Dual Blades Combo System Update

[xl8]

Can DB be brought in line with other combo systems so that if a power misses, you don't have to restart the whole combo again. Ty.

[SeraphimKensai]

All they have to do is extend the time the orange ring stays on the various powers by a few seconds and that would help I'm the event you whiff.

[BrandX]

I'm not against this, if it doesn't touch the damage of the attacks at all, because this would be an increase in damage. 🙂

[Black Zot]

16 hours ago, BrandX said:

I'm not against this, if it doesn't touch the damage of the attacks at all, because this would be an increase in damage. 🙂

 

I doubt "too much damage" is ever going to be an issue on a set that relies on the most-resisted damage type in the game.

[SeraphimKensai]

Honestly regarding the damage of the set, it's kind of subpar. I've been playing my IO'd DB/Ninjistu Scrapper quite a bit lately, and it doesn't have a lot of burst, and I get that, but what could be cool is if the attacks left a lingering DoT bleeding effect could be useful, especially after you've engaged mobs and they try and run away.

[Galaxy Brain]

3 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Honestly regarding the damage of the set, it's kind of subpar. I've been playing my IO'd DB/Ninjistu Scrapper quite a bit lately, and it doesn't have a lot of burst, and I get that, but what could be cool is if the attacks left a lingering DoT bleeding effect could be useful, especially after you've engaged mobs and they try and run away.

It does do that with attack vitals, and DB stalkers go ham on DPS!

 

As for the suggestion, I think that combos shouldn't end on miss as long as you "perform" the motions. If you miss the last bit sure, but starting over from square one just ain't fun!

[SeraphimKensai]

3 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

As for the suggestion, I think that combos shouldn't end on miss as long as you "perform" the motions. If you miss the last bit sure, but starting over from square one just ain't fun!

I totally agree with that too, because now for a combo you have approximately 3x the likelihood of rolling a miss and ruining the combo. So extending the window, and making it not necessarily fail on a starter or continuing attack would definitely help.

 

 

[summers]

If you extend the window instead of ending the combo on a miss, what happens if you use a starter in the new extension?

 

Does it start a new combo, or does it ignore that and stay in the old combo, awaiting the next correct move?

 

I'd be happy to see the combo effects greatly improved 🙂

 

[BrandX]

I've mained DB and really, I feel like so many people really lack the accuracy when they play DB, because they act like they miss all the time.  

[oldskool]

14 hours ago, BrandX said:

I've mained DB and really, I feel like so many people really lack the accuracy when they play DB, because they act like they miss all the time.  

They've done studies you know.  60% of the time we miss every time. 

[Slithershot]

With a DB/EA stalker as one of my mains, I can safely say it easily puts out some of the highest single target damage I have across all my characters.

 

That being said, I use one combo on the regular, and that's sweep. And only because it fits into my attack rotation naturally. Occasionally I'll use weaken if I'm using thousand cuts for the AOE but.... 80% of the time it's sweep and only sweep. Anything else and my damage would take serious dips. 

 

How can that be fixed? Hell if I know. Frankly, I love my DB character so much that I don't care. 

 

As to the suggestion, I don't see how extending the combo activation window would hurt anything. It would rarely benefit me, but I could see it being a huge QoL improvement for all the other ATs that use the combos and such. 

[BrandX]

6 hours ago, Pizzamurai said:

With a DB/EA stalker as one of my mains, I can safely say it easily puts out some of the highest single target damage I have across all my characters.

 

That being said, I use one combo on the regular, and that's sweep. And only because it fits into my attack rotation naturally. Occasionally I'll use weaken if I'm using thousand cuts for the AOE but.... 80% of the time it's sweep and only sweep. Anything else and my damage would take serious dips. 

 

How can that be fixed? Hell if I know. Frankly, I love my DB character so much that I don't care. 

 

As to the suggestion, I don't see how extending the combo activation window would hurt anything. It would rarely benefit me, but I could see it being a huge QoL improvement for all the other ATs that use the combos and such. 

 

I soloed ITF (w/out Incarnates) and AVs with just BF > Attack Vitals > Repeat.

 

It's DPS is not lacking.  The problem people have is purely a mental one, in which they didn't get to see their combo's name appear.  Though, I have to wonder if they're lacking ACC/To-Hit, as I get the combo off often, not, once in a blue moon.  😛 

[Slithershot]

15 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

I soloed ITF (w/out Incarnates) and AVs with just BF > Attack Vitals > Repeat.

 

It's DPS is not lacking.  The problem people have is purely a mental one, in which they didn't get to see their combo's name appear.  Though, I have to wonder if they're lacking ACC/To-Hit, as I get the combo off often, not, once in a blue moon.  😛 

Oh, I don't doubt it. I just meant without combos I can rival street justice and the other top sets with an optimal single target rotation. People have been underestimating DB for a long time (myself included before I had one). DB is strong as hell... specially when you work in procs.

 

I will say the accuracy is a minor issue for me as well though, more-so than my other melee characters. I've missed two hits in a row after build up, which boggles the mind. But that is what it is 🙂

Edited February 9, 2021 by Pizzamurai
stuff

[aethereal]

2 hours ago, Pizzamurai said:

I will say the accuracy is a minor issue for me as well though, more-so than my other melee characters. I've missed two hits in a row after build up, which boggles the mind. But that is what it is 🙂

BU > attack1 > attack2, and both attack1 and attack2 missed?

 

Should be literally impossible due to streakbreaker as long as your adjusted chance to hit with attack1 is > 90%.  It's hard to imagine having less than a 90% chance to hit right after BU unless you're either:

 

1.  Under a to-hit debuff of some kind

2.  Attacking a high-defense enemy

3.  Literally not enhancing right

 

As a result, my suspicion is that when it happened, you were under a to-hit debuff that you didn't know about, or you were attacking a high-defense enemy and didn't realize they were high defense.

[Galaxy Brain]

Even with perfect accuracy you always have a 5% miss chance. I just think it'd be nice if the power activates you dont drop the next bit of the combo.

[Bopper]

On 2/4/2021 at 11:00 AM, xl8 said:

Can DB be brought in line with other combo systems so that if a power misses, you don't have to restart the whole combo again. Ty.

They certainly could. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been done already since it would be very easy to implement. My guess is, if they are holding off on making this change it is because they might have additional ideas for the set. No point in touching a set for one thing if it's gonna get a balance pass anyways. Again, that's a guess.

[Draeth Darkstar]

On 2/8/2021 at 4:27 PM, Pizzamurai said:

With a DB/EA stalker as one of my mains, I can safely say it easily puts out some of the highest single target damage I have across all my characters.

Do keep in mind that DB on Stalkers is completely different from all of the other melee ATs, moreso than any other set. The stalker combos are widely considered to be better, and the addition of an Assassin's Strike to an otherwise very slow animating set increases its single target damage far beyond what the others can do.

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Dual_Blades#Combination_Attacks

[oldskool]

6 hours ago, Draeth Darkstar said:

Do keep in mind that DB on Stalkers is completely different from all of the other melee ATs, moreso than any other set. The stalker combos are widely considered to be better, and the addition of an Assassin's Strike to an otherwise very slow animating set increases its single target damage far beyond what the others can do.

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Dual_Blades#Combination_Attacks

I've seen arguments completely opposite of this.  

I do have a hard time seeing how Stalker Attack Vitals (Power Slice, Nimble Slice, Vengeful Slice) is better than the other ATs that get to use both Ablative Strike and Sweeping Strike.  The Stalker version animates slightly slower in total time spent and has lower DPA powers as part of the string.  

Only the Sweep Combo on Stalkers "feels" better since using Building Up -> Assassin's Blades -> Ablative Strike has a somewhat natural tempo to it.  However, the other ATs also have Typhoon's Edge which is one of the biggest selling points.  Empower on Stalkers has its perks, but the need to use Placate is annoying.  

For Stalkers, I can see an even stronger drive to not use combos at all and just hammer out Assassin's Blades, Ablative Strike, and Sweeping Strike.  My DB/EA is certainly built this way.  On Scrappers I don't mind relaxing global recharge requirements to just use Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals. 

[Slithershot]

19 hours ago, aethereal said:

BU > attack1 > attack2, and both attack1 and attack2 missed?

 

Should be literally impossible due to streakbreaker as long as your adjusted chance to hit with attack1 is > 90%.  It's hard to imagine having less than a 90% chance to hit right after BU unless you're either:

 

1.  Under a to-hit debuff of some kind

2.  Attacking a high-defense enemy

3.  Literally not enhancing right

 

As a result, my suspicion is that when it happened, you were under a to-hit debuff that you didn't know about, or you were attacking a high-defense enemy and didn't realize they were high defense.

It was against a pylon when it happened. It doesn't happen often, so I chalked it up to really bad luck. 

[Slithershot]

10 hours ago, Draeth Darkstar said:

Do keep in mind that DB on Stalkers is completely different from all of the other melee ATs, moreso than any other set. The stalker combos are widely considered to be better, and the addition of an Assassin's Strike to an otherwise very slow animating set increases its single target damage far beyond what the others can do.

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Dual_Blades#Combination_Attacks

Yep, that's why I said what I did. Electric melee is the same way 🙂

Edited February 10, 2021 by Pizzamurai

[aethereal]

19 minutes ago, Pizzamurai said:

It was against a pylon when it happened. It doesn't happen often, so I chalked it up to really bad luck. 

Were you running a damage aura?  What may have happened is the sequence actually went:

 

BU > attack1 > aura rolls to hit > attack2

 

Streakbreaker hits the aura attack roll and so then it's just a 1/400 chance of getting two 5% attacks independently -- which is certainly rare, but not so rare that one won't see it.

[Slithershot]

2 minutes ago, aethereal said:

Were you running a damage aura?  What may have happened is the sequence actually went:

 

BU > attack1 > aura rolls to hit > attack2

 

Streakbreaker hits the aura attack roll and so then it's just a 1/400 chance of getting two 5% attacks independently -- which is certainly rare, but not so rare that one won't see it.

It was a DB/EA. I dunno what happened tbh XD

I was just recording pylon times at the time. 

[Greycat]

I've got to be honest, I pretty much completely ignore the combo system when on a DB. If something happens to be ready and I notice, I may use it, but... *shrug* Otherwise, yeah. Extending the time or not ending the combo? Wouldn't argue with it.

[Replacement]

Don't forget - if you interrupt a combo with a new opener, you don't open the new combo but you do lose your old combo. Lose-lose!

[Galaxy Brain]

Not to bring up (Other Dimensions), but I think there is a (dimension) where DB was altered to be like StJ in that you just build up combos into Finishers.... any thoughts on that?