Now that ASF went live, what do you think of it?

[Zhym]

52 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

2 hours ago, Zhym said:

I'd really like a way to do a solo "narrative run."  I tried running it solo with my IO'd, all-T4 incarnate...and got as far as Apex.  That was it for me; no amount of Lore pets, envenomed daggers, or anything else I had in my arsenal could put a dent in him.   (I'm actually writing this while stuck in that part of the mission waiting for the timer to expire, just to see what happens.  ETA: What happens is you bounce back to your own dimension to continue beating up Golden Roller.  So at least not being able to beat Ajax doesn't mean losing the whole SF.)

 

May I ask what the settings were and what toon you were using?

 

Villainous, -1/x1, with a DP/MC Blaster.   Musculature Core Alpha, Void Core Judgment, Diamagnetic Radial Interface, Arachnos Core Lore, Barrier Core Destiny, Assault Core Hybrid.   Defense when not in combat (i.e., Stealth at full boost) is about 49%/28.5%/28% Ranged/Melee/AoE (which I swear looks lower than from before the patch, but I hadn't played this toon recently before the patch, so maybe that's what it always was), Smashing resistance at 43%.  Like I said—not a min/maxed toon by any means, but he usually does damage fast enough that his defenses are good enough for most content.  And he's tons of fun to play.

 

I suppose I could have tried with a stalker or tank, but there seemed to be a few places that ignored team size (I'm thinking the first mission in particular) so I wanted some decent AoE.  

 

BTW, I finally gave up on soloing the arc when I got to Ripplesurge.  It was healing all the damage I could do to it once my Lore pets timed out.  Maybe smarter play (or loading up on boosts, empowerments, and Super Insps before I started) would have helped, but by that time I wasn't really having as much fun with the arc anyway (and figured there was no way I'd be able to handle Rodney or Midas when their turns came around).  

 

I did get far enough to have a chat with Professor Echo to find out what that was all about, though. 

 

Anyway, I realize that this is mostly a "me" thing—my toons aren't powerful enough to solo most TFs, so there's no reason he should be able to do this one, either.  But it would be nice to have a way for a squishy to see all the content in a TF at a leisurely pace somehow; I wouldn't even care if it didn't count for rewards, etc.

[InvaderStych]

28 minutes ago, Zhym said:

Villainous, -1/x1, with a DP/MC Blaster.   Musculature Core Alpha, Void Core Judgment, Diamagnetic Radial Interface, Arachnos Core Lore, Barrier Core Destiny, Assault Core Hybrid.   Defense when not in combat (i.e., Stealth at full boost) is about 49%/28.5%/28% Ranged/Melee/AoE (which I swear looks lower than from before the patch, but I hadn't played this toon recently before the patch, so maybe that's what it always was), Smashing resistance at 43%.  Like I said—not a min/maxed toon by any means, but he usually does damage fast enough that his defenses are good enough for most content.  And he's tons of fun to play.

 

Oh, yeah, no.  My Fire/MC is far and away my favorite and most played toon, but there's no way I'd pick it to try to solo ASF.  Mine isn't min/max'd either, but Martial is one of the most fun sets in the whole game, imo.  They build great for solo play, especially with Inner Will, but mine folds like origami paper against strong AVs solo.  Working up an alternate build with team support to lean upon in mind and keeping the spirit of the original build in slot one (with some minor changes, maybe) for more general use. It's actually sort of nice to have a reason to re-work the toon a bit.

 

28 minutes ago, Zhym said:

BTW, I finally gave up on soloing the arc when I got to Ripplesurge.  It was healing all the damage I could do to it once my Lore pets timed out.  Maybe smarter play (or loading up on boosts, empowerments, and Super Insps before I started) would have helped, but by that time I wasn't really having as much fun with the arc anyway (and figured there was no way I'd be able to handle Rodney or Midas when their turns came around).  

 

Honestly, Ripplesurge on the solo run was the most hectic of the fights.  Rodney hits like a truck full of trucks, and I had to kite the battle where it is him and Zoe until all the adds were gone, then I could focus.  But I had the most trouble with Ripple on that run because of his pets.  Still though, on a blaster?  Not sure I would have made it that far with mine. You are a more bold human than I. 🙂

 

28 minutes ago, Zhym said:

Anyway, I realize that this is mostly a "me" thing—my toons aren't powerful enough to solo most TFs, so there's no reason he should be able to do this one, either.  But it would be nice to have a way for a squishy to see all the content in a TF at a leisurely pace somehow; I wouldn't even care if it didn't count for rewards, etc.

 

Good point, but sort of a challenge in ways.  On the one hand it's possible to duo-trio a run like this, though that doesn't grant the other players access to all of the dialog/text as hit happens.  That's also dependent on finding willing folks to join a casual pace, read stuff run. Many players have multiple AT choices on hand to give it ago, but I also get that some (myself included) really only play 1-3 ATs primarily and folk's favorites might not be the "Solo Challenge" type.

 

Not really sure what could/should be done for a solution.  For the moment maybe we just need some willing "Tour Guides" for "Narrative Runs" where someone who wants to read through the missions keeps the star and the "Guides" are there knowing it'll be a slower run, but an easy DSO at the end.

 

Sometimes there's a people solution, to what looks like technology problem. 🤷‍♂️

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by InvaderStych
a little clarity

[Zhym]

21 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

Not really sure what could/should be done for a solution.  For the moment maybe we just need some willing "Tour Guides" for "Narrative Runs" where someone who wants to read through the missions keeps the star and the "Guides" are there knowing it'll be a slower run, but an easy DSO at the end.

 

That would work, if there were people patient enough to run them.  Still, my "run" today involved doing the first two or three missions, making lunch, doing another mission, going for a walk, doing another couple of missions, then making dinner...you get the idea.  No one in the game is going to put up with that kind of schedule.

 

The technology solution I'd like (which I realize may not be possible given the state of the code) is a "tourist mode" for TFs and SFs, where the player's notoriety settings are in effect.  Dial all the AVs down to EBs, and I think I could make it through okay.  Turn the rewards down accordingly (half merits and no D-Origin option?) and I'd be more than happy with it. 

 

I am curious why the devs decided to implement this as a SF instead of a story arc, since the length and detail would seem to work well with a story arc.

[Bill Z Bubba]

6 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

I on my Ill troller survived better than any of the brutes, only because of PA. 

I watched them get one shotted by the alpha from the Goldbrickers and Ripplesurge.

Having a hybrid team would be key, melee with support, debuffers, etc. So old school teamwork.

I too would like to try it on one of my tanks, the -res and the high to hit is going to cut through mostly everything though.

 

My SR tank only died when I didn't get out of the yellow doom blasts in time.

 

It's really solid content if a bit on the long side.

[The_Warpact]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

My SR tank only died when I didn't get out of the yellow doom blasts in time.

 

It's really solid content if a bit on the long side.

I was wondering if the def numbers were high enough that it might skirt the attacks.

[Glacier Peak]

3 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

I was wondering if the def numbers were high enough that it might skirt the attacks.

They probably were, but the way that the beam attack is set up, players are informed of it's impending activation. So leaving the area/breaking LOS and I think confusing? the target will prevent the attack, but it is designated autohit.

[Ironblade]

On the plus side:

The content is top notch - the story, the dialog, the humor.  Absolutely fantastic.

 

Minuses:

The rewards seem a bit stingy.  They'll need to datamine how long it takes to complete once people get a little more familiar with it.  And I don't mean the speedrunners; I mean the average time.

 

Some of the badges are difficult to get due to straight-up bugs.  Becky sometimes decides to walk through the wall and disappear, or gets lost when you go through a door.  The blue patch in the Midas fight is buggy.

 

Overall:

I rate it a B+.

It's not perfect, but it's way better than the average task force.  It shouldn't be too hard to get it to just about perfect with a bit of patching.

 

Note:  I've run it four times so far.  Once at base difficulty and three times at the second setting (i.e. minimum to get the optional badges).

[Glacier Peak]

7 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

On the plus side:

The content is top notch - the story, the dialog, the humor.  Absolutely fantastic.

 

Minuses:

The rewards seem a bit stingy.  They'll need to datamine how long it takes to complete once people get a little more familiar with it.  And I don't mean the speedrunners; I mean the average time.

 

Some of the badges are difficult to get due to straight-up bugs.  Becky sometimes decides to walk through the wall and disappear, or gets lost when you go through a door.  The blue patch in the Midas fight is buggy.

 

Overall:

I rate it a B+.

It's not perfect, but it's way better than the average task force.  It shouldn't be too hard to get it to just about perfect with a bit of patching.

 

Note:  I've run it four times so far.  Once at base difficulty and three times at the second setting (i.e. minimum to get the optional badges).

I'm of a similar opinion on content, however, I thought the rewards were plentiful. On the lowest difficulty setting, I walked away with incarnate threads, two purple recipes dropped, two veteran levels, and a snazy DSO enhancement from the reward table. 

[brasilgringo]

It was painfully long and bad rewards. 'Nuff said.

[Chronicler J]

Pretty casual, overall. Farmed the hell out of Astral merits on Relentless. Easiest 2 reward merits per AV in my life.

 

Was hoping Bonus Boss would be harder; main disappointment besides King Midas being a meme of a fight.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Chronicler J

[Shred Monkey]

5 hours ago, BurtHutt said:

Ran this with a PUG on regular difficulty. I was not team lead so it is difficult to read all of the material. I really dislike this and mentioned this before on the last Page feedback. In CoX, less is more. 

 

 

5 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

My solo run was in Open Beta.  The amount of time taken isn't really indicative as I stretched it over a few login sessions and took extra time to read.  The Vanguard Ripple was changed between that run and release, so it might be worth me revisiting that fight under the same parameters and see if it is still do-able.

 

FWIW: Psi/SD/Bod scrapper T4: Musc Radial, Degen Core, Melee (resist side) Radial(?), Rebirth Radial, Robo Drones Radial.

 

Villainous +1x4 for everything up to Ripplesurge, then +0x1 from that point forward. Probably overkill to have dropped it, but I wasn't there to break the toon, lol. Skipped AV fights in the cavern Ripple. Easy Mode and I'm not ashamed of it.  Wasn't for bragging rights, was for proofreading. 🙂 

 

No reason to torture ourselves at +4 on Villainous just to read the narrative. 😄

 

Yeah... I ran it solo (+0x1) on my energy/energy stalker before teaming just so I could stop and read stuff.  It also let me learn the fights rather then blasting through them all so fast I don't know why we won.  Final mission was a near stopper.  But after sleeping on it overnight I came back with a different set of inspirations and hybrid power and did much better.

 

I like the content, though I've gotten spoiled by the shorter TFs so this one felt like it was 1 or 2 missions too long.  The mission with the car felt like an entire TF by itself.  I really liked that DE ripple zone.  I wanted to get finished so I left as soon as I hit the objectives, but I really wanted to stay and clear it just for fun.  Lots of EB's and I think I saw a monster in there.

 

In summery, great job... more please, thanks!

 

[TraumaTrain]

I like it. Ran it this afternoon for my Something Wicked Sundays team. Did it on Villainous setting at +2. Lots of cool new mobs and AVs. Two hours, 15 minutes. I think we had a half dozen deaths.

 

I think my favorite mission is the Goldbricker fight club.

 

We got the BFF badge thanks to @Glacier Peak 's instructions. Fort Knox and Who Smelt It Dealt It badges are sure things.

 

I streamed the whole thing. If you want to check that out, go to Twitch and search for TraumaTrainRich.

 

Overall: very enjoyable, if hectic and busy, challenge.

[Snarky]

Why they did not split this into two And give the master badge for completion of both parts I will never know.  
 

While the work on this issue was exemplary and the execution of the content was beautiful the lack of learning of lessons from CoH past…..just sad.    Know your own history.  Stop making mistakes of past Dev teams that have to be fixed later.  No one wants a four hour event.  No one.

 

I am half terrified the Devs will make a no travel power badge for Dr Q based on the development concepts implemented in the Aeon.  Again, incredible work.  Too much for one sitting. Old Positron with Christmas lights and presents galore.  

[Clave Dark 5]

6 hours ago, Zhym said:

But it would be nice to have a way for a squishy to see all the content in a TF at a leisurely pace somehow; I wouldn't even care if it didn't count for rewards, etc.

I'm thinking this is one of the biggest problems CoH has: only the leaders get the story.  I was realizing that I've missed much of the story and lore in CoH because I PUG most of the time, I'm not too much of a solo player.  Plus it's obviously been a plague for any writing of note in the MA.

 

I hope the current devs are looking at this.  I don't know what you might do to solve it.

[Carnifax]

7 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

My SR tank only died when I didn't get out of the yellow doom blasts in time.

 

It's really solid content if a bit on the long side.

The booms were the only thing which killed my Rad/MA as well. Which I did on purpose cos I wanted to parse them out. Which lead to this hilarity. 30,000 damage in one second (well 5 really since I graph at 5 second intervals). 

 

Oh Ripplesurge killed me as well actually, not sure how. I was mostly looking for instances of unresistable -Res in the TF. Didn't see some but I'm suspicious of whatever it is Ripple does.

 

Edit: Looks like "Unstable Ripple Rift" did for me, dumped 6,000+ damage on me very quickly too

 

Edit2: Ah-ha. Unstable has a weird damage type. That'd do it

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by Carnifax

[nihilii]

I went through it blind and solo at +0/x8 so I could take my time and appreciate everything. What an amazing piece of content. I like that I don't understand half of what is posted in this thread either, I'm guessing there's significant content changes once you raise the new difficulty settings.

Also, the writer deserves an award for coming up with the first instance of an actually funny "boomer" joke in human history.

 

[Parabola]

3 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I'm thinking this is one of the biggest problems CoH has: only the leaders get the story.  I was realizing that I've missed much of the story and lore in CoH because I PUG most of the time, I'm not too much of a solo player.  Plus it's obviously been a plague for any writing of note in the MA.

 

I hope the current devs are looking at this.  I don't know what you might do to solve it.

I've been kicking around the idea of asking for a 'mission text' chat channel that has all the contact text and any clue text in it. Then you'd be able to have a window open that you could read as you went along to keep up with the story. Even soloing I find myself clicking through the contact text to get on with things and would love to be able to catch up as I'm traveling or fighting.

[Ruin Mage]

7 hours ago, Ironblade said:

The rewards seem a bit stingy.  They'll need to datamine how long it takes to complete once people get a little more familiar with it.  And I don't mean the speedrunners; I mean the average time.

 

Some of the badges are difficult to get due to straight-up bugs.  Becky sometimes decides to walk through the wall and disappear, or gets lost when you go through a door.  The blue patch in the Midas fight is buggy.

They'll be looking at the merits for a future reward pass from what I've seen. But 40 merits on its own is nice. It's not Tinpex fast for 80, but it's a good start. Plus all the Astrals/Empyreans on higher difficulties. The badges will be getting fixed come Tuesday, or some are.

 

 

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

No one wants a four hour event.  No one.

The only time I've gotten close to 4 hours on the ASF is Relentless on beta. You can do some REALLY big skips in certain missions.

Also, I'd do a 4 hour tf if it was fun/challenging.

 

 

6 hours ago, Chronicler J said:

Was hoping Bonus Boss would be harder;

Not sure how harder you'd want it because on paper it's pretty scary. One of the teams that completed it, yours in fact, had it pretty good even with extra settings. However, just because you managed it does not mean everyone else will be able to. It has a lot going on, and not everyone will have the same team composition. If a team can execute it pretty well and keep an eye on each other, then yes it's doable.

(For context of those reading this post; There is an extra fight in Ripple 3 that you can do if you have the MoASF fight, but only on Relentless.)

random shit below;
If you take your time on the missions, then yes it will be long. However, nothing in the ASF is a kill all. Stealthing to final rooms is viable in the first 4-5 missions. 6&7 is where things will slow down a bit. Incan and ATT are blessings on any setting. Recall Friend is also a blessing. 

Personally, it's fine as-is in length given its no Dr. Q or Synapse with the same mission map 3-5 times in a row. The whole idea is splitting it into two different SFs is ludicrous, but people have long gotten used to sub-hour TFs or even sub-30 minute TFs. Not all TFs/SFs need to be done in under 30 minutes - though I believe it's manageable to get somewhere close to a 40 minute ASF.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Shadeknight

[Faultline]

1 hour ago, Carnifax said:

Oh Ripplesurge killed me as well actually, not sure how. I was mostly looking for instances of unresistable -Res in the TF. Didn't see some but I'm suspicious of whatever it is Ripple does.

 

Edit: Looks like "Unstable Ripple Rift" did for me, dumped 6,000+ damage on me very quickly too

 

Those are the death puddles left on the ground after a Shimmering Essence spawns, is left alone 30 seconds, and is absrbed by Ripplesurge. They don't spawn at all on Villanous. The blue orbs from the King Midas fight should be just as bad, and also don't spawn on the default difficulty setting.

[Faultline]

34 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

They'll be looking at the merits for a future reward pass from what I've seen. But 40 merits on its own is nice. It's not Tinpex fast for 80, but it's a good start. Plus all the Astrals/Empyreans on higher difficulties. The badges will be getting fixed come Tuesday, or some are.

 

The TF can be completed in as little as 27 minutes (actual datamined time) in the lowest difficulty, so the 40 merits aren't out of line; it'll go up some but those expecting 100+ merits at once on completion will probably be disappointed. On Relentless it can certainly take two hours, but then each AV drops 3 astral merits (5 astrals convert to 1 empyrean, 1 astral converts to 2 merits) so you're talking 6 extra merits per AV fight starting on the very first mission. Mission 5 alone has 12 AVs, that's 36 astrals / 7 empyreans / 72 merits right there. You can currenly start the ASF on Relentless, fight to mission 5, quit, and still walk away with the equivalent of 100 merits; if those were moved to mission completion instead, you would get nothing. Players will just need to get used to the idea of getting the reward over time during the course of the TF rather than a massive bulk payout in the end.

[Snarky]

27 minutes?   i saw (and listened on Discord) to a high end SG take an hour and a half on the mode up from easiest.  these were dialed in people with long running badger toons.  then the thing glitched on one badge and they headed in for a second round.  but PUGs can do it in 27 minutes?  

 

sure, okay.  i believe you.  of course.  you're a DEV. 

[Ruin Mage]

By lowest he means in Villanous or even just normal.

There is a LOT you can skip past, as stated. Stealthing ahead cuts down a lot of the time.

[Albion]

9 minutes ago, Snarky said:

27 minutes?   i saw (and listened on Discord) to a high end SG take an hour and a half on the mode up from easiest.  these were dialed in people with long running badger toons.  then the thing glitched on one badge and they headed in for a second round.  but PUGs can do it in 27 minutes?  

 

sure, okay.  i believe you.  of course.  you're a DEV. 

I have actually witnessed those fast runs, heck, a team even rolled with only four people, on relentless difficulty, doing challenges and the extra handicap of buffing enemies, and they pulled 47 minutes, I have also seen a not so hard run last five hours, the beauty of the ASF, is that the key element is the coordination, team play and at behavior, if you try and rush run it like any other content of the game and go in guns blazing (more so in the challenge modes) you gonna get screwed, if you stop, strategize, and focus on doing what your at should be doing (tanks ahead getting aggro, supports in the middle keeping everyone alive, ranged dps on the back smacking those buttons, etc) suddenly even the clusterf*ck of mobs that can melt you in a minute become doable. There is also the thing about people tailoring their builds, it is doable by any team and at composition thankfully, lot of care went into making sure of that, but building for it clearly will give an edge. Also if time is a concern you can pass over so many fights, there is options for everyone.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Albion

[Snarky]

40 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

By lowest he means in Villanous or even just normal.

There is a LOT you can skip past, as stated. Stealthing ahead cuts down a lot of the time.

sure.  we race the itf for 11-14 minute runs weekly.  top time is 4-7 minutes?  something like that.

 

that is not normal.  that is not "forming Dr. Q try for speed" in LFG.  that is not "aeon Relentless Badge run try for speed" in LFG.

 

If badges were not attached (you get the badge for ITF for a 5 min run) then your point would be valid.

 

But if you are a PUG player (as I was for a many many years) if you want those badges you are screwed.

 

I still remember an Old Posi from live that disintegrated.  I was trying to finish solo on a Blaster and kept trying to snipe the EB and escape down the elevator.  sad.  failure.  The Devs have created a new petri dish for many of these types of events to form.  

Edited November 29, 2021 by Snarky

[The_Warpact]

Just now, Snarky said:

 

But if you are a PUG player (as I was for a many many years) if you want those badges you are screwed.

Just say "No to PUG"...

 

On a serious note if they want those badges they can get help here, the badge channel, and some of the large SG/VG.

With a will there is a way ole Snark-a-roo.