Focused Feedback: Electrical Blast Revamp

[aethereal]

Hmmm, I did get a case where as far as I could tell, a fully drained Nebel Elite Oberst attacked me while he had 0 endurance.  It wasn't while I was explicitly trying to test sapping, so I have nothing but my having just used Short Circuit and then Charged Bolts, glancing at him, thinking, "Oh, he's out," and switching targets, only to have him whack me.  But after that, from the ground, I watched him, and it was several more seconds before he got any endurance back.

 

It's possible that he briefly had endurance and then used it in the process of attacking me, but I didn't see his blue bar show anything.

 

EDIT:  My best guess is he attacked me with this power:  https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=5thcolumn.fifth_column_lt_boss_solider_ranged.rifle_butt which costs 0 endurance (on prod as well, not just beta).

Edited November 13, 2021 by aethereal

[aethereal]

Is this intentional/correct?

 

I see two different recovery debuffs in Short Circuit on beta, one for 5s and one for 10s.

 

The patch notes don't mention any changes to the recovery debuff on Short Circuit.

 

CoD for live shows a single 10s, 100% (unenhanced) Recovery Debuff.

 

(Ah, nevermind, I figured it out, it's the Shocked special line -- presumably conditional on getting the Shocked proc, which is not shown in the detailed info.  And enhanced from its base 40% due to my endmod enhancement.)

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by aethereal

[DarknessEternal]

7 hours ago, Replacement said:

It's also really helpful to power analyze and monitor their Endurance and Recovery when testing. A lot of times where they will activate a power, it's because their Recovery stat is flickering  - meaning not floored, which means they WILL eventually gain a tick, which immediately goes to their queued power before it is possible to sap it.

(This is why -recovery is more important for maintaining an existing Sap).

I'm reasonably sure this is what I'm seeing.  Thanks for the explanation.

[Golden Azrael]

Rev-evolution!

 

Electricity is BACK!

 

Short Circuit has been transformed!  Instant vicious and nasty attack!  Instead of a wait and face plant power.

Shock?!  Shockingly good.  I'm not sure how it works.  But I love it.

 

The set seems to be quicker, more bite, more damage.  More end drain.  More consistent.  MORE 'glued together.'  It plays better overall.  More momentum.  I even use Tesla Cage more.

 

And the toggling of the pet?  About bleedin' time. 😛  Makes a massive difference not have to recast...and recast...and recast...and...

 

Electricity has gone from being a scratchy power of scritchy damage to an Emperor Palpatine world of pain.

 

Under this kind of barrage?  I think Luke would re-consider his choice to join the darkside.  'Ahh....AHHH...not the face...where...do...I...sign....'

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

On 11/8/2021 at 1:41 PM, Keleko said:

Electric Blast is almost there.  VS is worth taking now.  It's a different take on a damage aura, and I like the new version.  Shocked is a good and flavorful mechanic for the set.  It's certainly more interesting than just adding more damage.

 

The one thing missing is a good ST non-snipe attack.  It only has one high damage ST attack, and that is the snipe.  Outside of that you have the T1 and T2 blasts and Tesla Cage.  While TC procs well, it is very weak compared to other sets with a ST hold attack (Dark, Ice).  Yes, Tesla Cage is "different" now with the chaining, but I really didn't notice it when I tested it out.  I feel it should get bumped to do high damage to the primary target to match up with the Dark and Ice attacks.  Electric really could use that one more high damage attack above the T1/T2 damage rate.  Every other blaster set has 2 high damage ST attacks, and Electric is hurt in single target by not having that.

 

An alternative to boosting Tesla Cage damage is to boost Lightning Bolt damage instead.  Dark Blast has that with Gloom (though it is DoT).  But, Dark Blast gets 3 bigger ST attacks, too, because Petrifying Gaze also has good damage.

 

This.

 

The perennial problem of the 'missing' high dam burst attack from elec.  Short Circuit goes some way to filling that void with it's faster and arresting performance.  But a bigger single target hitter between L Bolt and Snipe?  *(Note: Sentinel gets that 'high damage' single target Lightning attack.  It's notable by it's absence from Elec Blaster primary.

 

I'd make Tesla Cage that missing '3rd' single target 'high' damage attack.  I looked for its influence.  But other than holding and buying me a second or two vs some bigger hitting mobs, I couldn't quite make out it's influence.  (I did read the description of it.)

 

One interesting idea might be to have that High Dam Single Target attack from Sentinel...that blasts the mob with high damage and this activates the Tesla Cage!?  You hit them that hard with a 'construction' blast and form a Tesla Cage to hold them.  A two in one power.  Be different.

 

Make the 'chain' effect more apparent?  A more excitable 'faraday' cage.  High damage?  Yes.  So it's a legitimate 'tier 3' style burst damage hold.  Be a bit unique that?  Maybe a 'high' damage over time?  (Like Freezing touch?  Or chilling embrace?  And/or allow it to proc' to 'cage' nearby foes with some splash damage and splash holds.  (A bit like the cage proc on the Incarnate Ion blast power tier 4 radial.)

 

The set isn't far away and is great fun to play.  My recently 'pimped out' L50 Elec Elec blaster will 'love' these changes.

 

Azrael.

[SuperPlyx]

Question, on a Electric Blast / Electric Affinity Corruptor the pet window does not show Voltaic Sentinel but does show the Galvanic Sentinel:

 

The one with no name in the pic is Voltaic Sentinel. 

 

Is this how it is supposed to work?

I was unsure and thought I would ask.

[Glacier Peak]

57 minutes ago, SuperPlyx said:

Question, on a Electric Blast / Electric Affinity Corruptor the pet window does not show Voltaic Sentinel but does show the Galvanic Sentinel:

 

The one with no name in the pic is Voltaic Sentinel. 

 

Is this how it is supposed to work?

I was unsure and thought I would ask.

Yes, VS is untargetable.

[SuperPlyx]

That's gonna take some getting used to...having one in pet window and one that's not.

Since they both ranged pets and most of the time behind you it's nice to see 'em in pet window to see if they even still there.

[Glacier Peak]

2 minutes ago, SuperPlyx said:

That's gonna take some getting used to...having one in pet window and one that's not.

Since they both ranged pets and most of the time behind you it's nice to see 'em in pet window to see if they even still there.

I believe this is a constraint of the game engine? Being untargetable means that, both by the player and enemies. I also believe there is a command in the dev console (for those who run their own servers) that allows the player to target untargetable entities. All that to say, yes, I believe it is working as intended.

[GetRidOfWires]

I did a quick run with an Elec/Elec Blaster in PI.

1. I agree with what others have said here, Voltaic Sent is pretty useless since every mez drops the toggle, no matter how brief the mez lasts. Maybe it's useful on other ATs, but I wouldn't pick it for my Blasters in its current form. It's not all that powerful anyway, I don't see why the toggle drop is needed.
2. The Shocked mechanic is good, I think it is balanced correctly.
3. I like Devices for my Blasters, did any of the changes to Elec powers get transferred to Taser? 

[oedipus_tex]

I love what y'all are doing for the set, but I am going to agree that toggle dropping from getting mezzed is not a change I love.

 

I am excited that you are encouraging new build strategies. However, I'd like to see the direction for powersets with vulnerable mezz toggles to trend more toward suppression on mezz versus a full detoggle. 

 

I have a lot of experience with mezz detoggling on powers like Arctic Air, Conductive Aura, etc. These are control powers that in theory should contribute survivability. However there is so much mezz out there that a source of mezz protection becomes vital to enjoyment. The problem is fixable with a particular build, but then character's journey becomes super fixated on fixing this issue just to make a key power basically function. 

 

In the case of Voltaic Sentinel specifically, this is a power that previously would not detoggle but now will. This is a whole rethink of Electric Blast builds, trying to build them the way I would an Ice Controller for example. I think a full detoggle is too large a punishment. I'd rather retain this power as a simple click if it comes to it. I'm not against there being at least some powers that detoggle on mezz, but I'd like the build to not have to focus so intensely on fixing this hurdle just so the character can perform. 

 

Thanks for providing a chance to give feedback and your hard work on the set.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[Wavicle]

12 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

I love what y'all are doing for the set, but I am going to agree that toggle dropping from getting mezzed is not a change I love.

 

I am excited that you are encouraging new build strategies. However, I'd like to see the direction for powersets with vulnerable mezz toggles to trend more toward suppression on mezz versus a full detoggle. 

 

I have a lot of experience with mezz detoggling on powers like Arctic Air, Conductive Aura, etc. These are control powers that in theory should contribute survivability. However there is so much mezz out there that a source of mezz protection becomes vital to enjoyment. The problem is fixable with a particular build, but then character's journey becomes super fixated on fixing this issue just to make a key power basically function. 

 

In the case of Voltaic Sentinel specifically, this is a power that previously would not detoggle but now will. This is a whole rethink of Electric Blast builds, trying to build them the way I would an Ice Controller for example. I think a full detoggle is too large a punishment. I'd rather retain this power as a simple click if it comes to it. I'm not against there being at least some powers that detoggle on mezz, but I'd like the build to not have to focus so intensely on fixing this hurdle just so the character can perform. 

 

Thanks for providing a chance to give feedback and your hard work on the set.

 

 

All control sets, and also electrical blast in particular, have methods of preventing enemy action. Also, brake frees are a thing.You have the tools to prevent yourself from getting mezzed in the first place. Use them.

[oedipus_tex]

38 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

All control sets, and also electrical blast in particular, have methods of preventing enemy action. Also, brake frees are a thing.You have the tools to prevent yourself from getting mezzed in the first place. Use them.

 

 

Getting mezzed is a major issue for Ice Control, so much so that it demands its own topic. Needless to say "Break Frees are a thing" doesn't scratch the surface of the issue. 

 

The issue with these toggles is the burden is not worth the payoff. Seeds of Confusion, for example, doesn't shut off just because caster got mezzed. You can fix detoggles by fixating on detoggles; it becomes the whole strategy of the build. Electric Blast has never had to do that before and IMO should not have to now.

Edited November 14, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, oedipus_tex said:

Electric Blast has never had to do that before and IMO should not have to now.

 

Conversely, no Blast set had a power that keeps attacking while you're mezzed (Defiance notwithstanding) except for Electric, and now it's in the same boat everyone else has always been in.

[oedipus_tex]

19 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

 

Conversely, no Blast set had a power that keeps attacking while you're mezzed (Defiance notwithstanding) except for Electric, and now it's in the same boat everyone else has always been in.

 

 

Fire Rain, Ice Storm and Blizzard continue to attack even if the caster is mezzed. They aren't mobile, but it's always been the case that Fire, Ice, and Electric deal some of their damage with pets. Carrion Creepers and Tornado are examples of untargetables on other ATs that continue to attack. Gun Drone is a Blaster secondary example. As far as I am aware this is the first time a damaging pseudo pet that is shut down by mezz. Nature Affinity has a buff pet this happens with and it is a bit of an anomaly.

 

IMO this power should remain a clickable unless turning it into a toggle is actually intended to be a penalty. I don't get the sense that that is the intent.

Edited November 14, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[Wavicle]

4 minutes ago, oedipus_tex said:

 

 

Fire Rain, Ice Storm and Blizzard continue to attack even if the caster is mezzed. They aren't mobile, but it's always been the case that Fire, Ice, and Electric deal some of their damage with pets. Carrion Creepers and Tornado are examples of untargetables on other ATs that continue to attack. Gun Drone is a Blaster secondary example. As far as I am aware this is the first time a damaging pseudo pet that is shut down by mezz. Nature Affinity has a buff pet this happens with and it is a bit of an anomaly.

 

IMO this power should remain a clickable unless turning it into a toggle is actually intended to be a penalty. I don't get the sense that that is the intent.

 

The rains simply finish their cast, that's not really the same thing. I did forget about the Gun Drone.

[Zepp]

I haven't quite got a build to solo DE GMs in Peregrine (having trouble zeroing out their Recovery, even with Mind secondary), but I am getting closer. I may need to choose a better secondary or a more endurance-drain focused build.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Zepp

[aethereal]

I presume that the toggle for Voltaic Sentinel does something like refreshes a timer on the pet being alive.  Doesn't appear that the info is in the CoD version of the power (even with the alpha settings turned on), so I can't check for sure.

 

If so, maybe a compromise?  Could we make it so that getting mezzed causes the pet to vanish if the mez isn't promptly broken?  This gives a chance for people to make skill plays with breakfrees or whatever, and potentially reduces the annoyance of "I get mezzed for one second, lose my sentinel, in ten seconds I retoggle it only to get mezzed again" stuff.

 

My thought for how this would work (obviously I'm not sure if this actually works with the tech):

 

The pet lasts a fairly long time (10s or so) without needing to be refreshed by the toggle.

The toggle is suppressed, not switched off, by mez.

But if the pet is desummoned (which happens after 10s of suppression), its on-banish effect forces the toggle into cooldown (would also happen for other reasons that caused the pet to go away, but since the pet is not targetable, there are few of those)

 

So the upshot is, if you get mezzed, your buddy helps you out for a few seconds while you reach for your breakfree or maybe Iron Will from Martial Combat or yell for your teammate to Clear Mind you, and if you successfully get out of jail in those few seconds, your buddy sticks around.  If not, it vanishes and you have a ten second timeout before you can summon it again.

Edited November 15, 2021 by aethereal

[Sovera]

I don't grap why there is a schism between defensive and offensive toggles. Defensive toggles suppress when CCed. Offensive toggles drop and need to be retoggled.

 

Why? What does distinction add? What's it's purpose? What does it add to the game?

 

Because-it-has-always-been-like-that needs to be looked at.

[lightpunch]

I'm intrigued about how Elec plays on Corruptors now. Anyone seeing/experiencing any potential for good synergy between Shock and Scourge?  It feels like they'd support each other well (elec attacks lowering health and endurance, eventually Scourge kicks in while the potential for Shock goes up too), but maybe in practice it isn't a noticeable or significant synergy.

[SuperPlyx]

4 hours ago, lightpunch said:

Anyone seeing/experiencing any potential for good synergy between Shock and Scourge? 

Did a few kills on test with elec/elec Corr and when they both kick in it is very nice.

Maybe it's just me not paying attention, but Scourge doesn't seem to be kicking in as much as usual....but I have always been unhappy with how often Scourge kicks in.

 

And hey you get 2 Sentinels with this combo.

 

Quick note/question....Scourge is a clickable link in combat chat roll, Shocked is also in brackets but is not clickable, should it be?

[DarknessEternal]

More Tesla Cage feedback.

 

AoE attacks need to add Static Charges.  It's a paradox to have single target attacks convert another single target attack into an AoE attack.  If there are many enemies, you aren't using single target attacks from Electric Blast, it has 3 other AoEs.  If there is only one enemy, you don't get Tesla Cage to jump to anything.

 

This is just a nonsense design that is meaningless.  If the point is to use Tesla Cage in an AoE scenario, it has to get built up with AoEs. 

[GetRidOfWires]

Mastermind pets don't vanish if the MM gets mez'd. Neither does Gun Drone, or Trip Mine, or any of the Traps gizmos. I think it's too much of a pain to keep retoggling Sparky, since it doesn't go away with the power as is pre-revamp. I don't generally pick Beta Decay for the same reason. The benefit does not outweigh the PITA aspect. I play to relax and have fun, not to be frustrated. Make Sparky more like Gun Drone: able to Tank to a certain extent, and that would be a better capability.

[oedipus_tex]

10 hours ago, Sovera said:

I don't grap why there is a schism between defensive and offensive toggles. Defensive toggles suppress when CCed. Offensive toggles drop and need to be retoggled.

 

Why? What does distinction add? What's it's purpose? What does it add to the game?

 

Because-it-has-always-been-like-that needs to be looked at.

 

I don't know the team's true rubric, but I'm familiar with the code side of it.

 

By default, all powers detoggle on mezz. A flag can be added by the power designer to prevent the detoggle. The power designer has to decide on their own whether the power is a "defensive power" and should get that treatment. The Blaster power Cauterizing Aura is a damage aura that is also a heal/end battery. It suppresses rather than detoggles on mezz. The Nature Affinity power Lifegiving Spores is a pure heal and endurance recovery power, but it detoggles rather than suppresses.

 

So, there is no strict consistency. In the case of this power, I think a click is more appropriate and consistent.

Edited November 16, 2021 by oedipus_tex

[ScarySai]

Honestly, if the single target damage on tesla cage gets bumped up a lot, be it a hilariously roided out shock proc or a base damage buff, I'd call the set perfect.

 

Though, aoe proccing static would also be very nice. Hey, one down.

Edited November 16, 2021 by ScarySai