to whom it may concern: my computer died

[cohRock]

My computer died last night.  Sigh.  I knew it was getting old, and I was in the process of deciding what to replace it with.  I've ordered a "2021 HP Pavilion Gaming Desktop" which should arrive mid- to late-next week.  The dead computer was 8 to 10 years old; I don't even remember when I got it.  Suffice it to say it still had the Live version of CoH installed.  😎

 

Anyway, the new computer (HP TG01-2176z) includes 16 GByte RAM, 512 Gbyte SSD (the boot drive with Windows 10), 1 TByte hard drive, Rizen CPU, GEForce graphics card with 12 GBytes of its own RAM, 400-watt PS, and all-in-all should be a significant upgrade. ..  I should even be able to exit City Hall without a 10-second period of blackness!

 

The one feature it lacks is an optical drive, which sort of surprises me.  Certain other HP Models I looked at did include a R/W DVD drive, but as far as I can tell, HP has dropped BlueRay players from their lineup (assuming they ever did support them).  Since my existing movie collection includes both DVDs and BlueRays, a vanilla DVD player would have been a stop backwards. (I still have my Playstation 3 to watch BlueRays on, though.) Thus I'm not too disappointed that this machine doesn't have one.  Hopefully there will be a bay to install a BlueRay drive.  I'm assuming that external models would be inferior, because IIRC DVDs and BlueRay players have a cable to connect directly to your graphics card to maximize their performance.

 

Just out of curiosity, is HP an outlier in terms of BlueRay systems?  I would have thought by now they would be standard, just as DVD players completely replaced CD-Rom drives.  It surprised me to see they do not come standard on advanced desktop PCs from HP.

[EmperorSteele]

To ensure fast gameplay, definitely install CoH onto the SSD! Everything will load faster! As for the lack of Blu-Ray, yeah, that's becoming standard. Lots of people stream their entertainment these days, so PC manufacturers are using that as an excuse to drop optical drives and save some cash (not that any such savings are passed onto you).

[drdread]

12 minutes ago, cohRock said:

Just out of curiosity, is HP an outlier in terms of BlueRay systems?  I would have thought by now they would be standard, just as DVD players completely replaced CD-Rom drives.  It surprised me to see they do not come standard on advanced desktop PCs from HP.

 

A couple of years ago, I worked at a large computer store as a tech, building and repairing computers (mainly). Very few of the systems we sold had an optical drive in them. Usually people bought an external blu-ray drive, for the occasional times they needed them.

[Psyonico]

1 hour ago, cohRock said:

I'm assuming that external models would be inferior, because IIRC DVDs and BlueRay players have a cable to connect directly to your graphics card to maximize their performance.

 

Optical drives have been on their way out for a while now, but I still like having one.  As for the speed, you won't see a significant difference between an external Blu-Ray drive and an internal one (the connection for internal is a SATA 3 connection to your motherboard, which is 600 MB/s max while USB 3.1 can theoretically get 10 Gb/s).

[Chance Jackson]

what model of video card is it exactly?

[cohRock]

1 hour ago, Chance Jackson said:

what model of video card is it exactly?

I believe it will be an NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 3060 (12 GB GDDR6 dedicated).  That was what was mentioned during my sales-support chat, which they emailed me a copy of when the session was over.  The session report also states that it has a Ryzen 7 processor.  I say "I believe" because the link at the HP site for my system reports that this specific model of Pavilion is out of stock and provides links to similar HP machines.  I got an email this morning saying it shipped, so I may be getting the last one for now.  I hope anyway; I'll be P-O'd if it went on back-order.  The link did work last night, though.

 

@Psyonico I'm pretty sure I remember two cables, the connection to the motherboard and one directly to the graphics board.  This is on an older machine though, so I may be misremembering or the technology within the drives themselves have improved.

[tidge]

3 hours ago, cohRock said:

 I would have thought by now they would be standard, just as DVD players completely replaced CD-Rom drives.  It surprised me to see they do not come standard on advanced desktop PCs from HP.

 

If your chassis will take an optical drive, your power supply likely should be able to handle a second SATA optical drive. My guess is that the SDD/HDD are probably on one SATA connection and the DVD drive is on the second. A supplier like HP may be cutting things close w.r.t. power budgets, but you can review your components (primarily the video card) to determine if the power budget can comfortably accommodate another drive. Maybe its just my experience with certain commercial blu-rays, but as far as being a storage medium they seem much 'flakier' than CDs or DVDs. I have a couple of 'problematic' commercial blu-rays, but it's very rare that I have a DVD that won't be read (unless it is physically damaged).

 

The net cost for an external blu-ray versus an internal is roughly in the same ballpark, The external ones will typically require TWO (adjacent) USB connections to be powered, and I would hope that all of your USB connections are 3.0 compliant (for a just purchased machine) but if not then the  external blu-rays will be slower than from an internal drive.

 

My (now, quite old) primary desktop was assembled (by my choice, although not my hands) with two DVD R/W which might have been overkill even for its era, but certainly is these days. During pandemic times I used both internal drives to archive a LOT of my CD & DVD collection; having two drives made that job a little easier.

I used an external USB-powered drive to archive my blu-rays, or as an alternate reader if I had a slightly damaged DVD. The external blu-ray has been successful between 50% - 66% of the time to read/rip my DVDs that had no obvious signs of damage but couldn't be read via the DVD drives. In my configuration I don't have easy access to the necessary USB 3.0 ports so the BRs are much slower. (I could tear my rig apart to reconfigure the front panel USB connectors, and frankly I was surprised that it wasn't assembled that way but given the internal cable routings and the front-panel layout the risk outweighs the reward. The times I've been inside the box I'm surprised by how much effort this relatively simply task would take.)

 

 

[Abraxus]

I'm playing on a 6 year old system, with an nVidia GTX960.  I play with EVERYTHING (except shadows) turned all the way up, without any lag.  So, with everything about your new PC surpassing mine, I'd say once you get all the settings the way you want them, you are going to see a noticeable improvement in performance, image quality, and pretty much everything else.  That would be for CoH, and pretty much anything else you might want to play on that rig!

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Abraxus

[Greycat]

Yeah... built my system a couple of years ago and even then, trying to find a case with an optical drive opening was... difficult. (All the LEDs and tempered glass you could shake a stick at, though... neither of which I cared about, and of course they kind of forgot little things like airflow in a lot of them.)

 

Regardless... yeah, most modern systems shouldn't really have an issue with COH.

[Glacier Peak]

3 hours ago, cohRock said:

I believe it will be an NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 3060 (12 GB GDDR6 dedicated).  That was what was mentioned during my sales-support chat, which they emailed me a copy of when the session was over.  The session report also states that it has a Ryzen 7 processor.  I say "I believe" because the link at the HP site for my system reports that this specific model of Pavilion is out of stock and provides links to similar HP machines.  I got an email this morning saying it shipped, so I may be getting the last one for now.  I hope anyway; I'll be P-O'd if it went on back-order.  The link did work last night, though.

 

@Psyonico I'm pretty sure I remember two cables, the connection to the motherboard and one directly to the graphics board.  This is on an older machine though, so I may be misremembering or the technology within the drives themselves have improved.

On the RTX 3060 card, you can connect: 1 HDMI 2.1 and 3 Display Port 1.4a cables for multi monitor set ups. There is only the graphics card to the monitor cable and/or audio output if you are using a display port cable.

[Nerio72]

Was it a hard drive failure? If not you could pull it and save your live CoH (and I guess other stuff 😉) Mine died a while back and I was able to access the files from it. I got an HP gaming system too, and the no CD drive threw me for a loop. Also it didn't have a second connection for dual monitors, but it turned out I didn't need it. I've had no issues with it running the game.

[cohRock]

24 minutes ago, Nerio72 said:

Was it a hard drive failure? If not you could pull it and save your live CoH (and I guess other stuff 😉) Mine died a while back and I was able to access the files from it. I got an HP gaming system too, and the no CD drive threw me for a loop. Also it didn't have a second connection for dual monitors, but it turned out I didn't need it. I've had no issues with it running the game.

Yeah, I'm thinking of transplanting the current hard drive if possible.  I'm guessing that the problem is the power supply.  When I turn it on, it starts whirring up like it always has, then it sputters to almost silence, then it tries to whir up again, etc.  At any rate, the monitor never gets a signal.  I tried opening it up, looking for loose connections, blowing dust away with canned air, seeing if any fans were bound, etc., but nothing changed.  Instead of fighting with it and trying to repair it, I thank it for the years it has given me, and accept that it is time to move on.

[KauaiJim]

Yeah I second the 'pull the drive(s)' and retain the data if possible.  I literally have a box full of hard drives pulled from old comps and have many times rooted through them to find things.  I even have an external drive bay designed for dropping in drives easily.  Also, sometimes I pull the drives and just add them internally into my comp if I know I will possibly need access to them for a bit.

 

The no CD/DVD/Blu Ray is the 'wave of the future' as others have pointed out.  Been happening over the last few years.  So no, HP is not an outlier.  They are still available both internal and external (which would work but not benefit from connecting directly to your video card).  Blu Ray will make the cost go up a bit.  External DVD players are super inexpensive though and even Walmart carries an LG for around $30, if you could live without Blu Ray that is.

 

Edited to add:  Without some experience and ready access to parts to swap or testing equipment, etc. it can be tricky to determine what failed.  Power Supply certainly could be it but it could also be your motherboard, etc.  I recently had a failure on an ASUS motherboard - most likely some capacitor that dried out or possibly a solder connection with a hairline crack.  Sometimes repeated heating and cooling can even eventually cause the connection to break inside the component (IC chip, transistor, etc.).  I use to repair consumer electronics for a few years so I kind of know how to troubleshoot with limited resources.  Anyhow, the failure I had could have been the PS unit but turned out to be the MB.  Then there's memory, cpu, gpu....  For most folks I would recommend going to complete replacement route as you have, especially in an aging comp that sounds like it was already struggling just to zone in Atlas Park.  Just my two cents. 👍

Edited June 5, 2021 by KauaiJim

[Ironblade]

My girlfriend and I built new systems in November and did not get optical drives for them.  I downloaded Win10 on my previous system and put it on a USB drive for installation.

[nihilii]

If you swap your old drive, make sure you move the CoH files to your new SSD, as has been suggested. Going from HDD to SSD is IMHO the highest quality upgrade for CoH, near instant loading times make travel a lot more enjoyable.

[Scarlet Shocker]

12 hours ago, Greycat said:

Yeah... built my system a couple of years ago and even then, trying to find a case with an optical drive opening was... difficult. (All the LEDs and tempered glass you could shake a stick at, though... neither of which I cared about, and of course they kind of forgot little things like airflow in a lot of them.)

 

Regardless... yeah, most modern systems shouldn't really have an issue with COH.

 

 

Yeah bring back beige! Who cares what your prize gaming rig that cost you a couple of months salary (or more) looks like? 😄 😄 😄

 

 

Spoiler

the above was facetious humour. Shame on you for thinking otherwise 😉

 

[Greycat]

26 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

Yeah bring back beige! Who cares what your prize gaming rig that cost you a couple of months salary (or more) looks like? 😄 😄 😄

 

... what, you got something against the classics? Like my Mac Classic? :)  (... which, actually, I need to see if still boots...)

[Scarlet Shocker]

37 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

... what, you got something against the classics? Like my Mac Classic? 🙂 (... which, actually, I need to see if still boots...)

Never mind the contents, feel the cover! 😉

[cohRock]

<sigh> Runaround <sigh>

Skip if you don't care about rants and/or tirades.  (I haven't decided yet.)

 

I ordered the computer from the HP website Thursday evening.  Fedex received notification that there has been an order, and Friday morning they notified me that they had printed a label!  They also said to expect delivery by end of the day Sunday.  Friday is also when the "my cart" page said that the computer I ordered is out of stock and I should remove it from my order.  It has said that consistently until now, and the Fed Ex page hasn't been updated except instead of saying delivery would be on the 6th, not it just says "pending".

 

I've had a couple text chats with HP online support.  They assure me that there are no problems, and just a while ago even said I should have delivery by the 11th (Friday).  Even though their website says for me to remove the order and FedEx does not even have the machine yet.  I am 98% sure that I am receiving the "runaround", with the reps unable to give me any actual information, there is no problem, the computer has been shipped, and everything is hunky dory.  (My words, not theirs. 😒 )

 

Is there any reasonable possibility the support agent is right?  There are no problems, and I can expect the computer by Friday?  If so, they have a really screwed up system notifying Fed Ex days in advance that there will be a shipment, and also informing the customer the computer is out of stock and it should be removed from my cart.  It is the mixed messages that make this most frustrating.  I think I got a pretty good deal on a pretty good machine, but only if they can actually perform in a reasonable time frame.  I would accept Friday as reasonable if not for the mixed messages.

[KauaiJim]

Does HP customer service offer any explanation?  Like "Yes, we are aware of a 'glitch' in our system that is purely cosmetic on the web page, however we can assure you that your order is processing and will be completed without complication.".  Or was it more like "I'm sure your order is fine, go have a latte..."? (a.k.a. runaround)

 

It sounds like they perhaps have some internal snag they aren't informing you about.  But, it's HP, so who knows.  I hope it's just a cosmetic glitch as I'm sure you do but if I'm honest it doesn't sound exactly like they are being straight with you.  Sorry.

[cohRock]

@KauaiJim No explanation.  One I might be able to accept would be, "We have to customize the computer to your exact specification."  Okay, cool, I can see that taking a day or two.  (I'm sort of pretending that is what is going on, but I don't really believe it.)  Instead they just say that there is no problem, that it just takes time to fulfill the order.  FedEx is slow in updating their order tracking, etc.  The last one is the most egregious; I know from many orders in past (usually Amazon) that FedEx tracking is scarily up to date, and even USPS tracking is quite good.

Edited June 8, 2021 by cohRock

[Hyperstrike]

On 6/4/2021 at 11:22 AM, cohRock said:

Anyway, the new computer (HP TG01-2176z) includes 16 GByte RAM, 512 Gbyte SSD (the boot drive with Windows 10), 1 TByte hard drive, Rizen CPU, GEForce graphics card with 12 GBytes of its own RAM, 400-watt PS, and all-in-all should be a significant upgrade. ..  I should even be able to exit City Hall without a 10-second period of blackness!

 

I recommend loading CoH to the SSD.
It'll load and zone faster.

 

On 6/4/2021 at 11:22 AM, cohRock said:

The one feature it lacks is an optical drive, which sort of surprises me.  Certain other HP Models I looked at did include a R/W DVD drive, but as far as I can tell, HP has dropped BlueRay players from their lineup (assuming they ever did support them).  Since my existing movie collection includes both DVDs and BlueRays, a vanilla DVD player would have been a stop backwards. (I still have my Playstation 3 to watch BlueRays on, though.) Thus I'm not too disappointed that this machine doesn't have one.  Hopefully there will be a bay to install a BlueRay drive.  I'm assuming that external models would be inferior, because IIRC DVDs and BlueRay players have a cable to connect directly to your graphics card to maximize their performance.

 

Bad assumption.

USB-C and USB3 should be more than fast enough to handle movies.

When I build my new desktop, I didn't bother moving any of my internal opticals.

I just bought an external.

 

On 6/4/2021 at 11:22 AM, cohRock said:

Just out of curiosity, is HP an outlier in terms of BlueRay systems?  I would have thought by now they would be standard, just as DVD players completely replaced CD-Rom drives.  It surprised me to see they do not come standard on advanced desktop PCs from HP.

 

No.  Again with the advent of streaming, optical media has been in decline for about 10 years or so now (hell, my Netflix account is coming up on its 10th anniversary).

 

 

[Boudicia.Dark]

I would be very surprised if that video card was not still on back order. I thought my system was overkill but yours is just going to smoke everything down. Once you get it (I hope in time)

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, Boudicia.Dark said:

I would be very surprised if that video card was not still on back order. I thought my system was overkill but yours is just going to smoke everything down. Once you get it (I hope in time)

 

 

No.  Prebuilts from system integrators have priority over retail.  So the wait is FAR less.  Sometimes maybe a week or two, though 3080's and 3090's are still, usually, a month out or so.

This is why, if you want the vidcard, it's easier to buy the prebuilt, swap in a cheap card, and then resell the system.

[cohRock]

Welp, I'm going to stop whining.  FedEx tracking now says it is on route and due to be delivered tomorrow evening (9 June).  I came very close to cancelling the order earlier today when there had been no updates on either the FedEx or HP sites, and the HP representative could only tell me the order had been processed.  Now my hope is that it arrives in good condition.