Temporal Blaster and my Arc/Tactical Arrow Blaster feel about this.   I liked the extra measure of control they had, at least my Arch/TA.  Plus I had Agility and Gymnastics, so reslotting stuff is gonna be a bit of a PITA.

[Nemu]

10 minutes ago, Eva Destruction said:

I'm talking about the FoT currently on live., which doesn't keep the current recharge.

 

The sustain isn't entirely irrelevant to that discussion.  In changing FoT to be more in-line with other Blaster AoE CC powers (some would say a clone of other Blaster AoE CC powers) there had to be a change to the sustain, since you can't have a 60-second sustain with a 90-second recharge and remain on par with the other Blaster secondaries.  Old FoT could keep Old Sustain, New FoT can't.

 

 

I get that, I'm way past the sustain part of FOT as it relates to any comparisons. I'm strictly focusing on the soft control/recharge time component of FOT.

 

The whole bringing Blaster T8 AoE CC powers does have it's holes no? Where does that leave burn? I can accept having FOT at the T8 slot, but the new FOT doesn't NEED to be a clone of other T8s. Keep the 30 second recharge and the KB, remove the sustain and heck remove the stuns too, and I'll accept that. But the garbage of an auto-skip power on beta right now? NOPE.

[Eva Destruction]

20 minutes ago, Nemu said:

I get that, I'm way past the sustain part of FOT as it relates to any comparisons. I'm strictly focusing on the soft control/recharge time component of FOT.

 

The whole bringing Blaster T8 AoE CC powers does have it's holes no? Where does that leave burn? I can accept having FOT at the T8 slot, but the new FOT doesn't NEED to be a clone of other T8s. Keep the 30 second recharge and the KB, remove the sustain and heck remove the stuns too, and I'll accept that. But the garbage of an auto-skip power on beta right now? NOPE.

Change Burn into a 90-sec recharge stun?

 

(I mean if powersets are going to be clones of each other, it's only fair.)

 

(No I am not serious.)

[csr]

1 hour ago, Nemu said:

The bigger issue is what they did to to the new FOT.

 

Now you turn FOT into a late pick with a 90 second timer emphasizing it's ability to reliably stun. That's a huge nerf to FOT as far as myself and some others that have posted here are concerned. If you want to nerf FOT take the stun component away from the original version and I'd still prefer that to the new version.

They even gave an "insult to injury" component by making the KB 30% chance: do you accept 30% scatter... or use a slot to stop it?  Honestly, I think the power would actually be better now without the KB at all.  Since that is now only providing mitigation against Bosses and higher that can be KBed.

[TNT]

2 hours ago, Eva Destruction said:

The changes here aren't adding damage to a toggle sustain, they are adding sustain to a damage toggle, which removes the option to slot a damage set while slotting for sustain.  It also replaces the unique mechanic of FoT with a Cauterizing Aura clone.  The only upside is that it would prevent detoggling.

I can see where you are coming from on this and I am not sold on the changes to Electric Manipulation myself, but I will need to test it out before making a solid judgement.  There are two End Mod sets that have damage integrated, Power Siphon and Synapse's Shock, and they have decent bonuses.  Maybe it isn't an ideal change but there are options for working around it. 

 

My initial reactions are very mixed.  I learned to play my elec/elec on live as a sapping blapper.  I created a new iteration, with the same general playstyle, on Homecoming and he plays quite differently than the previous version.  I will need to be flexible again, if these adjustments go through.

 

 

[Generator]

2 hours ago, Eva Destruction said:

THe problem isn't that it's not doing what it did before, the problem is that it still only takes six slots.

 

Maybe I'm biased because of all the time I spent playing /SR and /SD on Scrappers, but I don't find the current FoT ungainly at all.

It doesn't even need six.  Slot to max out the Regen, rely on its baseline Recov boost, bada bing, done.

[DuQ]

4 hours ago, ScarySai said:

I personally find the current changes nice, I get shockwave a bit earlier, I get another psychic slap for targets that resist my blasts, I get WoC earlier and the only really downside is that Scare is still a dead power.

 

CJ, not agility. CJ and gymnastics are now mutually exclusive, they were not before.

Motion to replace scare with dominate OR a single target confuse 🙂 The rest is dandy ❤️ 

[csr]

22 minutes ago, Generator said:

It doesn't even need six.  Slot to max out the Regen, rely on its baseline Recov boost, bada bing, done.

That's not what she meant.  She means that you can't recreate in Dynamo what you were getting from the sustain component of Force of Thunder AND from Lightning Field (which Dynamo replaces).  You simply don't have enough slots.  I currently have 11 slots between the two powers.  No amount of tweaking is going to let me get the same +Reg/+Rec and Acc/Dam as those currently provide.

Edited October 25, 2020 by csr

[Razor Cure]

11 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Provides knockback protection

Although great, this is an AWFUL idea. The blaster secs are already really skewed, and giving ONE set kb prot just seems..wrong.

 

11 hours ago, Jimmy said:

The self buff now auto-hits, regardless of if the enemy-targeting portion of this power hits

The fact ToB now buffs you, even IF you miss..tells me how awful the power was, when compared to all the other blaster auto sustains. Why not just tie it into an auto somehow?

 

11 hours ago, Jimmy said:

 Throw Sand

• Stun changed from Mag 3, Scale 12 to:

  • Mag 2, Scale 8 (non stacking)
  • Mag 1, Scale 5 (stacking)

I admit, I havent even taken this power on my DP/MA blaster..because when I tried it back on Original Test, it was god awful. Just SO bad. And now the stun is even worse? Perhaps someone who uses teh power has an opinion.

 

 

[Runebound]

Thanks to the GMs for all you do to keep improving Homecoming. I'm sure grateful.

 

But I'm troubled by the push to get Blasters "into melee range." This post has it right:

10 hours ago, Katharos said:

 it comes across that Homecoming is focusing more on making power sets successful on a self-contained level, rather than creating opportunities for cross-set synergy.

 

I'm concerned by this quote from the OP in particular: "lacking in incentives to get into melee range." Blaster secondaries don't have to universally motivate melee play. I'd much rather develop the individual personalities of the control-heavy blaster sets by leaving the control elements alone - that is to say, to allow them to be uniquely strong among blaster sets - while making the melee powers hot trash.

 

It's ok to reduce the power in sets that you see  as "overtuned." But nerfing a playstyle is different and should be approached with more caution. Nerfing Plants to the point of making more generically akin to others reduces the rich variety of the game, for instance.

 

Worst of all is the range nerf to Tactical Arrow. The patch cuts multiple ways into that Secondary - with increased recharge, with weakened buffs and holds - but of all those, the range nerf is the most puzzling. Surely, there should be a Blaster Secondary that favors play at range, just as so many favor melee?

 

To date, patches have been friendly to melee play. Homecoming made welcome improvements to Tankers, and those players who like Blappers have many strong options.

 

Now please keep ranged play viable, and consider scaling back this patch's nerfs on ranged abilities.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Runebound

[Eva Destruction]

43 minutes ago, csr said:

They even gave an "insult to injury" component by making the KB 30% chance: do you accept 30% scatter... or use a slot to stop it?  Honestly, I think the power would actually be better now without the KB at all.  Since that is now only providing mitigation against Bosses and higher that can be KBed.

Or change the KB to KD,, in both FoT and Thunderstrike, if the goal is to encourage players to go into melee.  Both KB and long-recharge CC powers are good for Blasters who didn't want to be in melee and are trying to get out, not so much for the Blasters-are-the-new-Scrappers crowd.

 

40 minutes ago, TNT said:

I can see where you are coming from on this and I am not sold on the changes to Electric Manipulation myself, but I will need to test it out before making a solid judgement.  There are two End Mod sets that have damage integrated, Power Siphon and Synapse's Shock, and they have decent bonuses.  Maybe it isn't an ideal change but there are options for working around it. 

There aren't any heal sets with damage in them though, and you'd need less end mod if you don't have Lightning Field sucking end anymore.

[Night]

What's gonna happen to a build's current defense enhancement slotted into Gymnastics when it becomes Oil Slick Arrow?

[Vanden]

Just now, Night said:

What's gonna happen to a build's current defense enhancement slotted into Gymnastics when it becomes Oil Slick Arrow?

It's gonna be enhancing Oil Slick Arrow, to no benefit. You can use unslotters or a respec to get them out if you want.

[csr]

2 hours ago, TNT said:

I can see where you are coming from on this and I am not sold on the changes to Electric Manipulation myself, but I will need to test it out before making a solid judgement.  There are two End Mod sets that have damage integrated, Power Siphon and Synapse's Shock, and they have decent bonuses.  Maybe it isn't an ideal change but there are options for working around it.

 

The problem is that neither of those sets includes an IO that enhances both EndMod and Acc.  The Acc ones are also 3 or 4 component IOs with useless Rech and EndRdx paired with the Acc and Dam.  Between the two sets there is one Dam/EndMod IO.  And the decent set bonuses for Power Transfer are at 4 or more slotted.  So, no, there really aren't options for working around it.  Not altogether.  You can make the most of it with Boosters and HOs, but you won't get all the way back to where you were.

Edited October 25, 2020 by csr

[Nemu]

I have a feeling most of the posters rooting for Dynamo replacing FOT are of the hover blasting crowd (don't get all triggered, read further below). I have absolute confidence the pure ranged crowd would skip FOT if it went to live regardless of whether it got modified in it's current beta state or not as long as the PBAoE tag sticks.

 

Dynamo is a QoL improvement that both ranged and melee blasters can benefit from. FOT only benefits the melee crowd.

 

Having said that I tested FOT with a few +4/8 PI radios. I had it down to about 30 seconds recharge so yes it's available every fight and it reliably triggers the FF proc. The stun on fodder lasts about 7 seconds, and I have not been able to stack stuns on bosses so far with thunder strike, as I have from time to time on live.

 

The stun gives you enough time to take out a troublesome LT like a tarantula mistress but that's about it. Without the ability to cycle KDs like we can on live the incoming damage will be increased by magnitudes for melee blasters. The risk vs reward ratio is skewed towards mostly risk and negligible reward for those that make their home in melee range. While veteran players with softcapped builds and knowledge of how to play melee blasters can most likely get by with this change if it goes on live, those that don't build for softcap and there are plenty out there, and the more casual blasters will find little benefit to this power. I anticipate that they will most likely mark this as a skip just as the pure ranged crowd does.

 

Radioactive Cloud is the closest comparison to FOT. In a vacuum they carry the same amount of risk with the PbAoE tag. However RC is a hold, and can stack with positron cell a lot more reliably than the FOT/TS interaction. In addition blaster primaries have quite a few damaging attacks with a hold component that can also stack with RC and PC. That secondary also feature beta decay which debuffs to hit, and metabolic acceleration provides more defensive benefits than Dynamo. /Elec has powersink but that in itself is not enough for an end drain strategy, and the end drain that dynamo does is not immediate and/or large enough to synergize with powersink. In short /Elec lacks the toolkit to back FOT up in its beta state.

 

As I said before, if you can rotate energy torrent and explosive blast for the KD mitigation with less risk, there is no reason why we can't have the same interaction with TS and FOT with their current recharge timers on live. Change the recharge of the new FOT to 30 seconds, remove the stun, or keep a small chance to stun if you are feeling generous. That will make both the ranged crowd and the melee crowd happy with the changes to /Elec.

[Burk]

4 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

Although great, this is an AWFUL idea. The blaster secs are already really skewed, and giving ONE set kb prot just seems..wrong.

Tactical Arrow already has knockback protection in Gymnastics. This is just saying the new Gymnastics will keep it even though it loses its immobilize protection.

[valcryst81]

As a primary /TA player i realy dislike this changes, while i appreciate the approach trying to buff it.

TA used to be great in kiting enemies using slows/hold/stuns in combination of fast movements.

 

With this changes we have to re-slot Gymnastics/ESD in order to push our toons back to old stats,

while loosing either movement speed or recharge/tohit buffs.

Maybe some $players might benefit from oil slick arrow, but there is very limited use of this for

a blaster in lvl40+ content of the game, while movement speed remains IMPORTANT as TA.

 

I hope the devs might look at this again, maybe buff the movement speed of Gymnastics a bit

and remove the abillity to enhance it with +movement speed in exchange?

 

Thanks! 🙂

[macskull]

5 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

Although great, this is an AWFUL idea. The blaster secs are already really skewed, and giving ONE set kb prot just seems..wrong.

Tac Arrow has always had KB protection.

[Recovery8]

Overall I'm okay with tac arrow changes but two small things just make the set feel kinda less fun to play now. I don't understand the logic behind the Electrified Net Arrow and Ice Arrow changes. They are super noticeable and hurt the set over all, Also would have liked to see something unique added to the set over Oil Slick Arrow, personal opinion OSA doesn't fit Tac Arrow. The Combination of Gym was a great call though and does feel super nice over all. 

[MindOverMatter]

8 hours ago, MindOverMatter said:
 

Touch of the Beyond’s regen values are still (as of this Beta) impacted by enemy level. Thus, TotB performs significantly weaker when used against higher-level foes.

 

Just checked this again in-game and confirmed with Bopper that while the recovery is flagged to Ignore level differences, the regeneration in Touch of the Beyond is not flagged to ignore.

 

Is this WAI?

[Runebound]

16 minutes ago, Recovery8 said:

Overall I'm okay with tac arrow changes but two small things just make the set feel kinda less fun to play now. I don't understand the logic behind the Electrified Net Arrow and Ice Arrow changes. They are super noticeable and hurt the set over all

 

Agreed. Cutting the reach to force Tac Arrow users "into melee range" tries to make the set into something it's not.

 

Make us play tactically if you must. Keep the other changes and we have to play with care. Ice arrow takes 50% longer to recharge and Upshot's recharge bonus is halved, with its other buffs cut. Flash Arrow can be resisted. ESD arrow has a weaker hold. We need to watch out: fine.

But let us do it at range. Not every Blaster has to be a Blapper.

[HyperAi]

As someone that has put more time on my arch/ta blaster then any of my other characters I'm completely fine with MOST of the overall changes to the set. TA just overperformed in so many ways. I mean lets be honest, the set needed some balancing. We all knew it was coming. The range balance makes perfect sense. Merging agility and gymnastics to fit in oil slick takes nothing away (except +jump) and opens up more options. What I don't like is removing the +jump from gymnastics. With no melee attacks TA needs the evasion boost, especially when its loosing range from its utilities. Bring the +jump back into the mix and I can fully get behind the changes.

[LQT]

20 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Force of Thunder

• Moved from T6 to T8 (see Power Order Changes below)
• No longer provides a sustain buff

So what's happening to the 2.5% Defiance buff it granted?

[csr]

35 minutes ago, LQT said:

So what's happening to the 2.5% Defiance buff it granted?

It's still there.