Pet Upgrade Powers

[Tubalcain]

The upgrade powers masterminds use to upgrade their pets. Ya know. Train Beasts and Tame Beasts for Beast Master Masterminds for example?

 

Do something with them.

 

There's no reason to put any slots in them. Even just making it so they'll accept pet enhancements means you could put the defense and resistance aura enhancements on them instead of sacrificing pet slots to it. But you could go further with it and make sets specifically for these powers with their own effects. They could be as simple as more aura enhancements that give your pets bonuses while around you. You could go further and they could apply bonuses directly to the pet. Even further than that they could give bonuses specifically to the powers that upgrade power bestows.

 

[Glacier Peak]

I don't play Masterminds, so can you tell me what can be slotted in those pet upgrade powers?

[TheZag]

7 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I don't play Masterminds, so can you tell me what can be slotted in those pet upgrade powers?

 

Recharge reduction and endurance reduction.

[Outrider_01]

I'm under the impression they don't really buff the pets, they just unlock powers like going to visit a trainer which buff the pet. Actually buffs are from the secondary.

[SuggestorK]

Previous the last changes u needed em for those end and rech reducers as TheZag explained, so after MM got buffed (faster rech with less end) u ask for yet another buff.. im not against it, i like my MM alot, but it does come over the table a little greedy if viewed from a neutral position.

 

Im in the same Position not to know what to slot in em right now. but hell its just one slot that is not used .. like the one in Rest isnt for a long time.

 

A solution without a new round of power creep would be just removing those slots, or alternatively create a enhancement  proc that brings the pets on player lvl, its so annoying when joining teams that set to high diff and ur pets are basically doing no damage anymore cause they out of the lvl range. I know that basically give em more Power too but the -lvl  mechanic was not the best solution from beginning (same with fire imps from Controller/Dominator btw.) Same Proc could have therefore a slight damage reduction or HP reduction in it to compensate the result of more Power.

 

Example my lvl 50 (barring Incarnate Powers for better example)  Robot MM joins a team to run lvl 50 mission, foes set to +4 by team leader... so foes are lvl 54 while MM is 50 and in lvl range Big Bot is Lvl 50 so okay, tier 2 Protector Bots are lvl 49, so slighty out of lvl range reducing damage by a bit, but the 3 tier 1 Battle Drones are lvl 48 (thus fighting foes that are +6 to em) and doing practically no damage anymore (i seen damage numbers of 4-6 damage done to a foe) and they die if a foe just look at em which result in just not using them in these teams anymore.

[Greycat]

I'm not sure what you *would* enhance them with. Which is probably the biggest problem. At most, a 2-3 piece set with recharge and end reduction enhancements, which would be fairly limited in use (as even pet "sets" can be used not just by MMs but by most other pet powers.)

 

On the other hand, having two powers you don't really have to enhance means free slots to use elsewhere...

[wjrasmussen]

5 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I'm not sure what you *would* enhance them with. Which is probably the biggest problem. At most, a 2-3 piece set with recharge and end reduction enhancements, which would be fairly limited in use (as even pet "sets" can be used not just by MMs but by most other pet powers.)

 

On the other hand, having two powers you don't really have to enhance means free slots to use elsewhere...

Perhaps an new enc that gives the pets a new attack.

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, wjrasmussen said:

Perhaps an new enc that gives the pets a new attack.

 

But why not put that just into the pet, then?

[wjrasmussen]

7 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

But why not put that just into the pet, then?

Because those pet buff powers are adding abilities to the pet.

[SuggestorK]

53 minutes ago, wjrasmussen said:

Perhaps an new enc that gives the pets a new attack.

 I like that idea, doing different enhances.. 1 for a range 1 for a melee.. etc. , just the problem is u would need different animations for it and that for every possible MM primary.

[arcane]

Just pop your endurance redux IO in there and be eternally grateful you’ve got two potent abilities with no slot investment required. Your build just got easier.

[tidge]

The simplest change I would like is if we Masterminds could slot the Global enhancements for Henchmen (and pets) into the 'upgrade' powers, so that we can actually use our henchmen (and pets) slots to enhance specific features of them. As it is, so primaries that don't have a recharge-intensive summon have to burn enhancement spots in the henchmen powers to get the global bonuses.

[biostem]

It'd be interesting if you could slot in interrupt reduction enhancements into these powers to shorten the animations...

[arcane]

13 minutes ago, biostem said:

It'd be interesting if you could slot in interrupt reduction enhancements into these powers to shorten the animations...

Yeah that’s not what interrupt is tho

[biostem]

33 minutes ago, arcane said:

Yeah that’s not what interrupt is tho

I know the powers aren't interruptible... I'm saying the way they interact in this particular instance could change.  It's like saying, "it'd be interesting if you could slot damage enh's into the upgrade powers to further increase those pets' damage" - "but the upgrade powers don't do that" - this is a change I'm suggesting, not a description of what the powers currently do.

[plainguy]

On 12/6/2021 at 2:12 AM, SuggestorK said:

Previous the last changes u needed em for those end and rech reducers as TheZag explained, so after MM got buffed (faster rech with less end) u ask for yet another buff.. im not against it, i like my MM alot, but it does come over the table a little greedy if viewed from a neutral position.

 

Im in the same Position not to know what to slot in em right now. but hell its just one slot that is not used .. like the one in Rest isnt for a long time.

 

A solution without a new round of power creep would be just removing those slots, or alternatively create a enhancement  proc that brings the pets on player lvl, its so annoying when joining teams that set to high diff and ur pets are basically doing no damage anymore cause they out of the lvl range. I know that basically give em more Power too but the -lvl  mechanic was not the best solution from beginning (same with fire imps from Controller/Dominator btw.) Same Proc could have therefore a slight damage reduction or HP reduction in it to compensate the result of more Power.

 

Example my lvl 50 (barring Incarnate Powers for better example)  Robot MM joins a team to run lvl 50 mission, foes set to +4 by team leader... so foes are lvl 54 while MM is 50 and in lvl range Big Bot is Lvl 50 so okay, tier 2 Protector Bots are lvl 49, so slighty out of lvl range reducing damage by a bit, but the 3 tier 1 Battle Drones are lvl 48 (thus fighting foes that are +6 to em) and doing practically no damage anymore (i seen damage numbers of 4-6 damage done to a foe) and they die if a foe just look at em which result in just not using them in these teams anymore.

They clearly said that this buff was just a small fix and more was to come. Because there is a lot that was said and asked for and they realized they didn't give Masterminds much in the form up updates..  

 

[plainguy]

I will go one step further and say Masterminds should not have pet upgrade powers. It should be automatic.

What is basically being said is that for Masterminds they need to slot this power call upgrade to make their T1, T6 and T8 powers better.

I am expecting some rebuttal on this and can make my points when and if it happens.

Basically incorporate the Endurance cost for each upgrade for that level into the pet summoning cost and split it as you get access to the other Tier pets.. 

• Henchmen upgrade end costs have been reduced from 22.75 to 11.375
• Note: This were some quick low hanging changes to help Masterminds out a bit, we are currently investigating further improvements to Masterminds for the future

 

So on first pet upgrade you only have Tier 1 pets will cost and extra 11.375 in endurance cost. Once the Tier 2 pets arrive it could be split evenly or based on Pet Tier level, with the higher the level cost more.  I can see someone making an issues with this as some players might not summon all the pets so you are getting the upgrade cheaper, but again you don't have all your pets out. 

But WTF do you do with the 2 empty slots ?   pet centric powers or powers animating from pets ( think target drone here for example )
I would suggest a Pet only Build Up / AIM or that affects everyone at the T4 slot. I would say just make this build up or AIM type power temporarily remove the Level deficiency from the Pets or boost supremacy for them.  Again whatever works. 

The T8 could be some personal attack or group heal. Again whatever works.
Again suggestion and ideas. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tidge]

6 hours ago, plainguy said:

I will go one step further and say Masterminds should not have pet upgrade powers. It should be automatic.

What is basically being said is that for Masterminds they need to slot this power call upgrade to make their T1, T6 and T8 powers better.

 

As I have written many times, I'm in favor of the T4 (level 6, i have occasionally mistakenly referred to T6 when I meant level 6) that, FIRST upgrade be replaced with a recharge-intensive BUFF pet (not a henchman) and just bake that original upgrade into all the henchmen. I feel that the level 32 (Tier 9) power is fine to keep as is, simply because game balance would be affected over a wider range of content. The only levels of content that would be affected (to first order) with baking in the T4 upgrade would be before level 6.... and that would only be for one henchman (maybe 2 for some very low exemplared content).

 

A recharge-intensive buff pet could be tuned to the primary (there are plenty of already existing pet assets like drones, wisps, spiders, etc.) and could take those global pieces that many primaries have to slot into their pets.

 

 

[EyeLuvBooks]

Not sure if this is the right way to go, but I sure would like to see my MMs get some love. In many cases my T1 and T2 pets aren't worth summoning because they die so fast.

[Arbegla]

I think the first thing they could do is change the power to a PBAoE power, instead of a targetted AoE, so you can use the upgrade without having to select your pets, and therefore don't need to wait until they spawn completely. Adding anything else to it, might require a rework of the entire AT, as MMs can get very powerful with the right slotting and skillset.

[EyeLuvBooks]

3 minutes ago, Arbegla said:

I think the first thing they could do is change the power to a PBAoE power, instead of a targetted AoE, so you can use the upgrade without having to select your pets, and therefore don't need to wait until they spawn completely. Adding anything else to it, might require a rework of the entire AT, as MMs can get very powerful with the right slotting and skillset.

As powerful as any character can get with the right build, my concern is for the majority of the player base. I wonder if it's possible to see how many players actually use set enhancements and Hami-Os? Hmm.

 

My point is that just because YOU know how to set up the ultimate MM build does not make that the norm.

 

I have two pages of MMs and I never bother to bring them to some of the Incarnate trials because as I said before, most of them simply die. Without Group Fly, they're also useless for the first phase of the MSR.

[Arbegla]

I mean, MMs still have their secondary to fall back on in Incarnate Trials and the first phase of the MSR.

 

Having said that, the MM build I have can actually solo the MSR herself, so who needs a league when you can just do it?

[EyeLuvBooks]

12 minutes ago, Arbegla said:

I mean, MMs still have their secondary to fall back on in Incarnate Trials and the first phase of the MSR.

 

Having said that, the MM build I have can actually solo the MSR herself, so who needs a league when you can just do it?

And as I said before, I'm willing to bet folding money that you're in the minority.

 

As for the first bit...'MMs have their secondary to fall back on...' that's nice. So I create my character and then a good portion of its power is stripped away during certain missions or TFs? That sounds like loads of fun. I might suggest that Doms would enjoy this too. Just eliminate 2-4 powers from their primary the next time they do certain missions.

 

I sense pitchforks and torches in your future...

[Greycat]

Seeing this again... I'll say I kind of *like* having two powers I can kind of ignore slotting with. The way MMs were initially back on live, as I recall, we were *having* to slot them as the upgrades were pet by pet, not AOE. Having two right now that I can mostly ignore slotting means I have two levels where I can dedicate those slots to getting my pets fully slotted faster - I really look at them as "free slots next level" instead of another power splitting up an already limited supply.

[Uun]

I like the idea of making the two upgrades auto powers. Once you train those powers at lvl 6 and 32, they automatically get applied every time you summon your pets. I wouldn't care if they kept the same endurance cost (it could be added to the summon powers if auto powers can't have an endurance cost). It just seems illogical that you have to take an affirmative action to upgrade your pets every time you summon them.