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MSR is stupid, and possibly one of the dumbest designs in MMORPG history


Snarky

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So, beyond the fact that when published the MSR locked up a huge number of compiters for the  people who tried to run it…which just says tons about the Dev staff that threw it out the door….this thing scrapes the bottom of the stupid barrel then goes back down to lick the bottom

 

It lasts 30 minutes of nearly the exact same activity.  Yawn.  
 

it has two badges that require 10 runs (minimum) to accumulate.  That is 5 hours minimum not counting league prep and pylon burns etc.  

 

I just saw a group split and send a player to each of the bombs rather than have one go to each team.  The league leader specifically told each team where to go.  And one team hijacked everyone else’s bombs.  This is akin to the griefer on Excelsior who kills Sally non stop and laughs at anyone who tells them they are trying to badge for her.  
 

This whole activity is a crap show for an MMORPG in that unless you get lucky you can run this thing 20 times and not get a certain badge.  Thats a LOT of game time invested for one badge.  Especially now that a certain server is filled with griefers. 
 

All of this was fairly predictable to anyone who knows game theory, has ever dealt with people in the real world, or has studied any type of social sciences.  None of these  things apply to the Dev crew who kicked this turd out the door evidently.  If there is an opportunity to take advantage for one’s own benefit or amusement then that WILL happen. Don’t believe me?  Go out into rush hour traffic and watch people risking collisions to get one car length ahead

 

Long, boring, low rewards, and a perfect environment for griefers:  The Mother Ship Raid

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6 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I just saw a group split and send a player to each of the bombs rather than have one go to each team.  The league leader specifically told each team where to go.  And one team hijacked everyone else’s bombs.  This is akin to the griefer on Excelsior who kills Sally non stop and laughs at anyone who tells them they are trying to badge for her. 

I didn't think a team could get more than one bomb credit per MSR.

 

Also, if your team didn't defuse a bomb you can back after the GM is down and defuse one to get the credit. I know this is true, because I have done it myself.

 

As for the rest, yes it's boring unless you are pulling. That is a little fun.

Edited by KaizenSoze
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13 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

I didn't think a team could get more than one bomb credit per MSR.

 

Also, if your team didn't defuse a bomb you can back after the GM is down and defuse one to get the credit. I know this is true, because I have done it myself.

 

As for the rest, yes it's boring unless you are pulling. That is a little fun.

Then the team was specifically grieving the league.  There is a long timer on those bombs and then you have to fight back to the bomb in the last two minutes of the battle and hope to get credit

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25 minutes ago, Snarky said:

So, beyond the fact that when published the MSR locked up a huge number of compiters for the  people who tried to run it…which just says tons about the Dev staff that threw it out the door….this thing scrapes the bottom of the stupid barrel then goes back down to lick the bottom

 

It lasts 30 minutes of nearly the exact same activity.  Yawn.  
 

it has two badges that require 10 runs (minimum) to accumulate.  That is 5 hours minimum not counting league prep and pylon burns etc.  

 

I just saw a group split and send a player to each of the bombs rather than have one go to each team.  The league leader specifically told each team where to go.  And one team hijacked everyone else’s bombs.  This is akin to the griefer on Excelsior who kills Sally non stop and laughs at anyone who tells them they are trying to badge for her.  
 

This whole activity is a crap show for an MMORPG in that unless you get lucky you can run this thing 20 times and not get a certain badge.  Thats a LOT of game time invested for one badge.  Especially now that a certain server is filled with griefers. 
 

All of this was fairly predictable to anyone who knows game theory, has ever dealt with people in the real world, or has studied any type of social sciences.  None of these  things apply to the Dev crew who kicked this turd out the door evidently.  If there is an opportunity to take advantage for one’s own benefit or amusement then that WILL happen. Don’t believe me?  Go out into rush hour traffic and watch people risking collisions to get one car length ahead

 

Long, boring, low rewards, and a perfect environment for griefers:  The Mother Ship Raid

Sooooooooooo maybe don't do it if you hate it so much? I know many who enjoy it and they seem to run a lot.

 

I don't care for them myself but have done about 3 since I found Homecoming at the end of 2019 or so.

 

I think you have some legit complaints but I am sure it would take a lot of effort to re-work it. The Dev team is limited so I'd prefer new stuff over re-hashing most of the old. Sure, something like revamping Citadel TF might be a good idea but I'm ok with the MSRs.

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7 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Then the team was specifically grieving the league.  There is a long timer on those bombs and then you have to fight back to the bomb in the last two minutes of the battle and hope to get credit

Not sure what you mean about the last two minutes. Once, the GM is down you can go back any time and defuse. I have done this.

 

Yes, that team could have being selfish and not trusting the other team to get the bombs done.

 

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23 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

I didn't think a team could get more than one bomb credit per MSR.

 

 

This is true, unless the griefers are so organized that they all click the bomb at nearly the same time so the interaction bars are timing down simultaneously.

 

Vanguard merits can be turned into reward merits, or a nice pet, or extra salvage space, or a piece of incarnate salvage.

 

I enjoy going to hang out with my friends when @Apparition and @Anyad run them on Torch.  Not everybody has fun the same way; it's one of the nice things about CoX that there's so many different things to do.  

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I agree.  And what KaizenSoze said is true.   I've occasionally slipped into a non-full Raid and clicked a bomb without being on the raid.  Since there are 18 bombs on the ship anyway.

Though I think now, you get a bomb credit if a team member clicks one.  Thank you whoever did that

There's also a fairly nice suggestion for it at

 

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Yeah, I'll just echo that if you don't like it do other activities. There is plenty to choose from. On homecoming I did exactly enough MSRs to get the badges and then I was done with it. I don't understand the appeal that people find running it on repeat. The time and effort it takes just to gather bodies is ludicrous. 

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(Reads OP)

 

Well…(shrug) okay…

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All I know about MSR is that it’s the only lengthy activity in the game where you’ll easily and frequently get kicked for going to the bathroom or tabbing out to pick some music. I don’t know how it goes on Excel because the typical Indom leader ruined the entire experience for me. I don’t know what it is about that content that lodges large sticks up asses, but I choose not to engage with it.

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Oh my! 

Anecdotally, when anyone one player clicks on a bomb, nobody else on that team can do so until 30 minutes has elapsed. Keep in mind, there are 18 total grates that contain a bomb in them. 

So, if a team of 8 were to click 8 bombs, that still leaves 10 more grates with bombs in them. If nobody on your team has clicked - go for it. Fortunately, if someone on your team has clicked, you do get credit towards that bomb click badge. In some cases, if you time it just right, you can get 2 clicks per MSR. 

I completely understand the frustration though! For every player I encounter that seems to "get it", and play with competence and civility, there's another couple of folks that are just in it for their own brand of fun, regardless of how that impacts with other players. 

As for MSRs, I can only think of 3 reasons to do them. 

The merits. 

The social chatter. 

The badges. 

Once you get the badges, the merits become less desirable. It's particularly maddening when you learn you have to do the msr one more time because your team didn't do at least 10% of the damage to get credit for the GM kill. 

And, a peeve of mine has always been the folks who go to a different pylon instead of sticking together as a league. I get called petty for wanting those extra VG merits, and I'll take that label. I want 'em all! 

Another annoying thing is the folks that go afk during it because they can. Put a power on auto-fire, target through an HVAS and come back in 30 minutes. What kills me is some are what I consider friends in this game, and it lessens my opinion of them a tiny bit. On one hand, I get it. It's dull, routine, and nobody seems to have an issue with it, so why not? 

 

Add to that, while it's been a good while since I've heard it, there used to be a loud minority who thought/(still think?) that stealth impacted spawns of Rikti. I've yet to see any proof of this, but I've no idea how to effectively test it. And ultimately, as someone once told me, "If they think it's true, then it's true for them. What's to be gained by proving them wrong?" 

There's always the instanced MSR that @Apparition does. App used to do them on Excelsior, and for whatever reason, now does them on Torch. Hey, we get 5 free transfers a week. Wouldn't be a problem for me to switch servers if I wanted to do an instanced one. In those cases, everyone is at least level 35, so while some folks might still do the afk-thing, there's a lot less chance of needless team wipes because someone wanted to PL their character in an msr instead of a farm. 

Or, could always just host one yourself. There's less lag in those - at least, that's my understanding. I don't get lag in either one, so I can't say. 

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Well, seeing as I've been pinged in this thread twice now...

 

Here's the deal.

 

Nothing in City of Heroes is for everyone.  Some people like Sentinels and blue side.  I have no idea how, but they do.  Not for me to question.  I like Masterminds and red side.  Other people dislike both and think that I'm crazy.  (I am, but that's besides the point.)  Some people like Hamidon raids.  Some people find Hamidon raids incredibly boring.  Some people like radio missions.  Some people find radio missions incredibly boring.  Some people like iTrials.  Some people don't.  Whatever.  The point is that nothing is for everyone.  You don't like mothership raids, and that's okie.  Others do like them, including myself.

 

I get it.  Mothership raids aren't the most exciting nor challenging thing to do in the game.  You know what it's for?  (Or at least what I see Rikti mothership raids as being for, anyhoo.)  Beating up a crap ton of aliens while relaxing with 47 of your closest friends.  @Anyad and I co-lead two instanced Rikti mothership raids every Friday night.  It gives us a chance to catch up with the Torchbearer shard community and get to know new people, while beating up aliens and getting some reward merits for our trouble.  If I want actual challenge, there's other avenues for that in the game.  When I want challenge, I go do a four person iTrial or a Relentless ASF with the Vanguard AVs fight, or do a Really Hard Way Magisterium trial.  When I want to relax and spend a little time with the shard community while kicking alien butt, I do a Rikti mothership raid.

 

What Ukase said about lag in the instanced mothership raid is correct.  The instanced mothership raid has substantially less lag than a zone mothership raid, and you get more rewards as well.

 

It sounds like the mothership raid's design is part of your issue, which is fine.  Like I said, nothing is for everyone.  You don't like it, you don't like it.  But another part of your issue is doing a zone mothership raid instead of an instanced mothership raid, (a zone mothership raid has more lag and less ability for the mothership raid leader to deal with griefers).  I'd suggest giving an instanced mothership raid on Indomitable or Torchbearer a try, or try forming one yourself on Excelsior.  Like Ukase said, I used to lead instanced mothership raids on Excelsior, but I moved to Torchbearer about ten months ago.

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It's a graphic overload on my laptop which turns into a stream of screenshots. Needless to say I find it needlessly boring and rarely do it. I'll do it for the badges on a new character and stick a fork back into it. 

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3 minutes ago, Apparition said:

The instanced mothership raid has substantially less lag than a zone mothership raid, and you get more rewards as well.

 

I am curious about the rewards differential you are seeing.

 

The last MSR I ran netted, for me as a puller, 1500+ vMerits. That's on the high side for me, yes, but I get that frequently - mid forties up to low fifties. What kind of vMerits are your pullers reporting? I'm curious how far apart the instanced and zoned versions are. I don't really look at influence or XP at this point, so I can't comment on those, and maybe that's what you are referring to with the higher level Rikti.

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4 minutes ago, Oklahoman said:

 

I am curious about the rewards differential you are seeing.

 

The last MSR I ran netted, for me as a puller, 1500+ vMerits. That's on the high side for me, yes, but I get that frequently - mid forties up to low fifties. What kind of vMerits are your pullers reporting? I'm curious how far apart the instanced and zoned versions are. I don't really look at influence or XP at this point, so I can't comment on those, and maybe that's what you are referring to with the higher level Rikti.

 

With a full league, I've seen it go as high as 2,100 although that's rare.  More along the lines of about 1,800.  But that's for everyone, including pullers.

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I think Snarky is using hyperbole to express his frustration at how annoying it is to get the badges from MSR.  I mean, complaining about having to wait out a 30 minute timer for badge progress?  Clearly he's never had connection issues cause him to miss getting off the boat that goes between Freeport and Butcherblock Mountains.

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2 hours ago, Snarky said:

This is akin to the griefer on Excelsior who kills Sally non stop and laughs at anyone who tells them they are trying to badge for her.  

Wait, someone is picking on Sally?  Name names!  We can form a task force to defend her! 

 

(I mean, we can't, because Croatoa isn't a PvP zone, but poor Sally needs a champion.)

 

As for MSR: yeah, unless I'm chasing badges, the only times I really do MSR are with either (1) a tanker or (2) an emp defender with heals on auto.  Sitting around for half an hour spamming attacks isn't really my thing.  With the defender, at least I can chat while contributing somewhat to the MSR.

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The only thing I dislike about the MSR is that there is an exploration badge smack dab in the middle of the ship that you cannot get unless you partake in the MSR. I said they were not for me two years ago. I still believe that. Now I need to do one once in awhile to clear the exploration badge mission for the RWZ.

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