Hybrid power pools

[Aeroprism]

... for a lack of better term. How do you guys call them anyways?

 

I am of course speaking of the Experimentation. Force of Will and Sorcery power pools. I said "hybrid" because they combine elements from many flavors and add one travel power.

 

Do people ever use them? I don't think I've ever seen a build with one of those on here. 

 

My guess is that they are levelling tools that you eventually spec-out when you reach endgame but I could be wrong.

 

What's the general opinion?

[Onlyasandwich]

Sorcery is used on squishies very often for rune of protection mostly. Brutes like RoP to reach that last bit to resist cap sometimes, especially on sets like rad armor or willpower that have another resist clickie they can rotate in.

 

Mystic flight is also just flat out better than flight if the theme works for you and you aren't going after other flight powers.

 

I used to pick experimentation pretty often just for jaunt, but less so now that we have combat teleport. The attacks are a little stronger and more proccable than other pool attacks, so can make a good supplement to an at lacking offense.

 

I see people take the resist debuff from force of will, though it is probably less used overall. I haven't played with this pool much myself.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Onlyasandwich

[EdgeOfDreams]

IIRC they were supposed to be "Origin" power pools:

• Force of Will = Natural
• Sorcery = Magic
• Experimentation = Science
• Gadgets (not released yet) = Tech
• I forget if the Mutant one ever had a name.

They have some fun uses on certain builds, but you're right that they aren't super popular. As far as I can tell, the big issue is that they don't offer an equivalent of Combat Jumping, Hasten, or Hover, which are three of the best and most popular pool powers. And if you're already taking one of those, you might as well take the Travel power from the same pool. Attacks, buffs, and debuffs from pool powers tend to be weak as well, so there isn't a ton of motivation to take those either.

Edited December 12, 2020 by EdgeOfDreams

[Doomguide2005]

Depends I've definitely seen late and endgame builds using Sorcery ... in particular Rune of Protection

 

In addition to what's mentioned above it's a spot where the two Resistance +3% uniques can be placed if your build doesn't wish to include Tough/Fighting pool.

[The Scandinavian]

It would be great to be able to pick two epic power pools or one epic and one patron pool or two patron sets.....defeats the purpose I guess to have two Patron sets but one Epic and one Patron....why can't that be done ?

[Greycat]

YOu don't ever see them, OP? It might be from people putting no-FX options on - in that case, Mystic Flight and regular Fly look the exact same. Same with Speed of Sound and Super speed.

 

I know I see (and use) them a fair bit. Probably less with Experimentation - not really fond of the sound setup for speed of sound.

[Techwright]

I use the Force of Will set often.  In fact, for my jump-themed characters, I only have the original jump set on a character who showed signs of needing a defense power from the pool (combat jumping).

 

Force of Will has Stomp, which I use all the time.  For my tanks and brutes, it gives another knockdown AoE.  For my ranged squishies, it gives a good chance to shake those melee antagonists who slipped past the melee line to duke it out with the back row.

 

FoW also has two ranged attacks, both with psionics as part of the deal, and one is a conical attack.  All told that's perfect for giving my tanks a bit of range striking when the team's rangers aren't picking off the sniper out of the tank's melee range.  And yeah, for my ranged types, the two ranged attacks are not as powerful as their native stuff, but it's still two more, and with psionics.

 

Finally, FoW has Unleashed Potential, useful for just about every character I have.

[ZorkNemesis]

4 hours ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

IIRC they were supposed to be "Origin" power pools:

• Force of Will = Natural
• Sorcery = Magic
• Experimentation = Science
• Gadgets (not released yet) = Tech
• I forget if the Mutant one ever had a name.

If I recall, Force of Will is the Mutant pool while Utility Belt is the Natural pool.  Though Mutant is difficult to portray at times anyway.

 

As for the original topic, Force of Will is a common pick for me and others.  Mighty Leap is just flat out better than Super Jump (the two are identical, but Mighty Leap also includes Stomp for a PBAoE knockdown and a Jump Speed cap increase to put it at the same speed as Super Speed).  Unless you can't afford an extra pool over Leaping or want to have Acrobatics/Spring Attack, I see no reason to use Super Jump over Mighty Leap.  The other powers can be made to work, though i'm less likely to take them.  I like the attacks but the animations were a little long for my liking while Weaken Resolve can be good for softening up a tougher foe if you lack debuffs.

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by ZorkNemesis

[Gulbasaur]

Sorcery is probably my favourite powerpool  - Mystic Flight lets you telenuke and fly. Rune of Protection is better than a couple of armour set T9s. Spirit Ward is a very good power that I think gets slept on - it's a 50% absorb power, doled out in instalments and a really strong teammate-saver. Enflame is a good utility power because enemies are programmed to avoid patches and it's a patch that follow an enemy, meaning it's very good at breaking up a crowd if you get overpowered. Slap it on a boss and they will almost always go walkies. 

[Player2]

4 hours ago, EdgeOfDreams said:

IIRC they were supposed to be "Origin" power pools:

• Force of Will = Natural
• Sorcery = Magic
• Experimentation = Science
• Gadgets (not released yet) = Tech
• I forget if the Mutant one ever had a name.

They have some fun uses on certain builds, but you're right that they aren't super popular. As far as I can tell, the big issue is that they don't offer an equivalent of Combat Jumping, Hasten, or Hover, which are three of the best and most popular pool powers. And if you're already taking one of those, you might as well take the Travel power from the same pool. Attacks, buffs, and debuffs from pool powers tend to be weak as well, so there isn't a ton of motivation to take those either.

Force of Will isn't "Natural," it would be the Mutant option.  Psionics (weaken resolve, project will) is pretty common among mutants... and regenerating (which unleash potential boosts) is the signature power of Marvel's most popular mutant.

 

The origin pools are:

 

Sorcery = Magic

Force of Will = Mutant

Experimentation = Science

Gadgets = Technology

Utility Belt = Natural

 

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Utility_Belt

 

It sounds like Utility Belt belt might cross over with Gadgets for Technology, but the gadgets that come out of the utility belt are a little less tech oriented (bola, poison dagger), but this set also includes a more Natural-friendly travel power of Free Running and a non-gadget attack with Flying Strike.

[biostem]

I like them if you want to dip into a variety of powers, instead of taking a more focused power pool.  For instance, the super jump and foot stomp that it gives offers a great 2-for-1 power pick on tight builds.  Poison dart can be a handy pulling power on melee builds prior to getting your epic set, and the SS + limited teleport is pretty fun to mess around with.  Either way, I'm glad to have the option to take these sets...

[Player2]

As for using these pools, yes I do.  I try to squeeze in Sorcery on any spellcasting character I have for the sake of flavor.

 

On a number of characters I try to squeeze in both Force of Will and Presence to have both Unleash Potential and Unrelenting on standby.

 

And I have two characters that were a perfect fit for Experimentation.  My favorite tanker is a science-based grower (using costume change emote of drinking a potion to switch from 5' to 8' tall).  Having other chemical compounds on hand to weaken foes (Corrosive Vial) and and boost my damage & recharge (Adrenal Booster) in those tough fights.  Plus, it's really fun to shout "I stabbed you with science" as I hit squishy ally with big syringe full of green liquid (Experimental Injection).  The other is my homebrew attempt at a melee support character... a martial arts / willpower scrapper with Experimentation, Medicine, and Leadership pools so I can heal, rez, buff, and debuff.

[Clave Dark 5]

8 hours ago, Aeroprism said:

Do people ever use them? I don't think I've ever seen a build with one of those on here.

Like Twitter, the forums are not the game.  😃 Most people here are dedicated min/maxers - which is fine for them! - but don't care much about discussing concept builds, which is where you might find more flavors of powers being used.

 

Me, I just picked up Bile Spray for my Ill/TA troller because he's annoying and I've never had it before.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Clave Dark 5
ha ha, what a typo

[nihilii]

I've tried to make these pools on many characters, but there seems to be a trend: the newer pools are balanced, while the legacy power pools are left alone in their mix of overpowered and clunky.

 

So I end up with Hasten, Combat Jumping, Tough/Weave and Maneuvers/Tactics/Assault 99% of the time.

Sorcery is a solid replacement for Leadership when you're building a character without native mez protection, or even when you're just looking to be beefier. Rune of Protection, basically. If you want to fly and have the powers to spare, you might as well go Sorcery rather than Fly.

Edited December 12, 2020 by nihilii

[SuperPlyx]

I really wanted to use Experimentation to replace Hasten/SS on a couple of toons but having to use 3 picks instead of 2 and then the Adrenal Boost is a 10 minute CD....nope.

[WumpusRat]

10 hours ago, Greycat said:

YOu don't ever see them, OP? It might be from people putting no-FX options on - in that case, Mystic Flight and regular Fly look the exact same. Same with Speed of Sound and Super speed.

 

I know I see (and use) them a fair bit. Probably less with Experimentation - not really fond of the sound setup for speed of sound.

Just swap out the sound file for the power to something you like better. I did that with the sonic attack set, since the sounds for that really bugged me. Same with beam rifle.

[Aeroprism]

Wow... this is why I really love this place: ask one obscure question and get showered with answers, ideas, concepts and love.  You guys are the best!

 

I wanted to use force of will for my Kin/EA Stalker.  Now I know that doing so IS a good idea 🙂  Thanks!  I'll try to see what characters among my legions of alts might benefit from the two others I have yet to try.

[OmegaOne]

I've made extensive use of Force of WIll on my Mind/Kin controller, and I've seen lots of people use Sorcery.

 

If the devs ever get around to implementing Utility Belt and especially Gadgets, I have a couple of characters in mind that are itching to use them as well!  ;^p  just sayin'

Edited December 12, 2020 by OmegaOne

[DR_Mechano]

11 hours ago, ZorkNemesis said:

If I recall, Force of Will is the Mutant pool while Utility Belt is the Natural pool.  Though Mutant is difficult to portray at times anyway.

 

As for the original topic, Force of Will is a common pick for me and others.  Mighty Leap is just flat out better than Super Jump (the two are identical, but Mighty Leap also includes Stomp for a PBAoE knockdown and a Jump Speed cap increase to put it at the same speed as Super Speed).  Unless you can't afford an extra pool over Leaping or want to have Acrobatics/Spring Attack, I see no reason to use Super Jump over Mighty Leap.  The other powers can be made to work, though i'm less likely to take them.  I like the attacks but the animations were a little long for my liking while Weaken Resolve can be good for softening up a tougher foe if you lack debuffs.

 

Yeah one of the main reasons I take Super Jump over Force of Will is because on a lot of my builds they're power pools are already full and I want to work Combat Jumping in without taking an extra pool, it adds an extra 3.5-5% defense.