Focused Feedback: Travel Power Updates (Build 1)

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

Each power is at its cap during testing.

 

So would these powers not at their cap exceed 2 minutes?

 

-----------------------

 

I think there is a expectation that if travel powers are improved in such a sweeping fashion, that fly would catch up a bit.

Fly with another power would catch up a bit more.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Troo

[Glacier Peak]

7 minutes ago, Troo said:

So would these powers not at their cap exceed 2 minutes?

Fly was at its speed cap and Fly with Afterburner was at its speed cap. There were separate entries in the table for both. Is that what you are asking?

 

Edit: I think I get what you were asking - I created three courses to illustrate routes that were outside the normal routines of players. They were meant to display outliers/extremes, meaning they are as far apart as feasible to show how even at extreme distance, it doesn't take very long to get there with the new speed caps.

 

As you pointed out, I said two minutes to travel anywhere, otherwise prove me wrong - so if you are asking to tailor your methodology to test, I would ask for proof that it takes longer than two minutes to travel to any mission objective or place of interest given all options on the table (in addition to the speed capped travel powers).

Edited March 17, 2021 by Glacier Peak
clarification hopefully

[Troo]

41 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Fly was at its speed cap and Fly with Afterburner was at its speed cap. There were separate entries in the table for both. Is that what you are asking?

I was asking if the travel powers were NOT at the cap would they exceed 2:00. (similar to actual in-game much of the time)

 

"players can get to anywhere in such a short amount of time that it doesn’t require more than two minutes to go from one place in the game, to anywhere else"

 

The numbers you posted are great at showing what is possible and comparing the big three.

I am simply pointing out not everyone is going to be at the cap and might take them a wee bit longer to get from place to place.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Troo

[arthurh35353]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

As an aside, during this testing I discovered that if you fly to the bottom of the map in Peregrine Island, it teleports you to the top of the northern islands in Talos Island, I had no idea it did that! Is that even intentional?

Yes, actually. The Ferry is not the only way to travel to PI. You can swim in and out if you want.

[arthurh35353]

Speedo test!

 

Flight + swift, 1 slot in each. 2.2 miles (in Talos) 1m 46s

Flight + swift + AB (only remembered to use it once, but that's actually likely to happen in real life) 1m 40s

 

Teleport (with some range global bonuses and slotted a little better). 1 minute going to 2.2 miles.

 

SS+SJ = 1m 20s to go about 2.2ish miles. Got caught in some bushes, but that's the vagaries of SS for you.

 

 

[macskull]

6 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

Speedo test!

 

Flight + swift, 1 slot in each. 2.2 miles (in Talos) 1m 46s

Flight + swift + AB (only remembered to use it once, but that's actually likely to happen in real life) 1m 40s

 

Teleport (with some range global bonuses and slotted a little better). 1 minute going to 2.2 miles.

 

SS+SJ = 1m 20s to go about 2.2ish miles. Got caught in some bushes, but that's the vagaries of SS for you.

That seems reasonable. Remembering to activate Afterburner a second time would have probably shaved another few seconds off.

 

For context, that's 20 seconds of difference over 2.2 miles, which is a distance you're unlikely to need to travel in one go outside of the Shadow Shard zones - and those zones are a nightmare for anyone who doesn't have a form of flight.

[Bopper]

8 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

Speedo test!

 

Flight + swift, 1 slot in each. 2.2 miles (in Talos) 1m 46s

Flight + swift + AB (only remembered to use it once, but that's actually likely to happen in real life) 1m 40s

 

Teleport (with some range global bonuses and slotted a little better). 1 minute going to 2.2 miles.

 

SS+SJ = 1m 20s to go about 2.2ish miles. Got caught in some bushes, but that's the vagaries of SS for you.

 

 

Excellent testing. Can you provide us more details on what your fly/jump/run speed numbers were? I'm not sure what speeds you were reaching with 1 slot investment (SO, IO, IO+5, etc)

[arthurh35353]

1 minute ago, macskull said:

For context, that's 20 seconds of difference over 2.2 miles, which is a distance you're unlikely to need to travel in one go outside of the Shadow Shard zones - and those zones are a nightmare for anyone who doesn't have a form of flight.

No, it was in fact about 45 seconds difference going from slowest (Fly + Swift +AB) to Teleport that was heavily slotted.

 

So almost twice as fast.

1 minute ago, Bopper said:

Excellent testing. Can you provide us more details on what your fly/jump/run speed numbers were? I'm not sure what speeds you were reaching with 1 slot investment (SO, IO, IO+5, etc)

I did not reach the speed cap (I think 76mph for just flight) and SJ+SS (swift/hurdle) was only 111mph. I know I could hit the caps with Flight+AB (old) but it appears I'll have to get at least one more slot for that.

 

I respecced the superspeeder to 50 IOs.

[macskull]

One other thing to point out re: number is sure, you can say "speed and leaping got even higher caps all the time and fly is stuck with a lower cap some of the time" but it's important to remember speed and leaping very rarely let you take full advantage of those superior numbers. With flight I can pick pretty much any two points and make a straight line between them, but in most cases that isn't possible with the other options.

[macskull]

Just now, arthurh35353 said:

No, it was in fact about 45 seconds difference going from slowest (Fly + Swift +AB) to Teleport that was heavily slotted.

Sorry, I left out teleport from my post. Almost no one has been focusing on teleport in this thread because teleport is already theoretically the fastest way to get around but it requires a lot more to actually get there and you can't maintain it indefinitely, especially at lower levels where you lack enough recovery and endurance reduction.

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, arthurh35353 said:

No, it was in fact about 45 seconds difference going from slowest (Fly + Swift +AB) to Teleport that was heavily slotted.

 

So almost twice as fast.

I did not reach the speed cap (I think 76mph for just flight) and SJ+SS (swift/hurdle) was only 111mph. I know I could hit the caps with Flight+AB (old) but it appears I'll have to get at least one more slot for that.

 

I respecced the superspeeder to 50 IOs.

If you take evasive maneuvers, you can use it to hit caps without slotting. Might be an easy check for you. 111mph sounds right for run speed, I'll look at my spreadsheets as I can probably estimate your jump speed from it. Thanks again for testing it

[arthurh35353]

2 minutes ago, macskull said:

Sorry, I left out teleport from my post. Almost no one has been focusing on teleport in this thread because teleport is already theoretically the fastest way to get around but it requires a lot more to actually get there and you can't maintain it indefinitely, especially at lower levels where you lack enough recovery and endurance reduction.

It is a pretty important point. If the teleporter is going to be getting there 15-20 seconds faster on just a quick 2 mile trip and they are going to be waiting for the flyers for another 20-25 seconds.

 

I specifically did not pick EM as it is not actually a travel power. I probably won't ever pick it as it seems geared towards PVP bonuses. I had picked Afterburner before because it was specifically to go faster. Faster is just something EM does on top of its protections and flight control.

[Wavicle]

Just now, arthurh35353 said:

It is a pretty important point. If the teleporter is going to be getting there 15-20 seconds faster on just a quick 2 mile trip and they are going to be waiting for the flyers for another 20-25 seconds.

 

I specifically did not pick EM as it is not actually a travel power. I probably won't ever pick it as it seems geared towards PVP bonuses. I had picked Afterburner before because it was specifically to go faster. Faster is just something EM does on top of its protections and flight control.

Except in practice we rarely have to travel such distances.

[arthurh35353]

1 minute ago, Wavicle said:

Except in practice we rarely have to travel such distances.

I wish Citadel would remember that.

[Galaxy Brain]

39 minutes ago, Troo said:

I was asking if the travel powers were NOT at the cap would they exceed 2:00. (similar to actual in-game much of the time)

 

"players can get to anywhere in such a short amount of time that it doesn’t require more than two minutes to go from one place in the game, to anywhere else"

 

The numbers you posted are great at showing what is possible and comparing the big three.

I am simply pointing out not everyone is going to be at the cap and might take them a wee bit longer to get from place to place.

 

I know where you're getting at Troo, but I think its a perspective thing.

 

Nabbing this from the OP:

 

 

Lets whip up a new character on Beta:

 

 

As-is, these are my speeds.

 

Lets turn sprint on:

 

 

Super Speed by itself:

 

 

 

 

Now, super speed + sprint:

 

 

 

Super Speed + Sprint with a single SO in Swift:

 

 

 

Not much difference, but hey its something. I would reckon many people would slap a single speed SO into SS as well:

 

 

Not too shabby since the current live cap is 92.5mph. With bare minimal investment, we are solid 10% faster than the cap you need lots of investment on live for!

 

 

 

With 2 SO's in super speed, you are so dang close to the cap it's silly. Slapping a run speed in sprint (or 3 slotting SS) will totally cap you out now. Just to be sure, I was able to cap with only 3 SO's in SS + toggling sprint (no slots) , removing the SO from swift:

 

 

 

If we wanna go even further down the rabbit hole:

 

3 slotted swift only:

 

 

 

3 slotted sprint + 3 slotted swift:

 

 

 

 

But anyways, as for those travel times we can do some guestimation thanks to good old math thanks to @Glacier Peak:

 

Power/Course	Peregrine Island (2.72 miles)	Nerva Archipelago (1.96 miles)
Super Speed	1 minute, 22 seconds	59 seconds

 

(I cut Grandville as it is not as easy to map the distance vs speed)

 

Speed = Distance / Time, so :

 

PI = 2.72 / 01:22 = 119.41 mph avg (being under the cap here could be a matter of feet. If I calculate the reverse of 120.24mph * 82s = 2.74miles)

 

Luckily, we can solve for time by doing Distance/Speed. With my numbers above, we can easily plug it in:

 

19.33 base = 8:27  (16% the speed)

33.65 sprint = 4:27 (31%)

45.21 swift sprint = 3:37 (38%)

69.44 Super Speed alone no slots = 2:21 (58%)

83.76 Super Speed Sprint = 1:57 (70%)

102.13 minimal investment = 1:36 (85%)

 

 

NA = 1.96 / 00:59 = 119.59 mph avg

 

19.33 base = 6:05  (16% the speed)

33.65 sprint = 3:30 (28%)

45.21 swift sprint = 2:36 (38%)

69.44 Super Speed alone no slots = 1:42 (58%)

83.76 Super Speed Sprint = 1:24 (70%)

102.13 minimal investment = 1:09 (86%)

 

 

 

 

So to answer the question, it very much depends on the task but even the longest distance is sub-2:00 with SS + Sprint and 0 enhancements.

[arthurh35353]

Hmm. Speaking of Swift and Hurdle, they are one of the things that allows Flight, Speed and Jump to actually catch up a bit to Teleport. It would be nice if Hudle could actually take a range bonus or something so that it got the same perk as the other three travel powers.

 

And hey, it would give a little benny to the range ATs.

[macskull]

3 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

I wish Citadel would remember that.

The vast majority of that TF is in Independence Port or Talos Island, with a few missions in Skyway. IP and Skyway are easy enough since there are trains in both the north and south ends of the zone so you should pretty much never end up with 2+ miles of travel unless the two missions were in exact opposite corners of the zone (this does not happen). Talos can sometimes have missions at similar distances and doesn't have multiple train stations but a quick Ouro or SG base trip puts you right back in the middle of the zone in the event all of the various "teleport to mission door" powers you have are on cooldown.

 

TL;DR: travel at those extreme distances is very rare and the time differences over shorter distances is not significant, and despite its theoretical speed teleport is too clunky for even most powergamers to bother with.

[arthurh35353]

1 minute ago, macskull said:

TL;DR: travel at those extreme distances is very rare and the time differences over shorter distances is not significant, and despite its theoretical speed teleport is too clunky for even most powergamers to bother with.

You do realize people like teleport and not just because it's fast, but because they've been using it since the first TP binds came out and enjoyed the way it goes.

 

The fact, there are lots of people that use TP and more are finding it fun with some of the updates. So it actually can make that big of a difference. Dismissing it because it's not what powergarmers use is... odd.

[Starforge]

I would note he said "most" and not "all".

[arthurh35353]

3 minutes ago, Starforge said:

I would note he said "most" and not "all".

He dismissed it because he didn't find it important and without it the disparity doesn't seem as bad. But you have to consider it compared to all the travel powers.

[macskull]

1 minute ago, Starforge said:

I would note he said "most" and not "all".

Eh it's more an anecdotal thing. On the flip side, considering how much hype Combat Teleport got when it showed up in the last update I'd have expected to see more people use it but I'm pretty sure I've only seen a few. While I don't have access to the same metrics the devs do, I'd bet a billion inf they'd show Teleportation to be the least-used travel pool.

[Starforge]

2 minutes ago, macskull said:

While I don't have access to the same metrics the devs do, I'd bet a billion inf they'd show Teleportation to be the least-used travel pool.

That honestly wouldn’t surprise me if it was the least-used.

[ninja surprise]

Getting back to real Focused Feedback:  On Beta, it appears that being held detoggles Hover and Evasive Maneuvers. 

I'm on a Beast/Kin MM on a Council map and when the Vamps hold me, those two turned off. Trying to do more testing.

 

Otherwise I enjoy the new Hover, Flight and EM.

 

Super Speed is amazing, although it seems random when Momentum builds up. Maybe it's because I'll do a bunch of little jumps while running through a zone to get over fences, bushes, etc. I wish Speed Phase worked for those obstacles! So I might be spending Momentum on little jumps and don't see it build up for a big jump.

Speed Phase is fun and it's great not having to worry about half the obstacles in the map.

 

[arthurh35353]

3 minutes ago, ninja surprise said:

Super Speed is amazing, although it seems random when Momentum builds up. Maybe it's because I'll do a bunch of little jumps while running through a zone to get over fences, bushes, etc. I wish Speed Phase worked for those obstacles! So I might be spending Momentum on little jumps and don't see it build up for a big jump.

Speed Phase is fun and it's great not having to worry about half the obstacles in the map.

This does seem to be a problem for me too. I couldn't tell when momentum was up. I just kind of had to hope it had been 4ish seconds. There needs to be a pretty significant sound/flash or something so you can tell it's ready.

[ninja surprise]

8 minutes ago, ninja surprise said:

Getting back to real Focused Feedback:  On Beta, it appears that being held detoggles Hover and Evasive Maneuvers. 

 

I'm fighting Carnies now and not getting detoggled while held. 

But I had an oddity where I had Fly and Hover active, turned off Hover, and Hover did a 60 second cooldown. Haven't been able to repeat it though.