MSR is stupid, and possibly one of the dumbest designs in MMORPG history

[arcane]

10 minutes ago, Shred Monkey said:

Snarky is using hyperbole

Ok I’ve been patient with some of the rhetoric on this forum but these incendiary allegations are really over the line!

[Ukase]

15 minutes ago, KC4800 said:

The only thing I dislike about the MSR is that there is an exploration badge smack dab in the middle of the ship that you cannot get unless you partake in the MSR.

This isn't entirely true. You don't have to participate in the MSR to get this badge. Let the msr form, sit back, let the league clear pylons, then you have 30 minutes to simply fly over head, drop down into the bowl while solo, in the midst of all the chaos with all those team buffs going on, so you'll be fine. Check your chat box for the badge system message, then hop out and go about your merry way. 

[Snarky]

42 minutes ago, Ukase said:

This isn't entirely true. You don't have to participate in the MSR to get this badge. Let the msr form, sit back, let the league clear pylons, then you have 30 minutes to simply fly over head, drop down into the bowl while solo, in the midst of all the chaos with all those team buffs going on, so you'll be fine. Check your chat box for the badge system message, then hop out and go about your merry way. 

.....wait....there are eighteen bombs and these idiots opened the can for me......    new information is leading to a waaaaaay different strategy.  I thought there were 6 bombs.....  damn, still need that boss ten times though.....grrrrrrrr

[Apparition]

Just now, Snarky said:

.....wait....there are eighteen bombs and these idiots opened the can for me......    new information is leading to a waaaaaay different strategy.  I thought there were 6 bombs.....  damn, still need that boss ten times though.....grrrrrrrr

 

There's three sides, each with six bombs available for a total of eighteen.

 

If you time it very, very carefully, it's possible that you may get lucky and be able to plant a second bomb after the 30 minute mark, before you are teleported back to Point du Hoc (zone)/the Rikti retreat back inside the mothership (instanced).

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, KC4800 said:

The only thing I dislike about the MSR is that there is an exploration badge smack dab in the middle of the ship that you cannot get unless you partake in the MSR.

 

League forms.

Spot opens in zone.

Fly over, jump in the middle of the ship, get badge, zone out.

 

And... yeah. For the OP? Don't like the raid? Don't do it. Simple as that. No need to try to drench the forum in tears about it. We've got a good, fun group on Everlasting that does it every night. Plenty of *other* badge progress if that's what you're after (damage, mez, damage taken, healing, etc.) Merits on top of merits. Dropship hunt when we're done for yet another bunch of reward merits and a badge. Leechers get warned and kicked. All 'round pleasant and fun.

[Xeres]

Well let me chime in here for a second.  Everyone has opinions and all, so here's just another.

 

I've run a few MSR on Everlasting, and mostly the people who frequent those MSRs (the 7:30 ish, right after the Hami raid) are there more for a social setting than the actual raid itself.  Basically you chill for about 30 mins (after pylons) talk to people and deal with Rikti.  The fun of those raids isn't the activity itself per se, but whom you do those raids with.  And you get Vanguard Merits.

 

But as for the title of the thread, no.  I don't agree with that hyperbole.

[Hedgefund]

I do them for 

1) a bigger sack

2) a big ol' bot

3) a grai matter or two

 

There's no other way to get these so "don't do activity you don't like" doesn't apply here.  I want those things, I have to raid, so be it.

 

Then never ever ever again (until the next 50 [I only do them at 50 once I have a destiny+lore to contribute]).  IMO this is the worst activity in the game.  My own mini game is how long can I last before I check the timer.  Last time there was 25:00 remaining, I knew I was in for a long, long raid.  The best was with a tank when I was actively pulling and I think the first time I checked there was about 7 minutes left.  That was a good one.

[Cherry]

2 hours ago, Apparition said:

  Mothership raids aren't the most exciting nor challenging thing to do in the game.  You know what it's for?  (Or at least what I see Rikti mothership raids as being for, anyhoo.)  Beating up a crap ton of aliens while relaxing with 47 of your closest friends.  @Anyad and I co-lead two instanced Rikti mothership raids every Friday night.  It gives us a chance to catch up with the Torchbearer shard community and get to know new people, while beating up aliens and getting some reward merits for our trouble. 

Aww! this was like a group hug

Edited February 9, 2022 by Cherry
derp

[Ukase]

3 hours ago, arcane said:

That should probably lessen your opinion of yourself a bit, yikes 😢

Not a bit. The notion that someone just goes afk for 30 minutes should disappoint everyone who's actually playing their characters. Why should they get free xp/merits and do nothing but put one power on auto? Add to that - if you're on a team with several of those folks - your own rewards will be less for your trouble. It ain't right. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

I think Snarky is using hyperbole ...

 

[Lazarillo]

I'm not especially fond of them.  They're boring (less boring when pulling, but still hardly exciting), and yeah, the grindiness of the badges is discouraging, and on Everlasting, at least, the sort of off-color chat that goes on in Local during them doesn't exactly create a pleasant mood.  If the badges were less grind-y, at least, they might be fun to occasionally dip into.  But as it is, they just end up feeling tedious.

[A Cat]

Haven't seen anyone say this, though I have been known to be selectively blind, but please don't break more grates than necessary to get your bombs. Grates, when taunted, will pull an entire spawn. They are very very convenient to use to do pulls. Another thing you can do (on the closest grates to the bowl anyway) is put a debuff toggle on them, like the rad ones or the darkness one. This continuously aggros the mob as they TP in and automatically pulls for you as you play turret in the bowl. 

 

Personally, I like the MSR's. It's time to BS with people, and I almost always pull. I don't generally use a super survivable character for this (EM/Bio scrapper, with genetic contamination turned off since it will damage grates) so it is an exciting battle of survival against 16 level 54 EB's, bosses, and LT's at a time. I don't worry about the profit from this too much, since I market/AFK farm for that. I'm just there to BS mainly. 

[ForeverLaxx]

My only experience with the MSR on Homecoming has been... well, let's just say that my character, who was in zone asking for an invite like others were, was ignored by the guys running the League until I got a /tell from them telling me to leave the zone so that others could get in. Of course, I did nothing of the sort and just hung out in the bowl, blasting Rikti solo anyway. Pretty sure I ended up deleting that character though for unrelated reasons, but still.

 

When I follow your directions and you ignore me before telling me to leave, I get a bit vindictive.

[MTeague]

The thing I don't like about MSR is I can have absolutely NO IDEA of most of the mechanics, and still be part of a successful team. 

Like, I can be entirely unware that there are such things as bombs, anywhere on the ship. Not even know where they are, how and when I'm supposed to interact with them, etc. 

As long as I scrapperlock damage out in the pit, roll some leadership toggles, then .... I did .... good(?)

 

It feels like more understanding of the objectives should be required. 

But I did do WoW progressions raids for.... too many years.... so that likely skews my expectations.

[A Cat]

28 minutes ago, MTeague said:

The thing I don't like about MSR is I can have absolutely NO IDEA of most of the mechanics, and still be part of a successful team. 

Like, I can be entirely unware that there are such things as bombs, anywhere on the ship. Not even know where they are, how and when I'm supposed to interact with them, etc. 

As long as I scrapperlock damage out in the pit, roll some leadership toggles, then .... I did .... good(?)

 

It feels like more understanding of the objectives should be required. 

But I did do WoW progressions raids for.... too many years.... so that likely skews my expectations.

There's a NPC that explains the basics in the Vanguard base interior. One is near the exit portal to the outside of the base. 

 

That aside, there are also the more meta raid instructions, but those vary based on who's running it. Generally this includes the order the Pylons are pursued (not a big deal, just follow the blob), which team is assigned which bombs to defuse, and the timing of the jump into the bowl (this is generally the most dangerous step). After that, just keep the mobs flowing to the center and don't block them from coming in. 

[Apparition]

16 minutes ago, MTeague said:

The thing I don't like about MSR is I can have absolutely NO IDEA of most of the mechanics, and still be part of a successful team. 

Like, I can be entirely unware that there are such things as bombs, anywhere on the ship. Not even know where they are, how and when I'm supposed to interact with them, etc. 

As long as I scrapperlock damage out in the pit, roll some leadership toggles, then .... I did .... good(?)

 

It feels like more understanding of the objectives should be required. 

But I did do WoW progressions raids for.... too many years.... so that likely skews my expectations.

 

1. Take down all twenty pylons.  Order isn’t important, although it usually ends at Pylon 1. Some shards go clockwise, others go counter-clockwise.

 

2. Once all pylons are destroyed, the mothership’s shield goes down.  You now have ten minutes on the clock before the mothership’s shield is restored and the league is punted to Point du Hoc (zone) / all of the Rikti retreat back inside the mothership and leave the league twiddling their collective thumbs (instanced).

 

3. There are eighteen bomb grates on the mothership.  Destroying a grate and clicking a bomb inside will grant an additional three minutes onto the clock.  (Total of thirteen minutes.). Now, here is where it gets a bit tricky.  If you have fewer than 25 people on the league, destroying another grate and clicking a second bomb will spawn U’Kon Gr’ai in the middle of the bowl, adding an additional ten minutes onto the clock.  If you have 25 or more people on the league, destroying another grate and clicking a second bomb will grant an additional three minutes onto the clock.  (Total of sixteen minutes.).  If you have 25 or more people on the league, destroying another grate and clicking a third bomb will spawn U’kon Gr’ai in the middle of the bowl, adding an additional ten minutes onto the clock.

 

So if you have less than 25 people on the league, you only need to plant two bombs.  With the spawning of U’kon Gr’ai, you have 23 minutes.  If you have 25 or more people on the league, you need to plant three bombs.  With the spawning of U’kon Gr’ai, you have 26 minutes.

 

Some mothership raid leaders assign teams to individual bomb grates.  I don’t bother.  I have been doing this a long time - both live and Homecoming - and I know from experience that the vast majority of people don’t read instructions and will just go wherever.  So instead, I ask each and every team to pick one or two people to plant a bomb, and have everyone else in the league head directly to the bowl.

 

4. Defeat U’kon Gr’ai.  Defeating him gives you an additional five minutes of time on the clock, so you now have either 28 minutes or 31 minutes on the clock, total.

 

5. Have Brutes, Tankers, Scrappers, and Dwarf Kheldians go out to the rim of the mothership, and pull Rikti into the bowl.  Everyone else should be huddled together in the bowl of the mothership, throwing out buffs, heals, AoE mez protection, and taking down Rikti as they come.

 

6. Repeatedly remind people not to bloody fight the Rikti on the rim nor on the ramps and just pull them into the bowl.

 

7. The raid is over.  You have either been teleported to Point du Hoc (zone), or the Rikti have retreated back inside the mothership and left the league all alone in the bowl.  Now you go hunt down and destroy the Rikti drop ship that spawned during the pylon phase.  Holds and immobilizes on the drop ship are helpful here.

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

I do them for 

1) a bigger sack

2) a big ol' bot

3) a grai matter or two

 

There's no other way to get these so "don't do activity you don't like" doesn't apply here.  I want those things, I have to raid, so be it.

 

Incorrect.

 

You get them (at least the first two) for vanguard merits.

You get vanguard merits by being a member of vanguard and defeating Rikti.

You don't need to do an MSR. Any Rikti killed anywhere will give them. So, no, you don't "have to" raid.  Run the RWZ arcs. Run the repeatables. Kill Rikti in zone. Kill Rikti in invasions.

 

The third... pfft, isn't that a reward for Lady Grey? Or... well, made with shards, which drop while doing other things.

 

Congrats. You can ignore MSRs all you want now.

[Milk Sheik]

One other reward so obvious, only Milk would mention it -- xp and inf. When you're 35-49, all those enemies are +5 to you, so if you don't like farms or the MSR is at a more convenient time, you can score some fast levels out of it, particularly with double XP. You might die a few times if you range out of the heal spam, but you will definitely have stuff to do. Pick on the lieutenants and the wounded if you're damage, or buff and heal the pullers and killers.

[Clave Dark 5]

11 hours ago, Snarky said:

….this thing scrapes the bottom of the stupid barrel then goes back down to lick the bottom

But some of us like licking that bottom! 

 

Serious answer: I used to do it a lot when HC came back because my computer could now actually handle it, wheee!  Then I got really bored of it because it is long and repetitive, and didn't have too many chances.  Now I do when when I can because that's not too often.  I tend to have support toons and I like the free cash I net from it, in moderation.  I tend to run support and toons with a Rez, so that tends to keep me busy.  It's not complete waste of time with a decent pay-off at the end, plus we get to take down a drop-ship after.  Also?  How often do you get to team with 48 of your closest friends?  😃

 

Also, allow me to note that there are people who play this game who farm.  I see little difference in either activity being any less or more boring than the other, it's probably just a matter of perspective.  Except there's no drop-ship in farming.

[Hedgefund]

5 hours ago, Greycat said:

 

Incorrect.

 

You get them (at least the first two) for vanguard merits.

You get vanguard merits by being a member of vanguard and defeating Rikti.

You don't need to do an MSR. Any Rikti killed anywhere will give them. So, no, you don't "have to" raid.  Run the RWZ arcs. Run the repeatables. Kill Rikti in zone. Kill Rikti in invasions.

 

The third... pfft, isn't that a reward for Lady Grey? Or... well, made with shards, which drop while doing other things.

 

Congrats. You can ignore MSRs all you want now.

 

No, you're quite wrong.

You can learn the details of how Vanguard merits are awarded here: https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Vanguard_Merit#Earning_Merits

 

Most notably "While on the Rikti Mothership Raid, you get a Merit for each Rikti defeated if you or any of your teammates (including pets) did any damage to that Rikti. (In other words, everyone on the team gets a merit for the defeat.)" and "Away from the Rikti Mothership Raid, a defeated Rikti will drop a Merit 10% of the time. Minions drop one, lieutenants drop two, and bosses and higher ranked Rikti will drop three. This is only if the Rikti cons Green or higher."

 

And "third", again no, Lady Grey rewards a Hero One shard.  150 Vanguard merits can be exchanged for Grai Matter.

Edited February 9, 2022 by Hedgefund

[Bionic_Flea]

28 minutes ago, Hedgefund said:

No, you're quite wrong.

Hedge, the first paragraph of your link says you can get V-merits by killing Rikti anywhere after obtaining the Vanguard badge.

 

"A Vanguard Merit is a special salvage awarded for completion of tasks or defeat of Rikti in the Rikti War Zone as well as Rikti spawned from portals as part of the Rikti World Invasion event. Merits can also be earned by defeating Rikti elsewhere, such as in missions from contacts Steven Sheridan in Brickstown or Angus McQueen in Founders' Falls, or in the streets of Peregrine Island."

[Hedgefund]

The link I quoted says there's a 10% chance of a drop.  I can quote it again if needed.  That's not "any Rikti will give them" that's 10% of Rikti giving them.

[Cancrusher]

I also find them incredibly boring.  Same with Hamidon Raids. 

 

It's just an opinion.  If you feel differently, that's A-Okay.  People like (and dislike) different things.

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

 

No, you're quite wrong.

You can learn the details of how Vanguard merits are awarded here: https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Vanguard_Merit#Earning_Merits

 

Most notably "While on the Rikti Mothership Raid, you get a Merit for each Rikti defeated if you or any of your teammates (including pets) did any damage to that Rikti. (In other words, everyone on the team gets a merit for the defeat.)" and "Away from the Rikti Mothership Raid, a defeated Rikti will drop a Merit 10% of the time. Minions drop one, lieutenants drop two, and bosses and higher ranked Rikti will drop three. This is only if the Rikti cons Green or higher."

 

And "third", again no, Lady Grey rewards a Hero One shard.  150 Vanguard merits can be exchanged for Grai Matter.

 

You.

 

Get.

 

Vanguard.

 

Merits.

 

For.

 

Killing.

 

Rikti.

 

Not "just on the MSR."  YOU, meanwhile, stated :

13 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

There's no other way to get these so "don't do activity you don't like" doesn't apply here.  I want those things, I have to raid, so be it.

 

That's you. Highlighted for your convenience. In other words, no, you are incorrect.

 

Yes, you get V-merits for killing Rikti on the mothership. This is *one way to do so of several.* 

 

In fact, it TELLS YOU THIS ON THE VERY PAGE YOU QUOTED TO TELL ME I WAS WRONG, if you bothered to read the rest of the page:

 

Quote

Earning Merits

• While on the Rikti Mothership Raid, you get a Merit for each Rikti defeated if you or any of your teammates (including pets) did any damage to that Rikti. (In other words, everyone on the team gets a merit for the defeat.)

• While on the Rikti Mothership Raid, you get 10 Merits if your team sets a bomb.

• Away from the Rikti Mothership Raid, a defeated Rikti will drop a Merit 10% of the time. Minions drop one, lieutenants drop two, and bosses and higher ranked Rikti will drop three. This is only if the Rikti cons Green or higher.

• Missions given by Rikti War Zone contacts will award one Vanguard Merit on completion.

• The Vanguard Recruit Day Job grants one Vanguard Merit on completion of any mission. After receiving the badge, Veteran Vanguard Agents receive two Vanguard Merits per mission completion. This stacks with the merit granted by mission completion for Rikti War Zone contacts.

 

 

You'll note this is different from what you stated. These are... now wait for it... *other ways to get v-merits.* And thus, other ways to get the same rewards *without needing to raid.*  And in case you still don't believe it:

 

 

 

[Hedgefund]

I'm honestly not sure if this is some schtick to be a "General smartalec" or what.  Are you seriously suggesting that a legitimate means of earning around 1200 VMs is RWZ missions and general Rikti mobs?  Given the 90% reduction in VM reward for mobs that means around 10,000 rikti, I'm adjusting down for mission rewards and lt/boss rewards.

 

So, let me spell out what should have been obvious but apparently not.

 

"If one wants to receive that particular set of rewards, around 1200 VMs, in a reasonable amount of time, then the RWZ is the only way to do it".  45 minutes all told for a raid (including gathering) vs however many hours it would take outside of the raid.