The Warriors are boring - is that a problem?

[JKPhage]

edit - accidental double post. Sorry!

Edited February 19, 2021 by JKPhage

[Hydrothermia]

I think we've been leaning too much into Greek and Roman pantheons (Even though I know that CoH lore is ingrained with the Greeks/Romans influences in much of its origin stories.) and this would be a prime opportunity to expand into other pantheons, say the Norse. It hasn't been touched outside of Valkyrie/Battle Maiden and even then they still lean towards more medieval imagery of knights of England and France (5th - 15th c.). Could it be argued that we have enough "barbarian" clothing options to make it more viable for the Warriors to be more in tune with the Danes/Vikings and Norse gods like Odin, Thor, Freya, even Loki, etc. (Obviously no skullcaps with horns, it's not an accurate depiction of the Danes/Vikings.)

[Soyuz]

I look forward to being body slammed across the map by Warrior Shield Maidens.

[Replacement]

11 hours ago, Hydrothermia said:

(Obviously no skullcaps with horns, it's not an accurate depiction of the Danes/Vikings.)

The Warriors are absolutely the type to not know this, and yet still base their identify around it though.

 

But also, Warriors wear modern clothes, so I don't see why they would need norse clothing.

[SaintD]

It's not a problem. Some bad guys are just there to be goons who get smashed. They're not a big focus of the game, it's fine.

[Clave Dark 5]

On 2/17/2021 at 11:57 AM, Herotu said:

They need an end drain or CC specialist. People would care then, but I think for the wrong reasons....

For a low level group, I think they're decent enough, they hit hard.  I know I've been taken down by them before (probably while bemoaning my Endurance issues but anyway).  There's just not too much visual or thematic pizazz to "gang members" to me, which could just be me.

[Xeres]

Nah, I don't think them being "boring" is a problem.  In Talos, you have Tsoo, COT, and Freakshow.  I don't think any of those 3 are boring.  Not every group has to be overly unique I think.

[the1egend1ives]

On 2/16/2021 at 10:50 AM, Hew said:

There are no actual "natural" enemies past the warriors. Everyone in Crey are Science. You get arachnos with guns, but then most of those are science too (crabs w/ backpacks, sciencey stealth powers), leaving just the guys with machine guns...

 

Oh, correction. You get the medics in Crey, which oddly, are natural origin (guns, med packs)

Malta and Knives of Artemis

[the1egend1ives]

On 2/17/2021 at 4:12 AM, Grouchybeast said:

I would.  I mean, I wouldn't cry into my pillow at night over it, or anything, but it would be a shame to have the single solitary Natural origin group who actually have a philosophical commitment to achieving perfection as unaugmented humans turn out to be just another bunch of magic users after all.

I don't think the use of magical artifacts betrays their natural origin, anymore than wielding a bow would. If we're going by the rules as written according to CoH, Relics are dual origin enhancements able to be used by magic and natural heroes.

[Black Zot]

1 hour ago, the1egend1ives said:

Malta and Knives of Artemis

 

Malta is mostly Tech, whether they want to acknowledge it or not.

[the1egend1ives]

17 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

Malta is mostly Tech, whether they want to acknowledge it or not.

If they use ammunition, then they're still natural. Sure, the titans and sappers are tech, but the bulk of their forces are just highly trained agents with guns. Even the bosses.

Edited February 23, 2021 by the1egend1ives

[mechahamham]

One thing I haven't seen in this thread yet is the fact that The Warriors as a villain group pretty soundly reference "The Warrriors" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080120/" (Starring Michael Beck, who also played the male lead 'Sonny' in the "Xanadu" musical, opposite Olivia Newton John, and got really outshone by both her and Gene Kelly.)

 

In that movie (and the novel it's based on), the Warriors are made into patsies and spend a lot of time being victimized by other gangs, only barely surviving.

 

Does this sound familiar at all?

 

"Warriors, come out and play!" is taken directly from the movie.

 

I.E., the Warriors, as a villain group, were created to be used and abused by other villain groups. They are 'also rans' right up until they fade out of the story and are straight-up victimized in later arcs.

 

So updating them and giving lady Warriors a starring role should also take this into account, either by having the NPCs reject Odysseus's leadership, and/or struggling against the same victimization the current warriors do in a more cathartic, less pathetic way. I'd love to see a lady Warrior leader say 'No. We're not going to be victims of the Freaks, Circle, or Family any longer. We're not going to play their games. We're not going to be their lackeys. We're certainly not going to die for them.'

 

There's a freakin' ton that can be done with this, even giving the warriors a 'Rogue' villain-group status, kinda like Wyvern is a 'Vigilante' hero-group.

[Take One]

6 hours ago, mechahamham said:

One thing I haven't seen in this thread yet is the fact that The Warriors as a villain group pretty soundly reference "The Warrriors" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080120/" (Starring Michael Beck, who also played the male lead 'Sonny' in the "Xanadu" musical, opposite Olivia Newton John, and got really outshone by both her and Gene Kelly.)

 

It's the second post in the thread.

 

Edit: I also find your accusations mildly insulting, since it implies that we didn't recognize this reference the first time we saw The Warriors in Talos Island back in 200X.

Edited March 2, 2021 by Take One

[mechahamham]

6 hours ago, Take One said:

 

It's the second post in the thread.

 

Edit: I also find your accusations mildly insulting, since it implies that we didn't recognize this reference the first time we saw The Warriors in Talos Island back in 200X.

Huh. My apologies then. I didn't realize it was already pointed out. I thought I scanned every post in the thread for it and didn't see any references to the movie or book. Hmm... Looking back, I see that the second post in the thread is a video which my adblocker caught, which was probably it.

 

No insult was intended. I was genuinely trying to be helpful and creative and to help tie the story back to the original references.

 

Please don't look for insults where people are trying to be helpful.

 

[Take One]

 

18 minutes ago, mechahamham said:

Please don't look for insults where people are trying to be helpful.

 

All right, an easy mistake to make with the adblocker. I apologize as well.

[TemporalVileTerror]

I was letting some folks on Everlasting know about @Piecemeal's teaser in this thread and discussing the slight concerns expressed about the teased character's face looking a smidge more "cartoony" than most other faces already in the game, so I came back here to take a second look . . . and I just noticed something else . . . 

 

That's Kallisti Wharf in the background, isn't it?

[Sakura Tenshi]

Two (unfortunate) things to consider with a revamp to the warriors to make them interesting is that Greeks did not popularly use too many weapons (Javlins, slings, spears, shields, and swords.) and that this game is not really that great to represent nuanced fighting styles, nevermind our inability to have new animations. Made blander because the warriors use three weapons that share the exact same animations.

[Jaguaratron]

On 2/17/2021 at 7:28 PM, Piecemeal said:

So without making any promises, this is where my mind is going.

 

1) Warriors need an aesthetic tweak to be less... bland.

2) Warriors have a good toolkit but most of that is in highly resisted smash/lethal and so they tend to hit soft and fall hard in the late game, but quite the opposite in the early game.

3) Warriors need gender diversification.

4) If Warriors were to be expanded and staying in theme, I'd be looking at their thematic weaponry, and enchanting. These would result in potential leadership buffs or something more exciting.

5) WITHOUT a civil war, an intrepid member could offshoot as a charismatic leader of relic users.

 

Here's an idea of something that might exist, should it be determined it should:

 

(She's already had the shine removed from her shoulders.)

 

At most, this one I'd see with some runic enchantments on her helm and shoulders.

 

 

The Warriors attire and design was a tongue in cheek homage to the 1979 film "The Warriors", it would be a real shame for this genuinely developer chosen aesthetic to be turned into generic outlandish "superhero" fare, not everything is tights and spandex, you dont seem to know where their "theme" is from.

 

Im all for expansion, Im all for updating but I believe it should be updating existing models and textures as opposed to hotch potching various costume items onto pre existing factions, you have the keys, build your own legacy over butchering others.

[Piecemeal]

21 minutes ago, Jaguaratron said:

 

The Warriors attire and design was a tongue in cheek homage to the 1979 film "The Warriors", it would be a real shame for this genuinely developer chosen aesthetic to be turned into generic outlandish "superhero" fare, not everything is tights and spandex, you dont seem to know where their "theme" is from.

 

Im all for expansion, Im all for updating but I believe it should be updating existing models and textures as opposed to hotch potching various costume items onto pre existing factions, you have the keys, build your own legacy over butchering others.

It wasn't anything definitive, I threw some things together to see what could be done and borrowed some inspiration from Warrior Earth and their current costumes.

A revamp will follow a good deal of the Greek theme. Tranquilo, my good sir, this will be vetted in beta long before something like that becomes mainstream.

Greek theme aside, the real theme they're treading on now is "pinnacles of human perfection, top-tier artifact smugglers, and brutal martial fighters". Design concepts to revamp are going to be around that.

 

The amount of time needed for the custom art assets are pretty consuming, and the Freaklok assets are deep in that direction. For a what-if like you quoted, I can't give that much time. So don't take that as my genuine desire for their aesthetic, because it ain't. 😄

[Galaxy Brain]

Can we get lost converts to the Warriors who are Spartans who use sewer caps as shields?

[Piecemeal]

8 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Can we get lost converts to the Warriors who are Spartans who use sewer caps as shields?

No!

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, Piecemeal said:

No!

But I want to be shield charged by a homeless, mutated, Lost Warrior!

 

[Piecemeal]

3 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

But I want to be shield charged by a homeless, mutated, Lost Warrior!

 

I'm drafting a more comprehensive set of changes for the future. Lost warriors in the Freaklok makes slightly more sense. 😄

[DougGraves]

We all know what the players really want in a Greek warrior themed group: oiled, muscled men in red speedos with helms and shields.

[Rishidian]

3 hours ago, Piecemeal said:

I'm drafting a more comprehensive set of changes for the future. Lost warriors in the Freaklok makes slightly more sense. 😄

It's supposed to make sense?

 

Whooda thunk...