New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

[golstat2003]

5 hours ago, Leogunner said:

You're too laser focused on the OP then and not my post.

 

I'm not only suggesting a notoriety setting that removes set bonuses but rather enemies who have the ability of sealing your set bonuses as an effect of their powers.  Such a unique debuff could be placeable *using* a notoriety setting for those that would rather avoid it.  In which case, that would be your opponent coming into a game with a different opening play or strategy that you then need to adapt.

 

As notoriety option would be intriguing. I'd use it once in a while just to see which of the set bonuses would be removed from my character randomly from time to time. 🙂 

[Blackfeather]

30 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

As notoriety option would be intriguing. I'd use it once in a while just to see which of the set bonuses would be removed from my character randomly from time to time. 🙂 

 

I'd personally see such a suggestion as more fitting for Incarnate enemies that suppress Incarnate powers for a time rather than set bonuses myself - endgame mechanics as opposed to a Notoriety option.

[Blackfeather]

Hey there @Oubliette_Red! Saw your post here:

Wondered if you had any thoughts on this proposal given this! Something you might like? Any modifications? Would love to hear 'em. 😄

[Blackfeather]

9 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I think that adding these Notoriety Options, in addition to the ones that we already have, is certainly something that the developers should consider.

1) No set IO bonuses.

2) No set IO bonuses and no procs/special bonuses.

3) No enhancements at all.

 

I wouldn't use any of these options, but the people who want to would be welcome to and it wouldn't affect me at all.

 

Oh, have you taken a look at @Normal Thomas's proposal for different Notoriety options?

 

 

I think it was a pretty neat spectrum - I wouldn't go no enhancements at all myself though: missing is not fun.

[Oubliette_Red]

9 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

Hey there @Oubliette_Red! Saw your post here:

Wondered if you had any thoughts on this proposal given this! Something you might like? Any modifications? Would love to hear 'em. 😄

 

I expect that these requests come from players that have spent countless hours and millions to billions on Enh to eek out every fraction of Def/Dam/etc they possibly can which leaves the majority of the game feeling rather underwhelming when they can roll through on max +/x.

 

I honestly don't know what percentage of the players kite out their builds versus those of us that don't even bother with Mids and just slot what seems to be the best option. Personally, I just like playing and spending hours in Mids tweeking numbers seems like too much work.

 

But I think that being able to provide greater challenges to power players without extensive revamps of game mechanics or creating more end game content, using the Ouro 'challenge settings' mechanics would be the simplisst option.

 

Ouro challenge settings:

• Time Limits - Allow time limit selections for missions/arcs, 15m/30m/1hr/etc.
• Limited Lives - No deaths, one death, etc.
• Power Challenges
  • Players are DeBuffed
  • Enemies are Buffed
  • AT Powers only
  • No Travel Powers
  • No Temp Powers
  • No Epic/Patron Powers
  • No Inspirations
  • No Enhancements

 

Currently not something in that game but would be a nice addition:

• No Enhancement Bonuses (Not currently a thing but I think it's something that should be a thing.
• Spawn Void Hunters/Nictus/Crystals (Also not a thing but I've seen a lot of players requesting that they be put back. )

 

Players can select one, several, or all to their heart's content.

 

EDIT: Another thread reminded of Kheld kooties.

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Oubliette_Red

[Blackfeather]

4 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

I expect that these requests come from players that have spent countless hours and millions to billions on Enh to eek out every fraction of Def/Dam/etc they possibly can which leaves the majority of the game feeling rather underwhelming when they can roll through on max +/x.

 

I honestly don't know what percentage of the players kite out their builds versus those of us that don't even bother with Mids and just slot what seems to be the best option. Personally, I just like playing and spending hours in Mids tweeking numbers seems like too much work.

 

But I think that being able to provide greater challenges to power players without extensive revamps of game mechanics or creating more end game content, using the Ouro 'challenge settings' mechanics would be the simplisst option.

 

Ouro challenge settings:

• Time Limits - Allow time limit selections for missions/arcs, 15m/30m/1hr/etc.
• Limited Lives - No deaths, one death, etc.
• Power Challenges
  • Players are DeBuffed
  • Enemies are Buffed
  • AT Powers only
  • No Travel Powers
  • No Temp Powers
  • No Epic/Patron Powers
  • No Inspirations
  • No Enhancements

 

Currently not something in that game but would be a nice addition:

• No Enhancement Bonuses (Not currently a thing but I think it's something that should be a thing.
• Spawn Void Hunters/Nictus/Crystals (Also not a thing but I've seen a lot of players requesting that they be put back. )

 

Players can select one, several, or all to their heart's content.

 

EDIT: Another thread reminded of Kheld kooties.

 

 

Thanks for posting this up, it's an interesting read! Additional Notoriety options along with the one proposed here definitely wouldn't be objected to, though I'm not sure how many of those Flashback options could be feasibly ported over to single instanced missions (e.g. time limits/lives).

 

Not sure how much work would be involved with porting one system over into another part of the game would be, but that's ultimately up to the devs to determine rather than us - either way, it does look like we're both in agreement that difficulty settings are less effort as opposed to making more challenging content: the game in general's balanced around SOs as mentioned in my OP.

 

Thanks again for expanding upon this suggestion! 😄

[Blackfeather]

Hello @Giovanni Valia! Saw this post of yours here about additional difficulty options:

Given this, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on something like this if you've the time to read through the original post - apologies if it's a little long, I might have gotten a bit carried away! 😅

[esotericist]

@Voltak hey, uh, did you really need four posts in a row of lots of lines of text? there's a middle ground between that and text walls without line breaks, using a technique called "paragraphs". it could greatly improve both readability and communicability if you were to try to group your thoughts into related sets of sentences in that fashion.

 

also, you seem to be presuming an awful lot about the motives of other people, while also disregarding the positions they express. if someone wants to, sometimes, occasionally experience this kind of gameplay, having to either burn a build slot or make a character explicitly for it, is an excessive grade of investment for a "hey, it'd be cool if we could <x>, anyone else wanna?" kind of activity. i know a lot of people who would love to make use of this without having to go through the immense effort of putting together a build explicitly for it. i might even occasionally do so myself.

 

please consider the possibility that this is in fact a good faith effort on the behalf of the people asking for it, and not somehow a sinister attempt to impose their will on strangers through the use of an optional difficulty knob which can be just as punitive to a stranger as the already existing options. communication is obviously key for anything like this, as already has been acknowledged.

[Voltak]

4 hours ago, esotericist said:

@Voltak hey, uh, did you really need four posts in a row of lots of lines of text? there's a middle ground between that and text walls without line breaks, using a technique called "paragraphs". it could greatly improve both readability and communicability if you were to try to group your thoughts into related sets of sentences in that fashion.

 

also, you seem to be presuming an awful lot about the motives of other people, while also disregarding the positions they express. if someone wants to, sometimes, occasionally experience this kind of gameplay, having to either burn a build slot or make a character explicitly for it, is an excessive grade of investment for a "hey, it'd be cool if we could <x>, anyone else wanna?" kind of activity. i know a lot of people who would love to make use of this without having to go through the immense effort of putting together a build explicitly for it. i might even occasionally do so myself.

 

please consider the possibility that this is in fact a good faith effort on the behalf of the people asking for it, and not somehow a sinister attempt to impose their will on strangers through the use of an optional difficulty knob which can be just as punitive to a stranger as the already existing options. communication is obviously key for anything like this, as already has been acknowledged.

You get three builds for a character.  

You can easily fit a build with no IOs if you want.  

What I stated about intent I gathered from the post I was addressing 

I gathered that from some reasons expressed about the motives for wanting something like that. 

So I am not at all baseless in what I expressed

Really, you want to play with no IOs, you already can and you can do so without any work done by the Devs for you to do that. 

The intent to make others in your team be as gimp as you is something I won't support , and, again, I say that from the stuff been said already 

 

[Blackfeather]

Hey @Sarn! Saw your post about difficulty options over here:

Would be interested in hearing your thoughts about the introduction of this one, if you've the time! 😀

[Sarn]

1 hour ago, Blackfeather said:

Hey @Sarn! Saw your post about difficulty options over here:

Would be interested in hearing your thoughts about the introduction of this one, if you've the time! 😀

I'd be glad to do that, but I have not explored this beyond my experiments with my stone/granite tanker. I will say that the game is still perfectly capable of offering challenges for those that use this option. Finding people that are willing to do that might require coordination through a supergroup or such. I'm not sure that it is amenable to pickup, but I'm tempted to find out. It's not that I don't think I can find a suitable team, it's just that I'd have to find people willing to go through team wipes, I think. Again, not really sure, but I suspect that if my tanker in granite had difficulties, then others are going to be even more fragile. Finding the appropriate level and number of players to emulate, the full effect of temp powers and incarnates (for the highest level missions) is not something I can predict. 

[Alchemystic]

2 hours ago, Voltak said:

Really, you want to play with no IOs, you already can and you can do so without any work done by the Devs for you to do that. 

The intent to make others in your team be as gimp as you is something I won't support , and, again, I say that from the stuff been said already 

 

I think you're completely missing the point here.

 

This is a suggestion meant to open up new difficulty options. It is in no way forcing a strict playstyle on people that don't want it, it is just a means of providing greater utility to team leaders who want to run content with greater challenge. 

 

Yes, players can create builds that have no set bonuses, but expecting a whole team to do so requires a great deal of coordination beforehand. This simply provides a tool that temporarily restricts the use of set bonuses, thus allowing an easier alternative that can be disabled at any time.

 

It has no more control over your ability to play as you choose than it does presently with the current notoriety settings.

 

As for your argument that this would be more work for the devs... I don't see your point, this is a suggestions forum. If the devs didn't wish to undertake additional projects put forward by the players, this forum wouldn't exist.

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Tyrannical

[Blackfeather]

Going to give @DougGraves a ping - heyo! Seen you around the forums here and there, and thought this suggestion might be of interest to you given your posts on game balance/teaming and so on. Would be glad to hear your thoughts about this proposal, whether or not this might be something appealing to you and the like, or even if you've got some additions of your own! 😄

[DougGraves]

I like to play with no IO set bonuses.  The other IO effects are probably not as bad but clearly have a major impact on play as people design builds around procs, miracle and other bonus END abilities.

 

I frankly don't think that a notoriety option will be used.  When  I do TFs people do them at +0 with no challenges except maybe 60 min for a tf that takes 30 min.

 

I don't see people advertising teams with no IO set bonuses.

 

I think to make playing with no IO set bonuses really a thing it would need its own server so that like minded people could play there.  Of course it might only have a dozen people.

[Turric]

If enough people want this, then by all means! Options never hurt anyone.

 

Speaking for myself only, I would not utilize it and I would not want to be on teams that do. I also never utilize any of the conditions for task forces missions (timed, buffed, debuffed etc), but I would never complain that they exist. My instinct, judging by Indomitable only, would be that it would be very very rare to use. I also get bored and look through people's bio / build information to see who I am playing with. There are a ton of people who do not roll with any IO builds as it is. Perhaps this is by choice, but estimating by the number of people who do not know how to get places, I FEEL like there are lots of newer players these days who simply are learning the game. In this case, the forum boards can be a misrepresentation of the greater player base. But then again, I might be way off.

 

But if other people want to play this way, then have at thee, fiend!

[Blackfeather]

19 hours ago, Sarn said:

I'd be glad to do that, but I have not explored this beyond my experiments with my stone/granite tanker. I will say that the game is still perfectly capable of offering challenges for those that use this option. Finding people that are willing to do that might require coordination through a supergroup or such. I'm not sure that it is amenable to pickup, but I'm tempted to find out. It's not that I don't think I can find a suitable team, it's just that I'd have to find people willing to go through team wipes, I think. Again, not really sure, but I suspect that if my tanker in granite had difficulties, then others are going to be even more fragile. Finding the appropriate level and number of players to emulate, the full effect of temp powers and incarnates (for the highest level missions) is not something I can predict. 

 

Thanks for your thoughts on this proposal! Indeed - part of the reason why I thought this Notoriety option would be something neat was to make it easier for people to try out on a whim as opposed to having to slot a specific way, or organise things in advance: it'd just be a team and go kind of deal (so long as people are coming in knowing what settings are going to be used beforehand of course!).

 

At the very least, I do think it'd be worth implementing for people looking for more challenge in CoX without having to go and fight specific mobs or create a whole second build. And of course as mentioned before I do think it'd be a neat means of testing out new story arc content to make sure it's not too difficult (i.e. balanced around SOs) without having players go out of their way to slot accordingly - as someone that uses full-kitted IO builds, a Notoriety option would be much more convenient for sure. 🙂

[Haijinx]

13 hours ago, DougGraves said:

I like to play with no IO set bonuses.  The other IO effects are probably not as bad but clearly have a major impact on play as people design builds around procs, miracle and other bonus END abilities.

 

I frankly don't think that a notoriety option will be used.  When  I do TFs people do them at +0 with no challenges except maybe 60 min for a tf that takes 30 min.

 

I don't see people advertising teams with no IO set bonuses.

 

I think to make playing with no IO set bonuses really a thing it would need its own server so that like minded people could play there.  Of course it might only have a dozen people.

This probably applies to a lot of these ideas.  

 

I would probably prefer a hardmode server that used vastly adjusted mechanics myself.  IOs are one of the few things that allow you to tailor your character.  

 

How popular would it be?  Probably not very.  But Requiem for Skyrim does have some following, so perhaps there would be some.

[Sarn]

32 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

 

Thanks for your thoughts on this proposal! Indeed - part of the reason why I thought this Notoriety option would be something neat was to make it easier for people to try out on a whim as opposed to having to slot a specific way, or organise things in advance: it'd just be a team and go kind of deal (so long as people are coming in knowing what settings are going to be used beforehand of course!).

 

At the very least, I do think it'd be worth implementing for people looking for more challenge in CoX without having to go and fight specific mobs or create a whole second build. And of course as mentioned before I do think it'd be a neat means of testing out new story arc content to make sure it's not too difficult (i.e. balanced around SOs) without having players go out of their way to slot accordingly - as someone that uses full-kitted IO builds, a Notoriety option would be much more convenient for sure. 🙂

Thanks for commenting. I tried to get a group together for this last night on Excelsior. I got one response, one, while other groups were filling up easily. I think you are going to have to have some serious coordination, something like a supergroup event to even try this if you are interested. 

[Sarn]

14 hours ago, DougGraves said:

I like to play with no IO set bonuses.  The other IO effects are probably not as bad but clearly have a major impact on play as people design builds around procs, miracle and other bonus END abilities.

 

I frankly don't think that a notoriety option will be used.  When  I do TFs people do them at +0 with no challenges except maybe 60 min for a tf that takes 30 min.

 

I don't see people advertising teams with no IO set bonuses.

 

I think to make playing with no IO set bonuses really a thing it would need its own server so that like minded people could play there.  Of course it might only have a dozen people.

I advertised something similar last night, except it was the no enhancement bonus option (along with enemy buff, player debuff, no inspirations) for running Ouroboros missions. I got one response (and even that one said maybe another time when I explained it fully). I really would like to run a mission where powerset balance and complementation means something, but I think it is going to have to be a well-coordinated event, something like through a supergroup.  

Edited March 30, 2021 by Sarn
Completeness

[Blackfeather]

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

This probably applies to a lot of these ideas.  

 

I would probably prefer a hardmode server that used vastly adjusted mechanics myself.  IOs are one of the few things that allow you to tailor your character.  

 

How popular would it be?  Probably not very.  But Requiem for Skyrim does have some following, so perhaps there would be some.

 

Slightly off topic, but if you had the means, what kind of mechanics would that entail, out of curiosity?

[MsSmart]

Sweetie:

 

    Interesting points, but perhaps they are fallible...

 

    Game built on SOs. originally, but then the devs realized the game was broken and way to unbalanced, especially the support types had no way to survive and to them the die all the time, staus effect murdered all the time, got old and boring. As a result these classes began to experience less and less folks wanting to play them. Lets face it, we play this game, because we want to feel super, be the star! And not a wuss, who a minion can easily murder and is relegated to be a assistant to somebody else, and never a super in their own rights.

 

    The devs so this, and acknowledged it, and even said so in posting of their own, but they were stuck in a fixed infrastructure. So what they did, the created the IO system, to begin leveling the playing field. And the IOs went a very long way towards accomplishing it. But it was not enough, so enter the incarnate system in a last ditch attempt to level the playing field, and to a great extent they did.

 

     As the so many challenge oriented postings, I have come across, what is truly needed is to level the playing field with regards to what classes receive what challenge. Sadly most of the recommendations I keep seeing, continue to place a very, very  disproportionate effect on support while the melee suffers a minimal repercussion. 

 

    So let me throw some minor changes that can give melee the challenge, they truly need...

 

1) Replace 50% of the defense de-buff creatures with resistance de-buff creatures

2) Replace 50% of the creatures that are anti-fly, with anti-jump

3) Have Carnies, Rikti, and other upper level material groups' status effect ignore melee status protections, they can use clarion to avert their fate, or do as they say to support: use break frees.

4) It can be noted that IO sets have their first 3 are normally very much melee oriented, while the last 3 are support oriented. Why not take half of the IO sets and reverse the benefits, so the first 3 benefits the support (positional defense boosters for example) and the last 3 benefit melee (resist boosters)

 

    The last change, I will concede is extreme, but should be considered for future sets.

 

Hugs

 

Sue

4) 

 

    

[Blackfeather]

On 3/30/2021 at 10:37 AM, DougGraves said:

I like to play with no IO set bonuses.  The other IO effects are probably not as bad but clearly have a major impact on play as people design builds around procs, miracle and other bonus END abilities.

 

I frankly don't think that a notoriety option will be used.  When  I do TFs people do them at +0 with no challenges except maybe 60 min for a tf that takes 30 min.

 

I don't see people advertising teams with no IO set bonuses.

 

I think to make playing with no IO set bonuses really a thing it would need its own server so that like minded people could play there.  Of course it might only have a dozen people.

 

On a slightly different tangent, have you taken a look at @Galaxy Brain's recent testing over here?

 

 

I think it's pretty interesting seeing the impact that procs have on the game - and further suggests that this Notoriety option's a nice middle between an SO build and a full IO build, which was kind of the intent.

[Blackfeather]

On 3/30/2021 at 4:04 PM, Turric said:

If enough people want this, then by all means! Options never hurt anyone.

 

Speaking for myself only, I would not utilize it and I would not want to be on teams that do. I also never utilize any of the conditions for task forces missions (timed, buffed, debuffed etc), but I would never complain that they exist. My instinct, judging by Indomitable only, would be that it would be very very rare to use. I also get bored and look through people's bio / build information to see who I am playing with. There are a ton of people who do not roll with any IO builds as it is. Perhaps this is by choice, but estimating by the number of people who do not know how to get places, I FEEL like there are lots of newer players these days who simply are learning the game. In this case, the forum boards can be a misrepresentation of the greater player base. But then again, I might be way off.

 

But if other people want to play this way, then have at thee, fiend!

 

Hey there, thanks for dropping by! A big part of this proposal's definitely its opt-in nature, so as to not disrupt players who aren't interested in such a feature, while also making it as accessible as possible for those who do want something like this. From the posts through this thread, it does look like there'd at least be some people interested in giving it a shot, and for those who aren't, they're mostly happy with it just being an option.

 

As implied in my original post, I'm pretty heavy into IO builds myself, and I definitely enjoy the flexibility they introduce into the game as a result of them. But I can definitely empathise with the forum posters asking for further challenge in a game system that's primarily balanced around a much less potent gear system (i.e. SOs). So having an easy way to tune the difficulty of missions accordingly would be neat, I think.

 

Thanks again for your thoughts! 😄

[Blackfeather]

On 3/31/2021 at 1:04 AM, Sarn said:

I advertised something similar last night, except it was the no enhancement bonus option (along with enemy buff, player debuff, no inspirations) for running Ouroboros missions. I got one response (and even that one said maybe another time when I explained it fully). I really would like to run a mission where powerset balance and complementation means something, but I think it is going to have to be a well-coordinated event, something like through a supergroup.  

 

Hey there again, thanks for sharing some of your experiences!

 

I do think this is a nice reason as to why a Notoriety option would be ideal - I know I personally prefer regular pick-up groups as opposed to Flashback missions for convenience's sake. Add onto that the lack of enhancement bonuses, and it makes for a mission where missing is quite common (personally not my jam, and I imagine the same for a great deal of others).

 

That being said, how used such a feature would be is speculation on either side if it's yet to be implemented...though I'd say the benefits of it being used for easy story arc testing is a boon in of itself, and further options are always nice.

[Blackfeather]

Also going to ping @Coyotedancer on this topic - hello there! I've seen your posts around the forum, and was wondering if a proposal like this would be of any interest to you. Definitely would be happy to hear any thoughts you might have, if so! 😄