Will the rest of the incarnate powers ever be unlocked?

[Mr. Apocalypse]

Like the title says, are there any plans in the works to flesh out the rest of the incarnate powers.  Not that it really matters, just curiosity. I have always wondered what the rest of the powers would have been. Was there any info from the original devs on what they were going to be?, or was it still not yet planned at the time of shutdown?

[Greycat]

No, they won't, from what we can tell. A whole new slew of content would be needed for it. (This was going to be tied into that godawful Battalion / "Traitor Lady Grey" content. There would then also be trees past these, while we were dealing with Ascended, then ... I forget the next group after that. Prometheus would have been an example of the Ascended, as I recall.)

 

Yes, we have names of some (all?) of the next tier, but that's about it.  Aside from Hybrid, we had Genesis, Mind, Vitae and Omega, but no information on them.

 

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Incarnate_System

Edited February 26, 2022 by Greycat

[MTeague]

The topic has been asked a few times before. I don't know if there was ever an official response from HC Devs.

I personally would not hold my breath.

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/14022-finish-the-last-four-incarnates-with-awesome-uber-powerz-with-some-ideas

[Mr. Apocalypse]

10 minutes ago, MTeague said:

The topic has been asked a few times before. I don't know if there was ever an official response from HC Devs.

I personally would not hold my breath.

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/14022-finish-the-last-four-incarnates-with-awesome-uber-powerz-with-some-ideas

Thanks for the link. I figured the whole more content needed, As is they are already almost game breaking when combined with the invention system.  Oh what could have been, we will never know..Thanks NCSoft!

[Haijinx]

Never liked the generic aspect of the powers we did get tbh.

[Peacemoon]

I doubt it. I think the danger is they would probably be a bit crazy and change the game too much if implemented in the way the later incarnates were (like Judgement and Lore).

 

If they were just unlocked as extra alpha slots after a lot of playtime, that might be pretty nifty as a perk.

[Greycat]

Being honest, Incarnate powers were a weird fit into the game - and likely there specifically to keep Premium subs going, as the vet rewards/microtransactions couldn't really keep going.

 

COH was, and is, an odd MMO. It grew wider, not taller - that is, 50 was the top level, period, and we just kept adding expansions to the sides. There's also no real "gear" to get, unlike other games where you can just add an expansion, say "Well, and now you need 10 more levels on top, and the raids are here which you need to get the Uber Leet Sword of Slashy Slashy +6 and Armor of WowShininess." 

 

*Some* of the Incarnate stuff, I don't mind - Alpha, for instance, shows you just getting overall a bit more powerful, Interface isn't bad, etc. Others, like Judgement, were a bit much ("Everyone's got a Blaster-Plus level Nuke.") I think it was basically trying to force COH into Bog-Standard-Grindy-MMO molds and it didn't really work.

[On-Fire Dude]

I always looked at it as the later Incarnate powers only showing up in the Ouro arc WAAAY in the future where your character is at the pinnacle of their potential, but not anything we could actually attain...

[Snarky]

I enjoy the game 1-50 crawling to 50 on PUG teams or solo.  ….okay, most PUG teams…

 

I enjoy playing incarnate 50s in Trials and 50 SF/TF.  I like taking an incarnate into regular 50 door missions and story arcs.  On a team it is a rollicking hoot.  Usually set at +4/x8. Solo you can set at +0 and walk through the story arcs as a SUPER villain earning badges, merits, and completing the game. 
 

One of the great strengths of CoH is the customization allowed. From costume to power-sets to playstyle CoH delivers a platform for the player to live in the world in their head

 

I am greatly looking forward to the Dr Aeon treatment of older SF/TF with multiple difficulty setting.  Thank you Devs

 

As an unrepentant power gamer I would love to have more incarnate powers.  Perhaps tied to veteran levels. They could be “hard bonuses” like a significant health boost that is permanently attached to the toon (not over capping but getting you toward AT cap) or a dozen other ideas, most probably better, that players have already provided. An Omega that was a second Alpha?   I swoon at the thought lol.  

Edited February 27, 2022 by Snarky

[The_Warpact]

There would have to be significant resources put into it and then even more to have these powers used in new trials so they can be utilized. 

Full maxed out Incarnate doing an ITF, I shudder at how OP that would be. Master of TFs I suspect would be way easier.

[Snarky]

21 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

There would have to be significant resources put into it and then even more to have these powers used in new trials so they can be utilized. 

Full maxed out Incarnate doing an ITF, I shudder at how OP that would be. Master of TFs I suspect would be way easier.

The new Master setting nullify ALL incarnate abilities.  Badging is different than ROFLSTOMPing

[The_Warpact]

9 minutes ago, Snarky said:

The new Master setting nullify ALL incarnate abilities.  Badging is different than ROFLSTOMPing

How does that affect iTrials? I don't run them so no experience on this.

Even then I don't see a significant investment of any of this ever being implemented so its moot.

[Snarky]

26 minutes ago, The_Warpact said:

How does that affect iTrials? I don't run them so no experience on this.

Even then I don't see a significant investment of any of this ever being implemented so its moot.

Master badges in Incarnate Trials are based on an accolade, getting various badges for very particular tasks.  They are not tied to no deaths or power restrictions  The Master setting for non incarnate trials now nullify incarnate powers, temp powers, etc (no team transport!)

Edited February 27, 2022 by Snarky

[Without_Pause]

8 hours ago, Greycat said:

*Some* of the Incarnate stuff, I don't mind - Alpha, for instance, shows you just getting overall a bit more powerful, Interface isn't bad, etc. Others, like Judgement, were a bit much ("Everyone's got a Blaster-Plus level Nuke.") I think it was basically trying to force COH into Bog-Standard-Grindy-MMO molds and it didn't really work.

Alpha, Destiny, and Hybrid are the ones I care about. Interface is a bit of whatever. Lore and Judgement are just meh to ugh.

 

I do agree that adding in more of the system would require a lot of work even for a full paid staff. It essentially becomes impossible once the originators of a system aren't around to lead in further developing the system.

[MTeague]

If ever any additional Incarnate powers ARE added, I would implore the devs to limit thier use to only actual Incarnate content AND NOT everything 45+.

[Glacier Peak]

I would've preferred the incarnate system as an archetype with specific content, some what like the hero and villain epic ATs. Unlocked after choosing to drink from the well of the furies instead of the trickle the in game lore feeds us. Then again, that model didn't work for ncsoft, so its a fantasy lol

[oedipus_tex]

EDIT: On re-read this post sounds more drastic than I'd hoped, but its Mardi Gras weekend and I don't have time to revise before heading back out. Hopefully this gets read as a suggestion and not a diatribe. 🙂 Happy carnival.

 

 

At risk of being guillotined for saying it, I would love to see the Level Shift ability only apply during iTrials. If reward rates are a concern, and that meant making it so that level 53s give rewards like 54s, and so on, that would be fine. In this instance, it's more about fixing the play experience than the net rewards for me.

 

Level Shifts are IMO the most destablizing mechanic in the current game, because of how they provide better rewards the stronger your character already is. If you're fighting 54s already, and can shift that downward so that you're fighting 53s, you're earning a lot more than the player who shifted from 51s to 50s. That's because the Purple Patch gets harsher the larger the level difference between player and critter. It's not even really accurate to say the Level Shift even "gives you an extra level"; what it meaningfully does is subtract one from the level difference between player and enemy, resulting in using different tables.

 

For example:

 

 

 

We can see from the table that at +4 power effectiveness is cut by more than half. If we can reduce the level difference from +4 to +3, instead of half, we're now only losing 1/3rd of our efficiency.

 

Meanwhile, a player who is fighting +1s is already fighting with 90% efficiency.  They get 10% back from the Level Shift, but not nearly the drastic change in performance.

 

 

 

I won't do the math on how much efficiency you gain by reducing a +4 to a +1 in Dark Astoria. Apparently that segment of the game was designed with that in mind. I don't understand it, got flamed hard last time I brought it up, so I'll just highlight it and move on.

 

 

Note I do think Level Shifts are appropriate inside iTrials. iTrials were designed for them, and players get crushed without them. I'd even be fine with making Level Shifts easier to obtain for iTrials, because getting crushed and not able to do much in a 24 man trial is not very fun. But, outside of iTrials, I'd like to see changes made.

Edited February 28, 2022 by oedipus_tex

[wjrasmussen]

I suggested adding another system.  Second Incarnate system.  New trees and abilities and cake.

[OmegaOne]

It was mentioned in one of the post-shutdown "Loregasms" that Genesis was supposed to be something like placeable buff/debuff fields, but beyond the concept I don't think anything concrete was worked on.

 

If the devs ever DO decide to fill out the rest, I'd very much like them to be like the Alpha or Interface slots - passive buffs or procs. We have more than enough powers to click at level 50+, I really don't need any more in my 6 power trays.

 

If additional content is needed (rather than just letting the Incarnate XP build up to unlock the slots as it does now), then I'd recommend 8-man Incarnate TFs (like Apex and Tin Mage) rather than huge multi-team trials. Not only is it easier to recruit for smaller TFs, but they are probably also easier to design, and the smaller team means that your individual powers can actually matter instead of being rendered nearly irrelevant in the league spam.

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

I would've preferred the incarnate system as an archetype with specific content, some what like the hero and villain epic ATs.

 

Weeeeeelllllllll.... um.

11/13/2004:

 

Quote

I'll drop a hint: the name of an upcoming Epic Archetype.

Incarnate.

Heck - I'll do another....

Coralax.

Happy Saturday!

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20120904105240/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showpost.php?p=31866&postcount=16

 

See also:

http://web.archive.org/web/20120907022352/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=239822

 

:)

 

 

[Mezmera]

I would very much like to see the last 4 incarnate powers to become available some time.  I agree they would need coinciding content to justify their introduction which why can't this group of devs do that?  They're doing quite well with adding content, I think they would have a good handle on implementing these powers and might even have had a road map from before.  

 

These powers should be a bit more of a grind to get and they should be locked out of certain current top content.  But I say have at it this dev team I believe they can get it worked out well.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Mezmera

[Haijinx]

3 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

I suggested adding another system.  Second Incarnate system.  New trees and abilities and cake.

 

I vote for cake

[Kriiden]

Personally, I generally like the incarnate system.

After reading some of the other posts in this thread, I kind of see in my head what I think could work. Obviously other's opinions may differ.

Firstly: Make it so you need to do something else then just earning additional exp (like the original servers? Can't remember at the moment what was default) to unlock incarnate. That way the content can be made more avoidable, for those who think the system makes any individual toon OP, (Granted, you could always turn off exp right now, and then it would be the same result). Personally, I think it should be a combination of badges and other things. Something akin to accolades.
Secondly: Rearrange some of the incarnate abilities. For instance, as some have said, move/change the "Nuke" to a different slot, or get rid of it completely.  To do this at this stage WOULD be a pain in the rump for those who have builds that require incarnates, but for now, let's overlook that. After the incarnate system is reorganized, add silly, more overpowered things, with their own, sometimes difficult, requirements depending on an ever increasing difficulty. (Make it difficult. Make it VERY difficult. I dislike difficult things, but despite this, I love this game, and think it would do well by it.)
Thirdly: Cake. 

In my own admittedly unorganized mind, doing something similar to what I put above could, depending on the communities views, would allow the dev's to reestablish what defines as "end game" content and what's "additional fun content", and or a slight mix of both. 

[Oklahoman]

Personally, I would like FEWER things to click. If they ever did add anything more, I would like to see automatic stuff or maybe stuff that enhances existing powers.

[Clave Dark 5]

God I hope not!  Players spend too much time already power leveling to 50 so they can speed run some Ouro arc for shards and Incarnate drops, instead of juts playing the game.  Gated Incarnate content just about killed the game on Live, for anything other than Incarnate grinding, lord knows we don't need more of that nonsense.