Is defeat just an inconvenience?

[DougGraves]

The only place I can think of where defeat really matters is the end of the Posi 1 TF.

 

If you  team wipe on the door ambushes you have to go in and face 4 ambushes all at once.  It turns a challenge into a slog that can turn into multiple defeats.

[Glacier Peak]

The yellow mito bloom was a favorite of mine, when it happened, you knew it was all over. A yellow mito for every player in the zone. Whammy!

[Haijinx]

It depends on how many toggles you run.

[UltraAlt]

whoops forget about that

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by UltraAlt

[Glacier Peak]

3 hours ago, Haijinx said:

It depends on how many toggles you run.

Oh this is so true. Retoggling when you're 10 toggles deep is a real buzzkill.

[flinlock]

4 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

The yellow mito bloom was a favorite of mine, when it happened, you knew it was all over. A yellow mito for every player in the zone. Whammy!

I only did one Hami raid on live and this is how it ended. I still have a screenshot of the huge pile of hero corpses... 

[Glacier Peak]

Just now, flinlock said:

I only did one Hami raid on live and this is how it ended. I still have a screenshot of the huge pile of hero corpses... 

If that happened a GM had to reset the zone manually or it was no more Hami raids until they reset the servers.

[flinlock]

9 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

If that happened a GM had to reset the zone manually or it was no more Hami raids until they reset the servers.

Damn, player defeat was even consequential for the devs XD

 

Tangent, but... are Hami raids just stupidly easy now? I joined one in the Abyss tonight, and once we started it was over in less than a minute. I think I got three hits in. The one I did on live was in the Hive, I'm not sure if there's any difference between the two location... it was kinda disappointing to show up expecting a challenge and instead get a handout Hami-O. 

[DreadShinobi]

I don't really find myself needing to revive myself more often than 1 hour, ie it is rare to find myself on the floor when return to battle is off cooldown. So the full stack of large insps on revive is nice. 

[Ukase]

Just like in real life, on those occasions when a fist strikes my nose, it's a message. Didn't duck, telegraphed my blow - something went wrong. The brains sends a message to the face - "Ouch. Plan failed.  More adrenaline en route. Breathe. Focus." 

When I'm defeated, first - I ask myself about context. Am I level 5 helping someone with Among Friends in a level 50 mission? In that context, I think nothing of it. I wouldn't expect to have 2 attacks with 2 slots each in a level 50 mission and live. (unless I'm hiding somehow)

If I'm within a few levels of the mobs, there's a message. And the message is, I executed bad judgement. Poor decisions. Why did I fail? Stunned? Mezzed? What slots can help mitigate that? Blaster? Need more defense and more dps. What's the best way to do that? Procs? Leadership pool in lieu of teleport pool? If necessary. Fold Space is nifty, but it's not worth having to re-toggle. 

It's all a message, but you have to know the context. Obviously, it's just a game, and it's not going to cost me another quarter for 3 more lives. (hope some of you are old enough to understand that) 
But, it's still a message from the game telling you that you've zigged when you should have zagged. You under-estimated the npcs, or you've over-estimated your ability, or some combination of the two. Adjust the plan for your character, if you had one, and try again. 

There's no reason at all for a character to have the first debt badge by 50, unless they're in pursuit of a badge. Play smarter. 

Don't be THAT guy that thinks it's okay for a blaster to die. Over and over and over again. Don't be the guy that runs into the mobs just to inferno/nuke and make Rise of the Phoenix part of your attack chain, no matter how fun it is. It makes you look bad, and gives the undeserved reputation of "glass cannon" to blasters everywhere. Be a loose cannon, yes. But not a glass cannon. 

Those are the things that run through my head when I get defeated. 

[Ukase]

4 hours ago, flinlock said:

Damn, player defeat was even consequential for the devs XD

 

Tangent, but... are Hami raids just stupidly easy now? I joined one in the Abyss tonight, and once we started it was over in less than a minute. I think I got three hits in. The one I did on live was in the Hive, I'm not sure if there's any difference between the two location... it was kinda disappointing to show up expecting a challenge and instead get a handout Hami-O. 

It's not that they're easy. It's that they're well organized. Put an idiot in charge, or have half the league be afk and not heed instructions...it can get messy. 

[MoonSheep]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

Just like in real life, on those occasions when a fist strikes my nose, it's a message. Didn't duck, telegraphed my blow - something went wrong. The brains sends a message to the face - "Ouch. Plan failed.  More adrenaline en route. Breathe. Focus." 

When I'm defeated, first - I ask myself about context. Am I level 5 helping someone with Among Friends in a level 50 mission? In that context, I think nothing of it. I wouldn't expect to have 2 attacks with 2 slots each in a level 50 mission and live. (unless I'm hiding somehow)

If I'm within a few levels of the mobs, there's a message. And the message is, I executed bad judgement. Poor decisions. Why did I fail? Stunned? Mezzed? What slots can help mitigate that? Blaster? Need more defense and more dps. What's the best way to do that? Procs? Leadership pool in lieu of teleport pool? If necessary. Fold Space is nifty, but it's not worth having to re-toggle. 

It's all a message, but you have to know the context. Obviously, it's just a game, and it's not going to cost me another quarter for 3 more lives. (hope some of you are old enough to understand that) 
But, it's still a message from the game telling you that you've zigged when you should have zagged. You under-estimated the npcs, or you've over-estimated your ability, or some combination of the two. Adjust the plan for your character, if you had one, and try again. 

There's no reason at all for a character to have the first debt badge by 50, unless they're in pursuit of a badge. Play smarter. 

Don't be THAT guy that thinks it's okay for a blaster to die. Over and over and over again. Don't be the guy that runs into the mobs just to inferno/nuke and make Rise of the Phoenix part of your attack chain, no matter how fun it is. It makes you look bad, and gives the undeserved reputation of "glass cannon" to blasters everywhere. Be a loose cannon, yes. But not a glass cannon. 

Those are the things that run through my head when I get defeated. 

 

you do realise you’re allowed to have fun right?

Edited January 21, 2022 by MoonSheep

[Marshal_General]

You cannot step forward without defeat.

[Ukase]

11 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

you do realise you’re allowed to have fun right?

I don't really play for fun - I play for interest. What's interesting to me is figuring out strange things that most could not care less about. 

Can I make a character (non-inherent armor ATs - corruptor, blaster, Defender, Dominator, controller) just relying on drops, or just SOs. 

I don't think I've ever had fun - at least the fun I've had in a bar with friends, or with the guys on the football field. (though the latter is closer) 

For me, it's about seeing if I can make the character "super", or at least, more super than the last AT of the same type that I made. 

Getting defeated is just the games way of telling me I suck and need to do better. 

[Peacemoon]

On 1/19/2022 at 9:18 PM, Glacier Peak said:

Anyway, what's the impact to you upon being defeated?

I feel like I get slapped with a report that says “could do better.” And I try figure out how I can improve and if there’s any other strategies I could use to win. 
 

Also death should be an inconvenience, albeit not a massive one. One that interrupts your flow but doesn’t ruin your whole night. 

[Glacier Peak]

3 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

I feel like I get slapped with a report that says “could do better.” And I try figure out how I can improve and if there’s any other strategies I could use to win. 
 

Also death should be an inconvenience, albeit not a massive one. One that interrupts your flow but doesn’t ruin your whole night. 

In the scheme of game play, risk versus reward, that makes sense. 

[Spaghetti Betty]

I think it ultimately depends on who I'm playing. Personally, I don't play a whole lot of squishies, but I've recently found myself playing a DP/Kin Corr. I play (solo) all my toons at a minimum +0x5 while levelling and it's gotten to the point where a bad pull leaves me faceplanted. The Unholy Masquerave mission had me dying to just about every mob I engaged. I was a bit annoyed having to run back every single time, but it's still far more enjoyable than how it was back in the day.

 

If I'm playing any Regeneration toon, dying can get me so salty that I will just log out and play someone else. The main reason being that Regeneration is so, so tedious to get started back up. Waiting for Hasten and Dull Pain to recharge. Eugh.

 

Any other 50? If I die, I'm just like, "woah, that killed me?" and I get up and move on.

 

Death is barely a consequence 90% of the time, and most of the time, it's pretty easy to understand what killed you and how to overcome it. Not at all like it used to be. Oh, you got killed by level 14 Igneous in Grendel's Gulch while trying to run to your level 8 mission in Eastgate Heights? That's rough buddy. Hosp it and try again. I would never wanna go back to that.

[battlewraith]

Yes, it’s just a minor inconvenience, if that. The core activity of coh is grinding. You don’t win the game. It doesn’t reset if you beat a final boss, or if your character is defeated. The general assumption is that you should be able to beat anything unless you goof up, which is why people said they’re embarrassed when defeated.

[Cancrusher]

Quote

Don't be THAT guy that thinks it's okay for a blaster to die. Over and over and over again. Don't be the guy that runs into the mobs just to inferno/nuke and make Rise of the Phoenix part of your attack chain, no matter how fun it is. It makes you look bad, and gives the undeserved reputation of "glass cannon" to blasters everywhere. Be a loose cannon, yes. But not a glass cannon. 

 

I'm that guy.  Also, I need to see if the name "Glass Cannon" is taken.  😁

[Doomguide2005]

     Yes always has been always will be. 

[VashNKnives]

Having to hosp hits different than being able to get up in mish again, esp if I can do it right next to the pack that knocked me down. Something in me looks at that rez in mish as a skilled recovery vs a total loss.

Edited January 23, 2022 by VashNKnives

[Glacier Peak]

I haven't even thought about defeat through the perspective of character concept. Having not delved in to RP much, I can't say anything on the topic of defeat and RPing. Anyone have feedback to share about that?

[Thorgi]

It always was. Imo anyways. 

 

This is also a matter of perspective. What changed my views on it was actually picking up Demon's Souls a decade ago from the 10 dollar PS3 bargain bin. 

 

The Souls series is seen as difficult, though mostly it's punishing of mistakes, and often brutally so. The only thing you lose when you die is time, ultimately. Time helping kill a boss to regain humanity and souls, for instance. Time running back to the boss you died to, and any loss of composure during the corpse walk of shame, because you want your estus/Sunny D swigs for the boss you just died to. Not the trash mobs you shouldn't be taking damage from in the first place. 

 

Death is an inconvenience and a tool to teach, in games

Edited January 23, 2022 by Thorgi

[PLVRIZR]

On 1/19/2022 at 4:05 PM, Without_Pause said:

Play hardcore and then so how small defeat feels.

Or (albeit to a lesser degree) during a Master of-Trial.

[Techwright]

Inconvenience, yes, but some inconveniences are worse than others.  

 

The Death From Below instances, for example:  depending on where you are dropped, you might have a long run back from the hospital and might miss out on some key things.

 

I've lost badges and awards before because I opted for the hospital and the team finished out something I needed.  Out of range = loss of reward.