Focused Feedback: Travel Power Updates (FLIGHT POOL) - Build 4

[Arcanum]

This is a Focused Feedback Thread

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• The most up-to-date version of the changes will be listed in the first post.
• The changes in each build will be posted as replies.
  • Most changes from the previous beta build are listed in green.
    • Green text will become white text in the next set of patch notes.
  • Any changes or fixes that are only relevant to the beta builds (ie: fixes / tweaks to new features) are listed in blue.
    • Blue text will be deleted in the next set of patch notes as it is only relevant to highlight changes between beta builds, not a changes from live.
  • Known issues are listed in purple.

 

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Patch Notes for April 6th, 2021 - Issue 27: Second Chances, Page 2 (Build 4)
 

Pool: Flight

•  Hover
  • Added new customization themes that allows you to remove the Hover stance
    • Note that the Hover stance has a higher priority than the default fly stance, meaning it will always apply even if other flight powers are active unless it's been disabled in power customisation
•  Fly
  • Now increases your fly speed cap by 50% while toggled on (from 58.6mph to 87.9mph)
    • This increased cap is the equivalent of fully slotting the old version of Afterburner
      • You now get this for free, without picking two more powers, and without old Afterburner's Only Affect Self component
    • This means Fly speed buffs and enhancements actually matter, as you won't hit the new cap without them
    • This increased cap doesn't apply in PvP
  • Base flight speed has been increased slightly (by approx 2mph)
  •  Fly > Afterburner
    • Now built into Fly as a free secondary (server tray) power that doesn't require a power pick
      • If you already had Fly, you will now also have Afterburner for free
    • Now a timed toggle with a 30 second duration and a 60 second cooldown
    • Increases flight speed cap by a further 25% (to 102.27mph), and speeds you up to the cap
      • This allows Fly to match Super Jump's new speed cap for short bursts of time (it wouldn't be appropriate to have Fly match that speed permanently)
      • Note that the old speed cap that fully-slotted Afterburner previously allowed you to reach is now built into Fly for free, you don't need to use this new version of Afterburner to reach that speed
    • No longer applies Only Affect Self or any other effects - Evasive Maneuvers has inherited most of Afterburner's old defensive effects
    • Null the Gull will allow you to hide Afterburner's pop-up tray
    • Added a Minimal FX customisation theme
    • Summoning non-targetable pets (eg: Tornado) will now correctly suppress the defence
• Group Fly
  • This power now applies to all pets regardless of their distance from the caster
  • No longer inaccurately claims it applies -Acc
•  Evasive Maneuvers
  • Replaces the old version of Afterburner as Flight's tier 5 power
    • If you previously had Afterburner, you now have Evasive Maneuvers
    • Note that if you previously had Fly, you will now have the new version of Afterburner for free
  • Toggle with moderate endurance cost, aimed at providing you with excellent airborne combat mobility
    • Evasive Maneuvers is not intended as a travel power, it is a defensive combat mobility power
  • Whilst flying, this power provides:
    • Protection against -fly and immobilize, and some resistance to knockback
    • A small amount of flight speed
      • This flight speed is not affected by travel suppression, allowing you to remain mobile in combat
    • Good air control (the same level that Afterburner previously provided)
  • Also provides the same level of defense as old Afterburner while out of combat, but this is removed while in combat
    • This bonus is suppressed for 10s when entering combat (the same as Stealth's out-of-combat defence)
    • The defense bonuses will suppress if the user attacks, heals or buffs an ally, commands a pet, or interacts with a mission objective
  • Fixed issues with the fly buff being intermittent
  • Fixed this power having issues after zoning

 

 

Peacebringer

•  Energy Flight
  • Mirrored all i27, Page 2 changes for Fly
  •  Energy Flight > Quantum Acceleration
    • Now built into Energy Flight as a free secondary (server tray) power that doesn't require a power pick
    • Mirrored all i27, Page 2 changes for Afterburner
    • Note that Quantum Acceleration shares a cooldown with Afterburner
•  Combat Flight
  • Combat Flight's defensive buff is mutually exclusive with Hover's defensive buff
•  Quantum Flight
  • Endurance cost reduced from 2.6/s to 0.65/s
  • This puts the endurance cost in line with Phase Shift
•  Quantum Maneuvers
  • Replaces Quantum Acceleration as a picked power
    • If you previously had Quantum Acceleration, you now have Quantum Maneuvers
    • Note that you will also still have Quantum Acceleration as it's now built into Energy Flight
  • Mechanically identical to Evasive Maneuvers, but prettier
  • Note that Quantum Maneuvers cannot be active at the same time as Evasive Maneuvers

 

[Troo]

25 minutes ago, GM Arcanum said:

Base flight speed has been increased slightly (by approx 2mph)

 

Epic!!

[Sovera]

17 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

Epic!!

 

And the change to the rocket board and etc seems... pretty damn awesome? Am I correct in reading that EvM and Fly will work together with the rocket board and such? So we can use those travel powers as honest to god customization! Pity I can't have the disc power animation for Hover to fight on, sniff, but still, shweet!

 

When does SS get the motorcycle of the Thugs' bruiser??

 

😄

[Troo]

5 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Am I correct in reading that EvM and Fly will work together with the rocket board and such?

**Now applies Only Affecting Self

 

so.. sort of

[Captain Citadel]

Happy with these changes. The only other thing I'd like to have is a customization setting in the Tailor that tells Fly to override Hover's animation, but I'm guessing that's not possible because of whatever's in the code. I appreciate that we will have the option to remove Hover's "Magneto flight" animation, but I like having it on when I'm only using Hover. It suits the lower speed really well. I could keep toggling between the two as we currently do on Live, but I like having the extra flight control. I never missed it before because on Live I always have Afterburner toggled on outside of combat, so I've always got the flight control bonus from either AB or Hover.

[Blackbird71]

1 hour ago, GM Arcanum said:

 

Pool: Flight

 

• •  Fly > Afterburner
    • Now built into Fly as a free secondary (server tray) power that doesn't require a power pick
      • If you already had Fly, you will now also have Afterburner for free
    • Now a timed toggle with a 30 second duration and a 60 second cooldown
    • Increases flight speed cap by a further 25% (to 102.27mph), and speeds you up to the cap
      • This allows Fly to match Super Jump's new speed cap for short bursts of time (it wouldn't be appropriate to have Fly match that speed permanently)
      • Note that the old speed cap that fully-slotted Afterburner previously allowed you to reach is now built into Fly for free, you don't need to use this new version of Afterburner to reach that speed
    • No longer applies Only Affect Self or any other effects - Evasive Maneuvers has inherited most of Afterburner's old defensive effects
    • Null the Gull will allow you to hide Afterburner's pop-up tray
    • Added a Minimal FX customisation theme
    • Summoning non-targetable pets (eg: Tornado) will now correctly suppress the defence

 

 

Peacebringer

•  Energy Flight
  • Mirrored all i27, Page 2 changes for Fly
  •  Energy Flight > Quantum Acceleration
    • Now built into Energy Flight as a free secondary (server tray) power that doesn't require a power pick
    • Mirrored all i27, Page 2 changes for Afterburner
    • Note that Quantum Acceleration shares a cooldown with Afterburner

 

 

 

I'd much rather see the death of the "fiddly bits" that are pop-up power trays.  Just bake 1/3 of the new Afterburner bonus into the base Fly power and be done with it.  I'd much rather have that lesser increase constantly if it means avoiding pop-up trays, or the need to disable such trays at Null the Gull and adding Yet Another Click Power to my existing trays, which are already packed full on any high level character.

[Sovera]

With my current build and a level 50 Flight IO in Swift Fly + EvM gives me 78kph. On live I get 72.95 with just those two. An added Fly IO in Swift does not alter this.

 

With AB I'm at 100.49 and after a handful of seconds this climbs to 101.89 so just shy of the cap.

 

The common 5k flight pack is 58 mph. Using EvM does not change this. Using the flight pack with Fly works together keeping the flight pack aesthetics with Fly speeds.

 

Same behavior with Rocket Board, Magic Carpet and Skiff. So these can now be considered aesthetic customization of the Fly powers requiring only an extra toggle or click. It may or may not be possible to make a bind to activate both with just one click but regardless they have gone from curiosities to honest alternatives to the flying super hero theme. It is just spoiled by when ditching them to combat Hover without their aid.

 

 

 

I went and tested the customization for the Flight pool with the tailor. One thing I immediately noticed is how 'Bright/Dark alternate' in Hover gives no clue to what it does. I don't know if it is possible but having the character not just sit there doing the idle animation but instead adopting the Fly/Hover pose would be a lot more intuitive.

 

Despite the added 'no FX' for Afterburner it still has FX. Just a darker pallete, but still doing the animation and showing colors. The 'no FX' for Hasten, for example, removes all FX.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Sovera

[Jimmy]

9 minutes ago, Blackbird71 said:

 

 

I'd much rather see the death of the "fiddly bits" that are pop-up power trays.  Just bake 1/3 of the new Afterburner bonus into the base Fly power and be done with it.  I'd much rather have that lesser increase constantly if it means avoiding pop-up trays, or the need to disable such trays at Null the Gull and adding Yet Another Click Power to my existing trays, which are already packed full on any high level character.

Fly travel powers now take you to 87.9.

 

Mystic Flight gets a teleport. Fly gets a short term speed boost.

 

All the travel powers with “mirror” versions have received the same treatment so they can be equal, but different options.

[Jimmy]

12 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

Same behavior with Rocket Board, Magic Carpet and Skiff. So these can now be considered aesthetic customization of the Fly powers requiring only an extra toggle or click. It may or may not be possible to make a bind to activate both with just one click but regardless they have gone from curiosities to honest alternatives to the flying super hero theme. It is just spoiled by when ditching them to combat Hover without their aid.

Yup that’s basically the intention. We’d love to have them usable in combat but sadly it’s just not practical given what we’ve got to work with.

[Blackbird71]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

Fly travel powers now take you to 87.9.

 

Mystic Flight gets a teleport. Fly gets a short term speed boost.

 

All the travel powers with “mirror” versions have received the same treatment so they can be equal, but different options.

I'm trying to understand what any of that has to do with my post that you quoted.  My comment had nothing to do with the speed values, only an objection to the need for a secondary power on a pop-up tray as a needless hassle and QoL problem.  A minor one, yes, but still an unnecessary annoyance.

[mechahamham]

As of this build, upon training to level 4, Afterburner still shows in the list of flight powers that can be selected. It's greyed out, and doesn't appear the next time you train the flight pool.

[mechahamham]

When using the panther and coyote travel powers, all your powers are greyed out (or pinked out? in the powers menu). The long and short of this is that you can't attack because quadruped animations for all the powers would have to be created. You can't click on your abilities at all.

 

When using Magic Carpet, etc, your powers are still lit up. You can only use Flight and Afterburner or other movement-buff powers. When you try to use them, you get the message that you can only use powers that affect yourself. Rest works, and actually drops you off your carpet, while keeping it hovering next to you.

 

The discontinuity and inconsistency between these two feels bad and wrong. Either Coyote and Jaguar should allow self-only, run, and jumping, powers to work, applying only the movement boosts of those powers and suppressing the animations, or Magic Carpet, etc, should not.

 

If this is a 'we're doing part now, part later' thing, that should be reflected in the patch notes so that at least it can be explained to those complaining about it.

 

The unavailable powers not being greyed/pinked out are confusing as well. This could REALLY be used to be fixed before going live to avoid complaints. Walk is a third leg of uncertainty here. It shows MOST of your powers unavailable, but a few, like brawl and prestige starter attacks like mutagen, etc... are not greyed/pinked. If you try to use them you get the same 'You can only use powers that affect yourself.' message that you get when using the prestige flight powers.

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by mechahamham

[zenblack]

Build 4 EvMa Feedback:

 

With the fixes in place I have been able to properly test EvMa both in conjunction with Fly and Hover as well as without (assuming a Fly, Air Superiority/Group Fly, EvMa build).

 

EvMa with Hover and Fly is a pretty high endurance hog out of all the travel powers. I feel Hover is the main offender here, though it could be split between EvMa and Hover due to having the split protection of defense and combat protections in 2 powers instead of a single one.

 

EvMa's in combat movement speed is noticibly less zippy than in the previous builds. I'm not sure if this is a factor of how the additional speed in EvMa interacted with the unsuppressed value. I assumed that if your Fly speed reached the same point (no matter which portion of it comes from Fly or EvMa) that you would retain the same combat speed. My preference would be for it to regain it's Build 2 value as that felt fair for it's endurance/slot investment.

 

EvMa's combat protections I feel are slightly undertuned for the power and investment. This may change in the future when -fly actually has an all-or-nothing value or is used by more than a few isolated instances. This is also due to the Defender values of kb protection being slightly under where you would want it at L50 and as you level much less valuable. This also plays into having to choose 3 powers to get Immobi protection low enough level for it to be useful as opposed to just taking Fly (or more appropriately Mystic Flight) + CJ at a much lower level with a significantly lower endurance cost while getting the better parts of protection/defense when it's actually useful.

 

Of course this is all better than Live is currently but I don't feel it matches the build investment and could be nudged a bit with the choice being: 1.) 2 Pools, 2 powers, significant benefits with low endurance usable at lower levels vs 2.) 1 Pool, 3 powers, worse benefits, higher endurance, sacrifice to use at lower levels.

Edited April 7, 2021 by zenblack

[zenblack]

13 hours ago, Sovera said:

When does SS get the motorcycle of the Thugs' bruiser??

 

😄

 

That should be a #1 priority.

[Jimmy]

11 hours ago, Blackbird71 said:

I'm trying to understand what any of that has to do with my post that you quoted.  My comment had nothing to do with the speed values, only an objection to the need for a secondary power on a pop-up tray as a needless hassle and QoL problem.  A minor one, yes, but still an unnecessary annoyance.

You asked why the popup Afterburner exists, so I explained why it's set up the way it is 🙂

 

Afterburner doesn't just increase the cap, it also boosts your base speed as well which is helpful for those who don't slot for Fly Speed (and also helpful for mirroring some of the net effect produced by the live version of Afterburner). Moving some or all of that that base speed or speed cap to basic Fly would marginalize Mystic Flight, which is counter to the goals of providing different but equal travel power choices.

[twozerofoxtrot]

This issue is persisting in Build 4.   

Nevermind, fixed on zoning!

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by twozerofoxtrot
whoopsies!

[Zepp]

Still not enamored by maxed out fly being shifted from roughly 95% of Super Speed to roughly 77% (average - 73% 2/3 of the time, 85% 1/3 of the time). Super Jump is now almost 92% of Super Speed, which is an improvement (but still not parity). It would be nice to know the reasoning between the huge disparity between Super Speed and the other travel powers.

[Heatstroke]

I know I'm super late to this topic, and this might have already been discussed, but has anyone considered making the emote Fly poses as power customization options for flight? I think this would be awesome. We have four poses for flight and It would be nice to not have to type in a /e flypose command to change them. 

[Blackbird71]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

You asked why the popup Afterburner exists, so I explained why it's set up the way it is 🙂

 

Afterburner doesn't just increase the cap, it also boosts your base speed as well which is helpful for those who don't slot for Fly Speed (and also helpful for mirroring some of the net effect produced by the live version of Afterburner). Moving some or all of that that base speed or speed cap to basic Fly would marginalize Mystic Flight, which is counter to the goals of providing different but equal travel power choices.

You misunderstand.  I get why it exists.  I'm just saying that I would prefer if it didn't, and if an alternative could be found, even if that alternative is less powerful/dramatic than the proposed Afterburner.  These secondary powers on pop-up trays are an annoyance, no matter how you deal with them.  I would gladly take a reduced benefit over having to deal with that annoyance.

So far as marginalizing Mystic Flight, MF still has the teleport component.  And yes, that operates on a secondary power, which is one reason I've rarely used it.  One advantage of Fly has always been the simplicity of the power; in fact, that simplicity has been used here countless times to justify the significant difference in speeds between Fly and other travel powers.  Please keep that simplicity intact.  "Different but equal" does not need to mean "equally annoying."

Edited April 7, 2021 by Blackbird71

[Zepp]

I would like to make all power pools standardized as:

 

T¹_a: Requires level 4, no pool investment

T¹_b: Requires level 4, no pool investment

T¹_c: Requires level 4, no pool investment

T²: Requires level 14, 1 pool power investment

T³: Requires level 20, 2 pool powers investment

 

In addition, I would like to see Group Fly and EvMa flipped.

[dangeraaron10]

I'm pretty pleased with the Flight changes overall.  Thanks for adding a little extra speed to Fly as well.

[Glacier Peak]

1 hour ago, Zepp said:

I would like to make all power pools standardized as:

 

T¹_a: Requires level 4, no pool investment

T¹_b: Requires level 4, no pool investment

T¹_c: Requires level 4, no pool investment

T²: Requires level 14, 1 pool power investment

T³: Requires level 20, 2 pool powers investment

 

In addition, I would like to see Group Fly and EvMa flipped.

I like the power pool standardization you propose, but I can't see it making it's way in to this build - perhaps Page 3 it can be better addressed (seeing as how the Sorcery pool changes have prolonged this Page release further for testing). 

 

I am not supportive of the change in order between Group Fly and EvMA you proposed, UNLESS Group Fly was changed in some may (though how, I can't determine without testing).

 

Edit: On second glance, would you say this applies to non-travel based pool powers only? I would be unsupportive if access to travel pool power primaries (Fly, SS, SJ, SS, ML, MF) was raised back to Level 14. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Glacier Peak
Second glance

[M3z]

Should apply speed cap raise to pvp as well, 0 reason not to and the movespeed is the biggest appeal of this game's pvp.

 

Doesn't change anything balance wise.

[Zepp]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

Edit: On second glance, would you say this applies to non-travel based pool powers only? I would be unsupportive if access to travel pool power primaries (Fly, SS, SJ, SS, ML, MF) was raised back to Level 14. 

Those would be T1c powers, so available at 4.

[chi1701]

This is build 4. and yet no stance customisation for hover/combat flight on keldians.

Edited April 7, 2021 by chi1701