scrappers Scrapper Passive rework?

[hiimaura]

I like the idea of scrappers being able to critically strike. Perhaps my bias for more complex game mechanics will show here, but I think the current passive just seems bland, and impossible to work around because of the inherent nature of RNG. However, I think it'd be interesting to incorporate some sort of mechanic that makes the critical strikes consistent and controllable instead of random. Here's some ideas:

• Have a Brute-like fury bar that charges up on attacks. Every X attacks (four or so) is a guaranteed crit, and drains the bar. Possibly also make the first attack in combat crit?
• Similar to above, but a Dominator-like power that can be activated as the user chooses to make their next attack critically strike.
• A lot more work, but have each powerset from the scrapper pool have a unique, or somewhat unique, criteria that makes attacks critically strike (i.e., Battle Axe crits when, for example, a target reaches 50% health)

I think this would give scrappers a nice change, and given the direction this game has been going since release (with adding more interesting mechanics), I think it would work well. What do you guys think? 

[BrandX]

I like the Scrapper inherent as is.  However, is I was to make a suggestion as to how to add to it...

 

First, Kinetic Melee's Concentrated Strike needs to be able to get some extra damage.  All attacks on Scrappers, imo, should do more damage when they crit.

 

Then, after that, maybe go the route of something similar to Concentrated Strike.  When it crits, it instant recharges Power Siphon.  So, what I would suggest, is when the Scrapper uses their tier 9 (or single target big hitter) something like KM's CS crit happens.

 

Doesn't have to recharge build ups.  Could auto crit the next attack for instance.

 

But I will say, I don't feel Scrappers are any rough spot or in need of buffs.  They're pretty awesome 🙂

[Wavicle]

I think making such drastic changes to one of the original ATs this far into the game's development is asking too much. The changes to Tankers really stretched it about as far as it can go. The above suggestion is too much of a change.

Flexibility is one of the game's best features. Brutes and Stalkers exist so you can play something that works closer to what you're asking for. Scrappers are there for people who want something simpler. Both are good.

[Leogunner]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

I think making such drastic changes to one of the original ATs this far into the game's development is asking too much. The changes to Tankers really stretched it about as far as it can go. The above suggestion is too much of a change.

Flexibility is one of the game's best features. Brutes and Stalkers exist so you can play something that works closer to what you're asking for. Scrappers are there for people who want something simpler. Both are good.

First of all, I'm pretty sure the OP is suggesting an *addition*, not a change.  While I'm certain semantics could be argued in the difference between the two, the intent of the OP is obviously to facilitate a discussion on possible changes, not specifically the changes he's suggesting.

 

Whether a suggestion is too drastic or outside of the capacity of development is going to hinge more on specific proposals.  I'm still reminded of the devs talking about new code for vectored KB which gives me the perception that they are willing to make new tools and look for places to use them.  If it's for this idea or another unrelated improvement leaves me with a different perspective of what game developments are up for discussion.

 

With regards to the OP and additions to Scrapper mechanics, I'm more or less in the camp that feels controllable crits are the realm of Stalkers and even for them perhaps reigning in their capabilities is probably something to consider (simply making fast AS only accessible with maxed focus, for example).  If I were suggesting a proposal for an interactive inherent anyway for discussion's sake...off the top of my head:

 

Overkill: An addition to the AT's Critical Strikes inherent similar to Stalker's Assassin's Focus where you gain a charge of "Overkill" if an attack deals a certain amount of damage over the target's current HP.  You can build a maximum of 3 charges and each charge is expended individually.  The powers that expend them would be the tier 1, 2, 3 and PBAoE attacks which will get 100% crit chance.  A critical that expends an Overkill charge can also gain a charge if said crit is overkill.

 

This is a bit different from Stalker who will use their single 100% crit opportunity at the start and more strategically, likely with their high damage burst attacks.  The Scrapper with this addition doesn't ever get to start with Overkill but rather have to build it by defeating foes (which is, in and of itself, different from Fury which is built by taking damage and using attacks) and the controlled crit opportunity is limited but has multiples to DPS oriented powers.  In circumstances where you're dealing with 1 hard target, this won't come into effect but it won't have to because Scraps tend to deal the best DPS on high-rank non-resistant targets than any other melee when given time.  It would come into play with more standard engagements, however.

[Haijinx]

Some suggestions I think belong in a list of ..

 

"Possible ideas for COH2"  

[hiimaura]

5 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Flexibility is one of the game's best features. Brutes and Stalkers exist so you can play something that works closer to what you're asking for. Scrappers are there for people who want something simpler. Both are good.

 I suppose what the intent of my original suggestion was to add some dynamic to Scrappers. The idea of having an "every couple of attacks or so crit" CAN be played the same as the archetype plays now. Press powers, hit things, get crits every so often. Nothing is forcing you to make those crits count. Having the knowledge of when your next attack can crit, in theory, will give players an option to make smarter choices with which attack to use (i.e. should I crit a whole group with a weaker attack, or one stronger enemy with a strong single-target attack?). Of course, this option isn't super necessary unless you want to min-max or PVP, but it's there for players who want some extra challenge.

[Uun]

What you're suggesting is converting Scrappers into Stalkers, which have powers that are guaranteed to crit. You can already get pretty close on Scrappers with the Critical Strikes proc, which provides a 50% chance to crit for a few seconds. I don't feel like any changes to Scrapper criticals is warranted. 

[Coyotedancer]

9 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I think making such drastic changes to one of the original ATs this far into the game's development is asking too much. The changes to Tankers really stretched it about as far as it can go. The above suggestion is too much of a change.

Flexibility is one of the game's best features. Brutes and Stalkers exist so you can play something that works closer to what you're asking for. Scrappers are there for people who want something simpler. Both are good.

 

'Was about to say, if you want controllable Crits... play a Stalker. 🤣

[Doomguide2005]

Choice should not be confused with difficulty.  A  controlled vs random critical seems to verge on being an oxymoron (or perhaps misnamed).  Assassin's Strike or a 'true' Sniper attack are delivered on an unaware target at vital areas of a foe by an attacker who chooses when, where, and how to deliver the blow.  A scrapper slashing, clawing, punching his way through a horde of foes isn't taking the time to line up an exacting shot (but every now and then ... ).  The random flow of the fight make the crits also random.  At least that's my mental image. YMMV and all that. 

 

That and non-random crits may make for choices, even interesting ones, in general removing randomness or increasing predictability reduce the challenge overall.

 

Might be more appropriate to increase the crit chances as the character levels if something of this nature were desired.  A more experienced, capable combatant is going to have a better 'feel' for the flow of a fight and how to influence things to generate better outcomes (i.e. more crits, faster defeats).

[Wavicle]

3 hours ago, hiimaura said:

 I suppose what the intent of my original suggestion was to add some dynamic to Scrappers. The idea of having an "every couple of attacks or so crit" CAN be played the same as the archetype plays now. Press powers, hit things, get crits every so often. Nothing is forcing you to make those crits count. Having the knowledge of when your next attack can crit, in theory, will give players an option to make smarter choices with which attack to use (i.e. should I crit a whole group with a weaker attack, or one stronger enemy with a strong single-target attack?). Of course, this option isn't super necessary unless you want to min-max or PVP, but it's there for players who want some extra challenge.

You’re literally describing Stalkers.

 

 Try playing a Stalker and also try adding the Scrapper ATO procs to your Scrapper.

[Razor Cure]

I like how Scrappers work atm. Especially with the ATOs.

That said..stalkers (and thier ATOs) ARE basically better at scrapping (at least getting crits) than actual scrappers..

But how to fix that? Or does it need to be? I think it makes some sense that a ninja AT can get more reliable/on demand crits than an AT that is basically point, run, stab.

 

AN idea though. ST taunt on scrappers are utterly shite. Make them do a small fear/to hit debuff/something effect, AND provide a crit bonus to your next attack, as you psyche yourself up. I still would hardly ever take the taunts..but it would be something, and give scrappers a bit more reliability on critting. Or give each set's major ST attack a +crit chance on the next power, like Eagles Claw. Perhaps less effective.

[Galaxy Brain]

Really sideways point, but I feel like all ATs should have had crits and then Scrappers get something else

[SeraphimKensai]

New inherent: Scrapperlock.

Attacks can crit for double damage. Furthermore, gain a stacking 0.5% chance to crit, for each attack made, up to 100 stacks. Stacks reset when leaving combat.

[Wavicle]

A few people don’t like Scrappers as they are. That is not evidence that they are weak and need a buff.

[nihilii]

Wish granted, OP!

 

Log in game now. Buy the Critical Strikes proc ATO. Slot it in your biggest hitter. Refrain from adding any local recharge to this power. Enjoy your controllable crits.

 

😉

[Wavicle]

5 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

New inherent: Scrapperlock.

Attacks can crit for double damage. Furthermore, gain a stacking 0.5% chance to crit, for each attack made, up to 100 stacks. Stacks reset when leaving combat.

Something like this could only work if the stacks also reset whenever you crit.

[GGamerGirl]

I don't know if this would be an extension or a change to the Critical Strike power, but I was thinking of a Retaliate mechanic. When in combat, any damage you take or dodge has a 50% chance to add a stack of "Retaliate" on yourself. With five stacks of Retaliate, your next damaging ability deals a critical hit. I sort of got the idea from the Stalker's ability to gain stacks when they hit a foe with damage, with three stacks allowing them to perform an Assassin's Strike as if they were hidden.

[aethereal]

2 hours ago, GGamerGirl said:

I don't know if this would be an extension or a change to the Critical Strike power, but I was thinking of a Retaliate mechanic. When in combat, any damage you take or dodge has a 50% chance to add a stack of "Retaliate" on yourself. With five stacks of Retaliate, your next damaging ability deals a critical hit. I sort of got the idea from the Stalker's ability to gain stacks when they hit a foe with damage, with three stacks allowing them to perform an Assassin's Strike as if they were hidden.

I am told that CoH currently has no concept of "triggered" effects on getting attacked or hit.  That is, there's nothing in code that examines a character that you just attacked to see if they should trigger some power of that character.

 

Obviously, it would not be impossible to add such a thing, but it'd be a big change.

[Vanden]

Sometimes when I’m a Scrapper I fight too much and run out of endurance, so I have to wait a while to recover it, but then my teammates get in trouble and I want to help them but I don’t have enough endurance to attack so I think it would be great if Scrappers got an endurance discount when their teammates get low on health

Edited February 16, 2021 by Vanden

[Haijinx]

I think some characters,  well more specifically, just my characters, should get that buff they give you on that first Incarnate Alpha slot mission.  

 

Now that would be a cool inherent. 

[Wavicle]

I think they should replace Confront for all sets with original Energy Transfer and Lightning Rod put together.

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, Wavicle said:

I think they should replace Confront for all sets with original Energy Transfer and Lightning Rod put together.

all heals should work like Rise of the Phoenix 

[nihilii]

It would be great if Blaze and Fireball were combined into one power dealing the damage of Blaze with the AoE of Fireball. Call it Blazeball, and give it to every blaster at level 1.

[Wavicle]

Just now, nihilii said:

It would be great if Blaze and Fireball were combined into one power dealing the damage of Blaze with the AoE of Fireball. Call it Blazeball, and give it to every blaster at level 1.

Every Blaster?

 

 All archetypes should get that as their required level 1 secondary.

[Haijinx]

18 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Every Blaster?

 

 All archetypes should get that as their required level 1 secondary.

Except Brutes.  They are currently in the doghouse

 

And no one who has /regen gets it.