Thoughts on a recharge speed inspiration?

[BLVD]

I've always wondered why we have an inspiration for every major stat in the game with the exception of recharge speed. Was this decision made so that players couldn't have everything buffed from inspirations? I don't think it would be unbalanced, considering we can get to damage bonus cap from reds or even get level shifted. I think it would allow for a wider variety of builds, as most recharge set bonuses require 5 or 6 slots and defense powers are often taken just to mule LoTG 7.5%'s.

Edited February 22, 2021 by tan702

[EmperorSteele]

I always wondered that, too. It'd be nice, that's for sure! Still, I assume there's a reason or three that the Live devs never implimented it. It's hard to imagine no one thought of it before.

[Dahkness]

There's the chance for +recharge IO. I feel that's good enough for me.

[Shenanigunner]

Hmm. Some balance issues but +1 here.

 

Could be used to bypass long cool down and blow DPS through the roof... not necessarily a good thing. I'd rather see it structured as a quick, but limited, alternative... sort of Rest for recharge.

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Shenanigunner

[dangeraaron10]

I feel like a recharge inspiration would need to come packaged with a recharge cap of some sort.  I think they'd be great if someone could focus on other things in a build but meet recharge requirements by shovelling in recharge insps but as it stands now you'd just have max rech builds get even more rech to do even more DPS.

[Glacier Peak]

I'm of the opinion that since every other cap can be reached via inspiration, albeit temporarily, recharge could be looked at as well. Inspiration flavors haven't changed much since initial development aside from increasing their effectiveness and adding team flavors. Ultimate and breakfrees were added most recently I believe. Either way it's worth a look, assuming it hasn't already been checked out. 

[Doc_Scorpion]

Needs some balance testing and probably some fencing (caps? short time of effectiveness?) to prevent exploits...  But I can see where it could be useful.

[Shenanigunner]

Delayed activation (say, 10 seconds), and no stacking?

[Greycat]

Can use one per day.

[Shenanigunner]

5 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Can use one per day.

 

That might be a little limiting, for an Insp at least. For maybe a P2W power or the like, yeah.

 

Maybe one every 30 minutes, with that activation delay, and it remains "active" in the buff bar until the timer counts down.

[Replacement]

I like the idea of a minor-moderate recharge buff as well as a +move speed buff.  Just an all around celerity inspiration.

 

I realize it would probably be (too) cumbersome, but I would love some mid-mission inspiration "recipe" options in the right-click menu for adding new inspirations.  ex: Combine break free and accuracy of same tier to build a +speed insp.  This lets you avoid adding the new inspiration to the drop pool and increase the relative "cost" of them, which seems like a good way to ease it into the game.

[BLVD]

4 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

Delayed activation (say, 10 seconds), and no stacking?

I'm curious, why would we want to limit usage of this? I was thinking players could be free to run around with a stack of recharge inspirations the same way many players do with purples and blues. And you'd have a pool of 7.5%, 18.75%, and 37.5% inspirations like there is with yellows. I guess I'm just really wondering if recharge is really that much more valuable than all of the other stats?  

[Doc_Scorpion]

12 minutes ago, tan702 said:

I'm curious, why would we want to limit usage of this? I was thinking players could be free to run around with a stack of recharge inspirations the same way many players do with purples and blues. And you'd have a pool of 7.5%, 18.75%, and 37.5% inspirations like there is with yellows. I guess I'm just really wondering if recharge is really that much more valuable than all of the other stats?  

In some ways it is...  There's three main limits on how often you can use a given power:  endurance, cooldown, and animation time.  Adding a recharge inspiration means you can now shortcut two of those three limits.

And actually, it's even worse than that.  The only effective limit on a number of significant powers (such as Domination, or Accelerate Metabolism in the /rad set) is cooldown.  There's a reason why folks try to shoehorn in as much global recharge into builds as they possibly can (on top of recharge in individual powers).

[twozerofoxtrot]

I see people farming threads.

 

Just to go to Luna in Ouro.

 

To fill their tray with nothing but Super Recharge Insps.

 

.... I would be one of them.

 

_{So I can't decide if I'm for or against this.}

[Shenanigunner]

1 hour ago, tan702 said:

I'm curious, why would we want to limit usage of this? I was thinking players could be free to run around with a stack of recharge inspirations the same way many players do with purples and blues. And you'd have a pool of 7.5%, 18.75%, and 37.5% inspirations like there is with yellows. I guess I'm just really wondering if recharge is really that much more valuable than all of the other stats?  

 

I (and others) just have the feelilng that unlimited recharge boosts would be a game breaker. It isn't like reds or purples; it fundamentally changes a key element of the game strategy that has to be managed, and bypasses power limits for what could be insane DPS.

 

I object on the same grounds as all other "take away all these crap limitations so I can power through TFs to 50" wishes.

[Troo]

I love fake posts! Do another!!

[golstat2003]

On 2/22/2021 at 10:32 AM, EmperorSteele said:

I always wondered that, too. It'd be nice, that's for sure! Still, I assume there's a reason or three that the Live devs never implimented it. It's hard to imagine no one thought of it before.

I'm  . . . actually quite ashamed to say I've never even thought anyone would want that. I once thought of posting it as a suggestion, and was like "nahhhh" nobody would be interested in that. Just goes to show that even if it's a bad suggestion in your head, you never know until you post it! lol

[Replacement]

12 hours ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

I (and others) just have the feelilng that unlimited recharge boosts would be a game breaker. It isn't like reds or purples; it fundamentally changes a key element of the game strategy that has to be managed, and bypasses power limits for what could be insane DPS.

 

I object on the same grounds as all other "take away all these crap limitations so I can power through TFs to 50" wishes.

See, I have a completely different reaction to this same information - I like the idea because it alleviates some build needs for Recharge on a per instance basis.  I don't see this dumbing down difficulty so much as further diversifying what stats we can focus on, and in what order.

 

When I read this bit about changing game strategy or bypassing power limits, I think: what are two stats that stop being such a big deal once you're well-enhanced? Accuracy and Endurance. 

 

I would argue these 2 stats would be a much bigger deal without matching inspirations. People would say "well yes, you have 95% hit chance in this build, but what about vs Rikti Drones?"

They would say "I don't have endurance problems, but about 1-2 times per Freakshow mission, I have to stop the killing and recover end."  Instead, we don't talk about it and don't even really consider Freakshow to be Sappers because when you get to this point in the middle of your career, you can just pop a small blue once per mission and it's not even worth discussing.

 

I feel like a +recharge insp would be similar to a break free -- some will hoard and rely on them, some will just ensure they always have one on hand, and many will be take-it-or-leave-it (high end melee builds with perfect attack chains being the big one). I don't see that as any different or more harmful.

 

There's also a lot of balancing levers. It doesn't need the same amounts as an Uncanny Insight. Or it could have a low duration (break free sets the precedent), or as I mentioned before, you could dilute the power budget with +move speeds.  I personally like the idea of it being very potent and short-lived, like 5-10 second duration. This would intentionally make it run afoul of +Recharge caps.

 

I truly believe any time you find yourself thinking "No, because it might be bad," the better thing to do is pivot to "put it on the test server, and I will try to prove it's bad."

Edited February 24, 2021 by Replacement

[Rathulfr]

22 hours ago, dangeraaron10 said:

I feel like a recharge inspiration would need to come packaged with a recharge cap of some sort. 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Limits#Recharge_Rate

[Shenanigunner]

18 minutes ago, Replacement said:

See, I have a completely different reaction to this same information - I like the idea because it alleviates some build needs for Recharge on a per instance basis.  I don't see this dumbing down difficulty so much as further diversifying what stats we can focus on, and in what order.

 

(1) Have to build a character power by power and slot by slot, balancing the enhancement choices to include recharge on a selective basis to get an alt to a state where it has the desired balance of power, acc, recharge etc.

 

(2) Be able to cross the need for recharge off the list even though you choose power sets and powers that trade power/effectiveness for management of selective use and significant recharge times, and thus slot for even more dam/acc/power instead.

 

Nope, no difference in the world.

[Rathulfr]

Is this the backdoor "nerf Hasten" thread?  😜

If so, I'm onboard with that.  😉

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Rathulfr
typos

[arcane]

15 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Limits#Recharge_Rate

Yeah assuming this cap is effective I think this suggestion would be fine. +400% isn’t much higher than players are already with IO’s, hasten, FF procs, etc. As long as the individual inspiration value is small I see no real issue. They’ve already made some powers impossible to perma (T9’s) with the current cap.

[Replacement]

9 minutes ago, Shenanigunner said:

 

(1) Have to build a character power by power and slot by slot, balancing the enhancement choices to include recharge on a selective basis to get an alt to a state where it has the desired balance of power, acc, recharge etc.

 

(2) Be able to cross the need for recharge off the list even though you choose power sets and powers that trade power/effectiveness for management of selective use and significant recharge times, and thus slot for even more dam/acc/power instead.

 

Nope, no difference in the world.

I literally do not see the difference you're trying to highlight. 

 

For starters: I'm trying to have a conversation here, so maybe aim for discussion instead of sarcasm?  Unless you are agreeing with me in a strange vernacular, there is nothing logical presented here. You seem to be saying "it's ok to build for recharge and get your [other missing stats] elsewhere, but it's unacceptable to build for [other stats] and get your recharge elsewhere." I repeat: I do not see the difference.

 

Second, you seem to think players have infinite inspirations? Are we really going to balance around someone emailing themselves 400 of these every time they're online? Is this somehow different from buying the p2w Amp powers?

[Rejolt]

1. If we nerf hasten I want defense (Combat jumping level) added back to it and a small amount of recharge debuff resistance.

2. Base-crafted Attack Rate increase is already great if you want a boost.

3. I'm more for a power boost inspiration (20, 33 and 50 percent for t1/2/3) and the effect doesn't stack.

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Replacement said:

I truly believe any time you find yourself thinking "No, because it might be bad," the better thing to do is pivot to "put it on the test server, and I will try to prove it's bad."

Creating and coding for the test server takes a non-trivial amount of effort.  Pondering the effects and alternatives beforehand takes much less effort.  (And filters out a lot of bad and questionable ideas.)  There's a reason why best engineering practice is "analyze, then build a prototype".

That's particularly important in cases such as this were the limited number of people on beta can prove the mechanical function of inspiration, but cannot effectively test the large scale changes to the meta that would invariably accompany publishing to the live game.  For the latter, we must rely on thought experiments and the informed judgement of experienced players - AKA, this thread.