Hate to even bring this up...

[Parabola]

2 hours ago, Mezmera said:

This being a not for profit business model business entities will have very little legal legs to stand on if they should take offense to someone using the full name and look of one of their characters.  Likely they'd see it as a waste of money and resources chasing down something that doesn't make any money for them to profit off of a copyright infringement case. 

No-one knows what might happen if an ip owner starts taking an interest and decides to cause problems. I may be doing yourself and others in this thread a disservice but I'm assuming none of us are experts in the field.

 

But what may or may not happen doesn't matter in the slightest either way. All that matters is that we've been asked not to do it and it is really easy to avoid doing. It's this last point that gets me the most irritated with these debates. It's not like they've asked us to do something difficult, just avoid copying any existing ip in name or costume. It isn't rocket surgery.

 

If someone can only get enjoyment by playing as wolver1ne then the unfortunate fact is that this isn't the game/servers for them. It isn't allowed here and that is simply all there is to it.

[TheOtherTed]

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

 

 

If you are over 40, you are a boomer.  Yes, I know it was actually our parents that were the actual Boomers but that is considered a Boomer thing to bring up.  

 

As to the hive mind part, that's just us Boomers all agreeing with each other.  Like Boomers do (I guess)

 

I'm actually so old one of my parents was actually born during the war.  So I only have one real Boomer parent.  I wonder if that gives me any extra Boomer chops. 

This is going off topic, but a few years ago, I read an article in which a woman who made gameplay videos did the cyberdetective legwork to track down people who harrassed her in chat.  In the article, she said she expected to find a bunch of 40+ neckbeards living in their mothers' basements.

 

What she found were 12-15 year olds who felt a little too "empowered" by the seeming freedom of anonymity.  She was apparently surprised by that, but as I read that, I said out loud, "Well, yeah, us 40+ neckbeards have better stuff to do" (only I didn't say "stuff").  Moral of the story (if there is one):  Painting with a broad brush may hide some critical details - like who your enemy actually is.

 

That said, I have no idea what demographic the copycats belong to.  I doubt they belong to just one.  I like a good homage or parody, but, as has been stated, straight-up copies are against HC's code of conduct.

 

@cranebump, maybe our generation should be renamed "the forgotten generation" or something.  All in lower-case, of course.

[Snarky]

I do appreciate you bringing this up.  I, and I am not the only one, am so greatful to have this game back.  We must be diligent in protecting it.

 

Now, from the other perspective.  Creativity.  it is HARD to do something original.   We are not all Bob Ross after all.  And, think for a second, what if Bob Ross hated his own style?  Not saying he did.  But what if he had that natural landscape ability, looked at his work, and thought.  "Crap."  Would he stop painting?  Or start trying to emulate Picasso?

 

Most of us are not a Bob Ross, or  a Stan Lee, of character development.  Any beginning artist starts with copying the masters in their medium.  My main is a Nosferatu that is as close as I can create copy of Murnau's Nosferatu, portrayed originally be Max Shreck.  Seen in my profile pick being copied by Willem Dafoe.

 

The Blaster I created last night is a Skull sitting in a Black Knight suit of armor.  Derivative of so many horror titles.  Not a "copy' per se, but far from original.  I am writing the backstory currently but it is very inspired by Tolkein's Sauron.  Will be different.  Less than 6 feet tall, can see Skull clearly, Ice/Ice/Ice powers.  Yet the DNA will be there.  I owe the inspiration to create the character to my days, weeks...years? enjoying Tolkein's stories.  

 

Basically we need to police, for the good of the community.  But go gently my friends.  Peeps are just trying to create and enjoy.  Mostly.  Except people that do McDonald clones.  i hate that F-ing clown.  Ban them.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Snarky

[Haijinx]

55 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I do appreciate you bringing this up.  I, and I am not the only one, am so greatful to have this game back.  We must be diligent in protecting it.

 

Now, from the other perspective.  Creativity.  it is HARD to do something original.   We are not all Bob Ross after all.  And, think for a second, what if Bob Ross hated his own style?  Not saying he did.  But what if he had that natural landscape ability, looked at his work, and thought.  "Crap."  Would he stop painting?  Or start trying to emulate Picasso?

 

Most of us are not a Bob Ross, or  a Stan Lee, of character development.  Any beginning artist starts with copying the masters in their medium.  My main is a Nosferatu that is as close as I can create copy of Murnau's Nosferatu, portrayed originally be Max Shreck.  Seen in my profile pick being copied by Willem Dafoe.

 

The Blaster I created last night is a Skull sitting in a Black Knight suit of armor.  Derivative of so many horror titles.  Not a "copy' per se, but far from original.  I am writing the backstory currently but it is very inspired by Tolkein's Sauron.  Will be different.  Less than 6 feet tall, can see Skull clearly, Ice/Ice/Ice powers.  Yet the DNA will be there.  I owe the inspiration to create the character to my days, weeks...years? enjoying Tolkein's stories.  

 

Basically we need to police, for the good of the community.  But go gently my friends.  Peeps are just trying to create and enjoy.  Mostly.  Except people that do McDonald clones.  i hate that F-ing clown.  Ban them.

 

 

 

There is a big difference between playing a trademarked character and a derivative "Captain Ersatz"

 

The latter has a long tradition in Comic book lore.  Dr Manhattan is ultimately a two steps removed Ersatz of Superman.

 

Superman himself is derivative of Heracles/Gilgamesh/Samson.  The Hulk is derivative of Dr Jekyl/Mr Hyde.

 

That kind of inspired by stuff is unavoidable and intentional.    

[cranebump]

2 hours ago, TheOtherTed said:

 

@cranebump, maybe our generation should be renamed "the forgotten generation" or something.  All in lower-case, of course.

Ha! Yeah...Not even worth the full Boomer insult. It's just, "Okay...you...":-)

[golstat2003]

5 hours ago, AerialAssault said:

One needs only to look at Nintendo to know that a fan project being non-profit does not magically shield them from legal action.

 

If you absolutely must play as Wolver1ne, Dar3dev1l or Superoman there's other servers which don't give a hoot about that kinda thing.

 

I'm shocked that this needs to be said. I would think the community would be considerate enough to NOT want any grief put upon the HC team after everything they do for us. This thread has apparently taught me that people are more selfish than I first thought.

 

I mean the team has pretty much asked us not to do it.

 

They don't ask us for much.

Edited May 17, 2021 by golstat2003

[kelika2]

lotta mob justice going on here

[SaintD]

3 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

lotta mob justice going on here

 

Shouting about mob justice after pissing on a crowd because you're too self entitled and lazy not to rings pretty hollow.

[KauaiJim]

7 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Thank you.

 

Wait.  Shouldn't this have said "Thank you, thanks, I really appreciate it!"?  😜

 

As far as the baby boomer thing goes...

 

I'm 57 in a couple weeks (born in '64) and sometimes I get included in the baby boomer group.  The truth is from my perspective the actual baby boomers are my parents generation (mother born in '45) and I am part of a generation that has no specific title.  I am honestly right in the 'wake' of the baby boomers.  I often feel (even more so as I get older) that I'm the guy having to clean up the movie theater after the baby boomers massively destroy the place on a Saturday night.  The closest thing I can think of to associate my personal experience with is 'That 70's Show' and even then I would only have been around 10 so I sort of misfit that group too.  I guess you could call my generation the 'Disco' generation but I think I would prefer the 'dog poop' generation to that. lol

 

Anyhoo, speaking from a personal perspective I feel more like the guy who wanted a sandwich after the locusts were gone than actually part of that group.  🙃

[KauaiJim]

3 hours ago, Haijinx said:

 

 

Dr Manhattan is ultimately a two steps removed Ersatz of Superman.

 

Superman himself is derivative of Heracles/Gilgamesh/Samson.  The Hulk is derivative of Dr Jekyl/Mr Hyde.

 

 

Wait.  This stuff isn't real?  I'm telling the Easter Bunny what you said!   [runs off to tell mom]  😁

[Mezmera]

6 hours ago, Parabola said:

No-one knows what might happen if an ip owner starts taking an interest and decides to cause problems. I may be doing yourself and others in this thread a disservice but I'm assuming none of us are experts in the field.

 

But what may or may not happen doesn't matter in the slightest either way. All that matters is that we've been asked not to do it and it is really easy to avoid doing. It's this last point that gets me the most irritated with these debates. It's not like they've asked us to do something difficult, just avoid copying any existing ip in name or costume. It isn't rocket surgery.

 

If someone can only get enjoyment by playing as wolver1ne then the unfortunate fact is that this isn't the game/servers for them. It isn't allowed here and that is simply all there is to it.

 

With the new streaming rules I can see where it'd be more treacherous to have a Superman named character in all the guise in the background of a stream.   But the first thing to be reprimanded would be that twitch stream as that's the first thing easily identified as monetized. 

 

Don't get me wrong I won't be having a "Wonder Woman" character running around but I will have one with "Woman" in it with one costume  being a red and blue one.  I'd think the same rules would apply to these servers as they would to art sites when people make homages of the copyrighted characters, if they're not blatantly making tons of money off of it there's no action even with the ad revenue the sites generate, hence why there's so much fan art out there, which again goes to further popularize these properties.  

 

If said Wolver1ne claws/regen scrapper in yellow/blue tighties player wants to stay as they are then I'd hope they'd remain low profile and try not to appear on any streams or then yeah they are openly leaving their fate to the gods.  

Edited May 17, 2021 by Mezmera

[kelika2]

55 minutes ago, SaintD said:

 

Shouting about mob justice after pissing on a crowd because you're too self entitled and lazy not to rings pretty hollow.

Justification for mob justice is not heroic.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, kelika2 said:

Justification for mob justice is not heroic.

 

This isn't mob justice, it's a neighborhood watch meeting.  The tenants in 4B have been testing their home-made flamethrower indoors again and we don't want the entire apartment complex to be burnt to the ground.  It would be mob justice if we dragged the tenants of 4B into the street and beat them to death, but we're not doing that, we're just telling them not to be self-centered, thoughtless, careless assholes.

[Mezmera]

1 minute ago, Luminara said:

 

This isn't mob justice, it's a neighborhood watch meeting.  The tenants in 4B have been testing their home-made flamethrower indoors again and we don't want the entire apartment complex to be burnt to the ground.  It would be mob justice if we dragged the tenants of 4B into the street and beat them to death, but we're not doing that, we're just telling them not to be self-centered, thoughtless, careless assholes.

 

Be sure to forward that message on to the streamers who ARE looking to make money off of this endeavor.  They, after all, will be the ones putting things into a more precarious position, even if they're not playing themselves as a copyrighted character, they may likely run across Jane-shmo on their Harley Quine-esque gun toting character.  

 

I get it kids nowadays need to see streams of games they'd like to play which means we may have more people to play with but it IS the streamers that need to be held most accountable since they're the ones with monetized streams. 

[Haijinx]

1 hour ago, KauaiJim said:

 

Wait.  Shouldn't this have said "Thank you, thanks, I really appreciate it!"?  😜

 

As far as the baby boomer thing goes...

 

I'm 57 in a couple weeks (born in '64) and sometimes I get included in the baby boomer group.  The truth is from my perspective the actual baby boomers are my parents generation (mother born in '45) and I am part of a generation that has no specific title.  I am honestly right in the 'wake' of the baby boomers.  I often feel (even more so as I get older) that I'm the guy having to clean up the movie theater after the baby boomers massively destroy the place on a Saturday night.  The closest thing I can think of to associate my personal experience with is 'That 70's Show' and even then I would only have been around 10 so I sort of misfit that group too.  I guess you could call my generation the 'Disco' generation but I think I would prefer the 'dog poop' generation to that. lol

 

Anyhoo, speaking from a personal perspective I feel more like the guy who wanted a sandwich after the locusts were gone than actually part of that group.  🙃

Ok Boomer

[Haijinx]

16 minutes ago, Mezmera said:

 

Be sure to forward that message on to the streamers who ARE looking to make money off of this endeavor.  They, after all, will be the ones putting things into a more precarious position, even if they're not playing themselves as a copyrighted character, they may likely run across Jane-shmo on their Harley Quine-esque gun toting character.  

 

I get it kids nowadays need to see streams of games they'd like to play which means we may have more people to play with but it IS the streamers that need to be held most accountable since they're the ones with monetized streams. 

No one should be making money off Homecoming COX.

 

Homecoming isn't even making money off it.

[kelika2]

34 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

if we dragged the tenants of 4B into the street and beat them to death

You cant do this in game even if you wanted to, and I know you can understand twittermobs/social media swarms and such getting together by gathering a buncha people half-cocked to a situation.  There has been nothing but unironic hate posting in this thread.  The ones that made me cringe the most were the ones "safely able to speak on behalf of the GMs that we must take these people out in the middle of the street and beat them to.. defeat"

 

Do not give into hate.

[kelika2]

12 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

No one should be making money off Homecoming COX.

 

Homecoming isn't even making money off it.

Is there even money to be made streaming CoX?  I mean I love this game and all but even I know there is only so much to do and cant fathom some steamer big enough to make money constantly playing CoX for any realistic amount of time

[siolfir]

7 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Is there even money to be made streaming CoX?  I mean I love this game and all but even I know there is only so much to do and cant fathom some steamer big enough to make money constantly playing CoX for any realistic amount of time

Probably not a lot unless the channel is already established, in which case they're making money because of who they are, not what they're streaming. I'm not a streamer but from what I understand, the ad revenue is negligible until you get into the realm of thousands of concurrent viewers.

[KauaiJim]

19 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Ok Boomer

 

Technically you are correct.  My point was that I am actually part of a smaller generation that gets called 'baby boomer' because they decided to extend that period for whatever reason.  My point also is I missed the boat on reaping many of the 'American dream' benefits on being in that generation and am simply labelled as part of it.  Completely petty and irrelevant distinction, I know, I just find it odd to be lumped in with a group of folk who lived a very different generation than I did and still be considered part of that group.  I have a feeling I'm not completely alone in my perspective.  As an example (or evidence) of what I was trying to convey why suddenly in 1965 (six months after I was born) is everyone Gen X?  Now that I look closer at the whole supposed 'generation' thing it's all kind of 'broadly' applied even though many folks on each end of these arbitrary time periods (withing each group) lived or experienced very different things..  lol   😉

 

Lost Gen = 17 years

Silent Gen = 17 years

Baby Boomers = 18 years

Millennials = 15 years

Gen Z = 16 years

Gen Alpha (wth kinda name is that? lol better than 'lost' I guess) = However flipping long they decide to make it 

 

 

[Mezmera]

54 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

No one should be making money off Homecoming COX.

 

Homecoming isn't even making money off it.

 

That's how twitch/youtube streaming works.  

 

Subscriber count added with advertisements on their channels.  The bigger the subscriber count the more money that streamer makes if they are streaming things like games.  

Edited May 17, 2021 by Mezmera

[Glacier Peak]

On the topic of the thread itself, and has been repeated already, these things won't become a problem as long as we can self police our own community. See a player violating the code of conduct? Report it to an in-game GM or through the forums, or on Discord (often found to be the quickest response in my experience). After that, it will be dealt with as the Homecoming staff see fit. If it keeps happening (there will always be another), they've made clear they are open to reversing the policy like they've done in the past.

 

I think anything past this point is supposition and only mildly entertaining.

[KauaiJim]

25 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

There has been nothing but unironic hate posting in this thread.  The ones that made me cringe the most were the ones "safely able to speak on behalf of the GMs that we must take these people out in the middle of the street and beat them to.. defeat"

 

I'm afraid you have me very wrong and I could not possibly disagree more strongly.  The only 'hate' I'm feeling here isn't coming from me... hint hint.

Nor have I ever implied anyone should be dragged into the street and beaten.  Perhaps you aren't referring to me or any of the others in this post who said grown up things in a grown up way.  Or perhaps you were referring to me in which case I would suggest calming down.  BECAUSE YOU AREN'T MAKING MUCH SENSE if that is the case.  lol

 

The original purpose or point to this thread was to bring a valid community concern to light (someone possibly breaking the terms they agreed to).  The correct course of action (in this case) is to turn it over to the Homecoming GM team.  They will evaluate it.  It MAY or MAY NOT be a violation.  It isn't up to any of us to make that call.  However, you AND OTHERS can pop in here and post your opinions (mine included) all day long.  It's kind of what forums are for.  I honestly don't think anything being said in this thread is any kind of threat to you so I just don't quite see the reason for a statement like the one bolded above.  You have every right to make that statement.  I simply will use my identical right to disagree.  I'm not quite seeing the 'hate' you are implying.  Hate for what exactly?  I'm, confused. 

 

Oh never mind...  This thread started out as a Mogwai and someone fed it after midnight. lol

 

There is honestly no point to keep posting in this thread other than to possibly cause a headache for some folks who don't deserve one so I am officially done with this particular circular conversation.  Peace out (of this thread 🙂)

[MTeague]

6 hours ago, Snarky said:

Now, from the other perspective.  Creativity.  it is HARD to do something original.   We are not all Bob Ross after all.  And, think for a second, what if Bob Ross hated his own style?  Not saying he did.  But what if he had that natural landscape ability, looked at his work, and thought.  "Crap."  Would he stop painting?  Or start trying to emulate Picasso?

 

My take on it?

 

Some people are going to have inborn creativity bonuses.  Same way some folks are just GOOD at certain sports, some people are just GOOD in social situations, and some people are just GOOD at math and hard analysis. These are all human and normal variations. 

 

But even if someone wasnt born with a gift for it?  Then treat Creativity like a muscle.  It's possible to get better at it, but it requires both maintenance exercise, and strength training.  If someone hasn't focused any effort at it for decades, because it wasn't important to them, they had other things consuming their time and attention, etc, then yea, that person will start seriously behind the 8 ball. It doesn't mean they're chained there forever, it just means that's where they are, for now. 

 

Everyone's approach is going to be different.  My steps below may not work for everyone. But they're what helped me start to get better at this. 

When cooking up a new character, I choose the AT I want, the powersets I want, then take a 2nd look and decide if the AT makes the most sense. 

Then i decide

• What's their name?  Their secret identity.   My blaster is Agent Bluejay.  Her name is Margaret (Maggie) Rosaline O'Malley.  This affects nothing, but just choosing a first, middle,  and last name that fit together starts spiking the brain into different creative directions.
• How did they get their powers?  Did they always have them?  Were they perfectly normal as a kid and something happened as an adult to either grant or unlock those powers? Having some picture of "what was life like for them, BEFORE they arrived at paragon?", is seriously important to a backstory, and helps me tweak them a bit more is costume creator, making them a bit more mine.  In the case of Bluejay, she was an entirely normal soldier agaist the Rikti until she was mangled horribly in a battle with them / blown up.  She's now effectively a human-looking cyborg, and she has a massive hang-up with the fact that she's now much more machine than human.  If your character started wiht their powers ALWAYS available to them, okay, fine.... what was life like at age 6?  age 10?  How did they handle being "different"? How did others handle them?
• What do they care about?  Truth Justice and the American Express? The Good of the Many? Are they devoted to protecting the world now, because of someone they COULDN'T protect earlier, when it really mattered?  If they're a hero, can they handle delibberately letting bad things happen to somone to set a trap for the bad guys?  or are they unflichingly devoted to their ideals?  If they're a villain, well, what kind of villain?  What drove them to this?  Power and let the world burn?  Were they outcast as a freak and plan to rule over everyone else in revenge?  Do they just want a life of idle wealth to enjoy in St. Martial and let other fools who enjoy the headaches rule the world?  

By the time I answer these, their costume usually makes itself for me.  It gives me a baseline for the type of costume they'd probably wear, etc.

 

 

[Luminara]

28 minutes ago, KauaiJim said:

Lost Gen = 17 years

Silent Gen = 17 years

Baby Boomers = 18 years

Millennials = 15 years

Gen Z = 16 years

Gen Alpha (wth kinda name is that? lol better than 'lost' I guess) = However flipping long they decide to make it 

 

A generation is however long it takes for a group of newly hatched homo sapiens larva to reach the point of spawning their own larva in significant quantities.  Typically, that's around 15-18 years.  In the past, generations were shorter, sometimes as low as 12 years, because that's when the species reaches sexual maturity in both genders (it wasn't uncommon for people as young as 12 to be married and have full-time jobs in the 17th, 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries, for instance).  Generational length tends to vary as society changes in response to different factors, such as economic growth, better medical care, educational quality and technological improvement, so it's not something that can be accurately predicted, only recorded.

 

That's the best summation, that I can give, of what constitutes a generation.