Determining if the Game is Too Easy

[BZRKR]

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 hour ago, BZRKR said:

No SIR! No they are very clearly all not bloody heroes. In fact the one who gets billed as the biggest hero in the end, Tony Stark is literally beyond redemption and should have been imprisoned or executed for every single action committed by Ultron. In the MCU Ultron is 100% the fault of Tony and Bruce, and the fact he is not only allowed to remain free, but his wealth not stripped from him to pay restoration to any and every single person who lost something due to Ultron's attack is the kind of glossing over his actions that make the movies basically get watched as pure mindless action flicks by me, because the story and writing does not portray heroic icons imo.

 

Hell even the Blip only remains because Tony was so selfish he had to have the 5 years and his little girl exist be put above removing all the horror the blip must surely have caused to so many all over the world. Keeping that Blip was such a selfish act on Starks part it is beyond any atrocity committed by any other in all of the MCU.

[Blackbird71]

2 hours ago, BZRKR said:

 

But not everyone survives the fight.  That's the difference.

[GM Impervium]

The only Hero who didn't survive that fight was literally the one with the 2 billion dollar build!

[SaintD]

Just imagine.....you get snapped out of existence by Thanos. You watch yourself turn to dust and disappear. Your loved ones looking on in horror. The black void of oblivion is upon you.

BOOM! You're back! Life! You feel the wind on your face, it carries the smell of the trees, you see the sun in the beautiful blue sky.....

.....then you walk through a portal and get instantly smooshed by a massive ogre-thing.

[oedipus_tex]

I do wonder if things would end differently for those movie heroes if they were using City of Heroes powers.

 

 

[universe ends because of Electric Control's Gremlins]

[Blackbird71]

1 hour ago, GM Impervium said:

The only Hero who didn't survive that fight was literally the one with the 2 billion dollar build!

Nah, he spent all his Inf in the costume creator.  

[Ghost]

I think someone is taking the MCU a little too seriously 

[SwitchFade]

@Luminarayou don't team?

 

Sad 🐼

[SwitchFade]

25 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I think someone is taking the MCU a little too seriously 

In Soviet Russia, the MCU takes YOU too seriously.

[Luminara]

12 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

@Luminarayou don't team?

 

Sad 🐼

 

Teams are a social experience.  I have social anxiety disorder.  Oil and water.

[Infinitum]

3 hours ago, Llewellyn Blackwell said:

No SIR! No they are very clearly all not bloody heroes. In fact the one who gets billed as the biggest hero in the end, Tony Stark is literally beyond redemption and should have been imprisoned or executed for every single action committed by Ultron. In the MCU Ultron is 100% the fault of Tony and Bruce, and the fact he is not only allowed to remain free, but his wealth not stripped from him to pay restoration to any and every single person who lost something due to Ultron's attack is the kind of glossing over his actions that make the movies basically get watched as pure mindless action flicks by me, because the story and writing does not portray heroic icons imo.

 

Hell even the Blip only remains because Tony was so selfish he had to have the 5 years and his little girl exist be put above removing all the horror the blip must surely have caused to so many all over the world. Keeping that Blip was such a selfish act on Starks part it is beyond any atrocity committed by any other in all of the MCU.

[Wavicle]

3 hours ago, Llewellyn Blackwell said:

No SIR! No they are very clearly all not bloody heroes. In fact the one who gets billed as the biggest hero in the end, Tony Stark is literally beyond redemption and should have been imprisoned or executed for every single action committed by Ultron. In the MCU Ultron is 100% the fault of Tony and Bruce, and the fact he is not only allowed to remain free, but his wealth not stripped from him to pay restoration to any and every single person who lost something due to Ultron's attack is the kind of glossing over his actions that make the movies basically get watched as pure mindless action flicks by me, because the story and writing does not portray heroic icons imo.

 

Hell even the Blip only remains because Tony was so selfish he had to have the 5 years and his little girl exist be put above removing all the horror the blip must surely have caused to so many all over the world. Keeping that Blip was such a selfish act on Starks part it is beyond any atrocity committed by any other in all of the MCU.

I know what you're saying, and in a Real World analysis, ESPECIALLY a class analysis, you would be absolutely right.

But in the context of the MCU, they are definitely all heroes.

[Sunsette]

I level most of my characters through Praetoria, 1-35. When I don't feel like doing it, I do power leveling usually.

 

I play the game largely to realize concepts -- most of the content in the game isn't designed in a way that's immersive or interesting. 90% of blue side missions feel like two paragraphs of text then one of four maps where I have to kill 70 to 100% of the map. There's little to no thinking involved. When there's any of that, I actually play the game -- though gold side is starting to run thin for me. So yeah, I like content basically from Going Rogue on and dislike most of the stuff before that. 

 

Just to answer the "why do people like to PL" questions. 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Sunsette

[Monos King]

4 hours ago, Llewellyn Blackwell said:

No SIR! No they are very clearly all not bloody heroes. In fact the one who gets billed as the biggest hero in the end, Tony Stark is literally beyond redemption and should have been imprisoned or executed for every single action committed by Ultron. In the MCU Ultron is 100% the fault of Tony and Bruce, and the fact he is not only allowed to remain free, but his wealth not stripped from him to pay restoration to any and every single person who lost something due to Ultron's attack is the kind of glossing over his actions that make the movies basically get watched as pure mindless action flicks by me, because the story and writing does not portray heroic icons imo.

 

Hell even the Blip only remains because Tony was so selfish he had to have the 5 years and his little girl exist be put above removing all the horror the blip must surely have caused to so many all over the world. Keeping that Blip was such a selfish act on Starks part it is beyond any atrocity committed by any other in all of the MCU.

I'm debating whether or not to let this thread devolve into "Determing Whether or not we're actually Heroes". 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Monos King
lol wtf

[Monos King]

32 minutes ago, Sunsette said:

There's little to no thinking involved.

Another reason I'd like to see some thoughtful mechanics added to enemy groups and missions. I said this earlier, but incentive to play the game less hastily is also something that will help mitigate the out-pour of those that are too strong stomping on content with the lesser powered, and thus increasing those players sense of efficacy in teams. Also if it's any indication from responses in this thread, it'd probably be more enjoyable. Though I do realize some have expressed they aren't too fond of it as it exists now, such as Luminara, so perhaps we could think of some that would appeal to them as well. Then everything would check out. 

[Sunsette]

I'd love to see more thoughtful mechanics, and excited for what Cobalt Arachne has promised.

 

I think part of the problem with Gold-side is that it's a bit *too* advanced when it comes to encounter composition and dynamics; if you compare it to newer content in Blue side (and Red side, the little of that I've done) that came after it, that stuff is not quite as hard, though it keeps the varied mechanics and mission types with talkative NPCs and story presentation that isn't all tucked in a menu two clicks deep.

 

Praetoria isn't the hardest thing ever, but it was definitely designed to be beaten by people who already basically know how the game works, while otherwise using more modern design principles that appeal to people outside of CoX's hardcore-since-2004 install base. There are a number of enemy abilities that I hate/relish for the challenge on a fresh character but that I would consider way overtuned for the level and as content meant to get people into the game.

 

Without fail, every friend I've tried to get into the game that has left after starting on Red or Blue side leaves b/c they hate the gameplay and writing; n Gold because it's too hard. If they stick around, conversely, they like how easy Red/Blue are or the challenge of Gold.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Sunsette

[Galaxy Brain]

13 hours ago, America's Angel said:

 

This just sounds like a description of a team of players of mixed ability levels and builds. If a casual player with a casual build joins a team of min/maxer tryhards, they're going to be left in the dirt. That's just haves vs have nots.

 

That same player has the option of min/maxing their build and learning how to play optimally. So I don't see any issue here.

 

So there is a spectrum of players that cannot as easily be defined as casual/try hard. In HC, you can "casually" get Incarnates by just playing and never touching the market, allowing you to get lvl shift / destiny / judgement powers. Would such a player who never looked into guides outside of eyeballing and slapping stuff they saw in their trays and thus get to be +1 with nukes be a casual? Would somebody with a "bad" IO build be a min maxxer since they went beyond the game to figure out mids and whip something up?

 

 

 

 

@BZRKR, I do not necessarily hate powerful characters, I have a blaster that can rech cap itself and fly through missions past whole teams. It can be fun as hell! However, on the opposite end there isn't much that this character struggles against if at all on top of how I do not need to be with the team feels like it sort of defeats the purpose of teaming (outside divide and conquer I suppose). To me, I would love more stuff to chew on that requires characters that powerful which could be engaging for many folks, and allow people more room to participate and team up and feel meaningful as opposed to either being carried or soloing together.

 

[Snarky]

12 hours ago, Llewellyn Blackwell said:

No SIR! No they are very clearly all not bloody heroes. In fact the one who gets billed as the biggest hero in the end, Tony Stark is literally beyond redemption and should have been imprisoned or executed for every single action committed by Ultron. In the MCU Ultron is 100% the fault of Tony and Bruce, and the fact he is not only allowed to remain free, but his wealth not stripped from him to pay restoration to any and every single person who lost something due to Ultron's attack is the kind of glossing over his actions that make the movies basically get watched as pure mindless action flicks by me, because the story and writing does not portray heroic icons imo.

 

Hell even the Blip only remains because Tony was so selfish he had to have the 5 years and his little girl exist be put above removing all the horror the blip must surely have caused to so many all over the world. Keeping that Blip was such a selfish act on Starks part it is beyond any atrocity committed by any other in all of the MCU.

So..... The stories are in fact a reflection of reality.  You know this?  

 

Stark industries is/was one of the largest producers of killing machines/devices/toys/games on the planet.  This did not net the Stark family ANY jail time.

 

The fact that one of Stark's products went apeshit and killed a bunch of people.....seems to have been dealt with through storytelling.  And lawyers and PR firms.

 

This is the "reality" that is reflected in the movies.  Mindless?  Sure.  As mindless as everyone starting to use electric cars but most of the vehicle pollution in cities comes from diesel trucks. (I drive one)  and NO ONE wants to pay more for the stuff in groceries/stores/malls so no one says shit about that.

[Snarky]

8 hours ago, Monos King said:

I'm debating whether or not to let this thread devolve into "Determing Whether or not we're actually Heroes". 

For a page or two you have no choice I think 🙂 

[Galaxy Brain]

15 hours ago, BZRKR said:

 

So, the thing about this and why it worked (beyond writers making it work) is that not everyone was doing the same thing. You had people fighting specific enemies, you had people with different objectives like distract Thanos / get to the van / move the gauntlet / etc, that allowed each person to contribute in a manner that was fitting for them. 

 

This is easy to do in a movie or show, now so much in a video game where Arch/Trick Hawkeye is meant to be on roughly equal footing to Eng/EA Capt Marvel on a conceptual level (their attacks hit roughly the same, they have the same ballpark of "HP", etc). The above example also had different goals where each character felt important and had moments to shine, as well as no aggro cap so they all could get a share of enemies 😉

 

I get it given the source material of CoH, but at the end of the day it is a video game where people get to CHOOSE their powers. When that is the reality, there needs to be some semblance of balance.

[Dona Eis Requiem]

Power creep isn't a new phenomenon.  There's only so much that can be added to any game before it's simply time for the sequel. Think of every game you've played ever. How many expansions did you play before you reached the pinnacle and got bored? How many were older games you found long after release and were bored because you were the noob and were left in the dust by those looking down their noses at you, you lowly worm. lol

That said; I barely just came back about 3 months ago. I don't have any uberleet characters yet and might not for quite some time.  I have one level 50 in the Incarnate range (working on Tier 2 of all the things) and have completely solo'd her to that point. I have only teamed up a couple times on a few different characters. For the most part, I was bored because everyone else was in roflstomp mode and I'm just starting out.  (I'm not passing judgement or criticizing people for the way they like to play, nor am I whining; it is what it is)

I think if the new content was approached as incarnate expansions, that would be great. It would give people in that range something else to do for merits, etc. 

Even better if the WTF/SF can be offered in such a manner that separates by character level (i.e.-no sidekicks for Incarnate stuff and vice versa)

That approach could, imo,  maintain the integrity of the experience for everyone. 

Other than that, this is a great opportunity for the volunteers working on the current state of things to maybe get together and make an (unofficial?) CoH/V 2. 

 

[Neiska]

14 hours ago, Llewellyn Blackwell said:

No SIR! No they are very clearly all not bloody heroes. In fact the one who gets billed as the biggest hero in the end, Tony Stark is literally beyond redemption and should have been imprisoned or executed for every single action committed by Ultron. In the MCU Ultron is 100% the fault of Tony and Bruce, and the fact he is not only allowed to remain free, but his wealth not stripped from him to pay restoration to any and every single person who lost something due to Ultron's attack is the kind of glossing over his actions that make the movies basically get watched as pure mindless action flicks by me, because the story and writing does not portray heroic icons imo.

 

Hell even the Blip only remains because Tony was so selfish he had to have the 5 years and his little girl exist be put above removing all the horror the blip must surely have caused to so many all over the world. Keeping that Blip was such a selfish act on Starks part it is beyond any atrocity committed by any other in all of the MCU.

 

A bit off topic, but I find this line of thought quite disturbing. First off, you should clarify if you are going by the movie, or by the source material, as they are not the same. Secondly, if you want to split hairs, Ultron was an AI, able to make its own thoughts and decisions. Where it gets murky is the law as well as its enforcement to such beings, as you are applying real world context and morals to a work of fiction. If such things were true in the real world, I imagine there would be laws created to deal with such instances. 

 

But broadly painting it with the brush of "Tony made it, his fault, he's responsible", could also be applied to the real world bill gates and say "this man is responsible for all cybercrime, so punish him accordingly." Even though I personally think that is ridiculous, akin to holding every weapon and gun manufacturer responsible for how their products are used. And I would ask if you have given thought to whom would be enforcing such rules? And who would then be governing and enforcing them in turn, and so on.

 

I suppose my point here is, such leapfrogging in thought has led to some very terrible things in the real world, and any such discussions of those would hardly be suitable for these forums.

 

Just my two cents on it. 

 

TLDR - It is a fallacy to apply real world morals, standards, and laws to a fictional setting where that setting could have beings, situations, and exceptions that the real world does not.

[Ghost]

10 hours ago, Monos King said:

I'm debating whether or not to let this thread devolve into "Determing Whether or not we're actually Heroes". 

Everything doesnt have to be so serious, ALL THE TIME

[BZRKR]

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I get it given the source material of CoH, but at the end of the day it is a video game where people get to CHOOSE their powers. When that is the reality, there needs to be some semblance of balance.

"Perfectly balanced, as all things should be." 

Heh, sorry couldn't resist 😁

 

While I think "Is the game too easy" is a different question than "Is the game balanced", there's no need to die on that hill. We have had Cobalt Arachne drop by and let us know that the Devs have built and are testing new ways to provide us with more challenging content without taking anything away from what is currently available. That makes me happy to be patient, and excited to test what makes it to the Beta server.