Modernizing Regeneration

[Troo]

Regeneration: I love the reactive nature which rewards situational awareness and experience with timing activations.

 

That said:

• Regen punishes players who prefer more passive mitigation. (it requires attention)
• Regen punishes players that want to use long activation powers. (can't heal while in the middle of a 3.6s animation)
• Tactics which enhance Regen survivablility are readily available for other sets. (but my not be as needed on the other sets).
• Regen can suffer when recharge is debuffed significantly.
• Regen can impact offensive effectiveness. (can impact tight or gapless attack chains.)(also has no +dam component)

 

Regen is not for everyone. I like that.

 

What could be achieved by level 25:

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Troo

[Solarverse]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

Regeneration: I love the reactive nature which rewards situational awareness and experience with timing activations.

 

That said:

• Regen punishes players who prefer more passive mitigation. (it requires attention)
• Regen punishes players that want to use long activation powers. (can't heal while in the middle of a 3.6s animation)
• Tactics which enhance Regen survivablility are readily available for other sets. (but my not be as needed on the other sets).
• Regen can suffer when recharge is debuffed significantly.
• Regen can impact offensive effectiveness. (can impact tight or gapless attack chains.)

Regen is not for everyone. I like that.

 

What could be achieved by level 25:

 

 

I can take a turd, (Regen) roll it up in chocolate (IO's) and call it a tootsie roll, but we both know it's still just a turd. You're right about one thing, Regen isn't for everyone. Neither are turds.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Solarverse

[BrandX]

Resilience - Give it a Resist boost (12.68 base Resist vs 9.68 base Resist - Scrapper/Brute/Stalker numbers) and put -Regen Resist AND MAYBE -Rec/-END Resist here.  This is the Resilience power.  

 

Fast Healing - add Slow Resist here.  Look at the name...Fast Healing.  Recovers from the slows faster too!

 

That all said...could put the slow resist in Resilience instead of Fast Healing.  Especially if avoid giving it the -Rec/-End Resist.  I'm not to worried about it myself, but I can see the arguments for it.  I wouldn't put any of it in Quick Recovery, as Stalkers don't get Quick Recovery.

 

Integration - Add that 50% to the percentage that can be enhanced!  What is it 100% can be enhanced while 50% can't?  Let us enhance it all!

 

MoG - I've suggested it before, allow it to last 20-30 seconds!  However, after reading the one post, I don't think I ever suggested 30 seconds and REDUCE some of those buffs!  Go from 71.25/71.25 Resist/Defense to 50/50 (?) Resist/Defense.  Still capping the resists if they take Resilience and soft capped defense.  So a bit of buffer for those -defense moments, but not as good.

Edit: However, thinking on this, 30 seconds would likely be to powerful due to Incarnate abilities at 30 seconds.  18 (to cover cast time) to 20 seconds is likely better bet without going OP, if I'm correct on 30 seconds even at 50/50 being to much.

 

For Stalkers they could also combine Fast Healing and Quick Recovery into one power at half effectiveness of both powers...Fast Recovery!

 

As a Regen player, I think I've been a bit more annoyed at the Terrorize over other things, but we all have are "Gah!" moments, and I can see why people would hate the -End/-Rec Resist hole, when new sets all seem to have it AND have +Rec options.

 

These changes may not give it the huge boost of survival to equal others, but they may give players a bit more time to react with the 3 click heals!  Integration is regenning a little more, Resilience is resisting just a little more.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by BrandX

[Solarverse]

52 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Resilience - Give it a Resist boost (12.68 base Resist vs 9.68 base Resist - Scrapper/Brute/Stalker numbers) and put -Regen Resist AND -Rec/-END Resist here.  This is the Resilience power.  

 

Sorry, don't be mad at me but I just had to fix that. It makes zero sense that Regen would not have -recovery/-endurance resistance. It shouldn't have Elec levels of resistance, but at very least it should have Rad Armor levels of resistance.

 

52 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Fast Healing - add Slow Resist here.  Look at the name...Fast Healing.  Recovers from the slows faster too!

 

The only way I would find this something needed is if the Devs are going to still make the set a click heavy set.

 

52 minutes ago, BrandX said:

That all said...could put the slow resist in Resilience instead of Fast Healing.  Especially if avoid giving it the -Rec/-End Resist.  I'm not to worried about it myself, but I can see the arguments for it.  I wouldn't put any of it in Quick Recovery, as Stalkers don't get Quick Recovery.

 

Which needs to change, it should be added to Fast Healing. The reason they initially did not get Quick Recovery was because it was not built to be a staying power class, it was a stick and move class. Now it is very much a Scrapper'y class that would now benifit greatly with Quick Recovery built in to Fast Healing.

 

52 minutes ago, BrandX said:

Integration - Add that 50% to the percentage that can be enhanced!  What is it 100% can be enhanced while 50% can't?  Let us enhance it all!

 

To be blunt, because IH was made a click and no  longer a toggle, dare I say Integration could use another 100% on top of the current 100%, on top of the 50%.

 

52 minutes ago, BrandX said:

For Stalkers they could also combine Fast Healing and Quick Recovery into one power at half effectiveness of both powers...Fast Recovery!

 

I disagree. Half effectiveness? If the class was still a stick and move class, I could agree, however, Stalkers are not that class anymore. They require the same stats as a Scrapper. They already don't have the same hitpoints, so therefore they already do not Regen near as much HP/Sec because of this, now if you hit them with a lesser Regen, it will hit Stalkers twice as hard. I express caution in this type of thinking, Stalkers are not the sub-class they once were.

 

[BrandX]

5 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

Sorry, don't be mad at me but I just had to fix that. It makes zero sense that Regen would not have -recovery/-endurance resistance. It shouldn't have Elec levels of resistance, but at very least it should have Rad Armor levels of resistance.

 

 

The only way I would find this something needed is if the Devs are going to still make the set a click heavy set.

 

 

Which needs to change, it should be added to Fast Healing. The reason they initially did not get Quick Recovery was because it was not built to be a staying power class, it was a stick and move class. Now it is very much a Scrapper'y class that would now benifit greatly with Quick Recovery built in to Fast Healing.

 

 

To be blunt, because IH was made a click and no  longer a toggle, dare I say Integration could use another 100% on top of the current 100%, on top of the 50%.

 

 

I disagree. Half effectiveness? If the class was still a stick and move class, I could agree, however, Stalkers are not that class anymore. They require the same stats as a Scrapper. They already don't have the same hitpoints, so therefore they already do not Regen near as much HP/Sec because of this, now if you hit them with a lesser Regen, it will hit Stalkers twice as hard. I express caution in this type of thinking, Stalkers are not the sub-class they once were.

 

 

For the Resilience understand it's not that I would be against it.  I'm just not sure if it would be considered OP if it had it or not.  I feel the -Regen Resist is a little more important for a Regen tho.

As for the Slow Resist, note my changes kept it click happy as it didn't change the set in terms of how the powers work.

As for the half effectiveness, is because it would be combining two powers.  So would your idea be to give Stalkers Fast Healing and Quick Recovery in 1 power, where all else have to take 2 powers?  I just suggest the 1/2 effectiveness as a way to not try to go OP on it compared to others.  As a Scrapper/Brute I'd think one would take both powers and a Stalker would get them in 1 power plus the best stealth power in game as that second choice?  I have a Staff/Regen Stalker, would hate to try to suggest something that may be OP or unfair? 😛  In theory, a Stalker should get hit less than Scrapper and Brute, due to the added Defense, so would have less damage to regen, and as they can keep going back into Hide during combat, that should mean less AOE hits.

As for Integration, I'm sure it can be tested, but I'd hate for it to go lower, but I'd also like all my regen to be enhanced 🙂   

[Solarverse]

3 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

For the Resilience understand it's not that I would be against it.  I'm just not sure if it would be considered OP if it had it or not.  I feel the -Regen Resist is a little more important for a Regen tho.

As for the Slow Resist, note my changes kept it click happy as it didn't change the set in terms of how the powers work.

As for the half effectiveness, is because it would be combining two powers.  So would your idea be to give Stalkers Fast Healing and Quick Recovery in 1 power, where all else have to take 2 powers?  I just suggest the 1/2 effectiveness as a way to not try to go OP on it compared to others.  As a Scrapper/Brute I'd think one would take both powers and a Stalker would get them in 1 power plus the best stealth power in game as that second choice?  I have a Staff/Regen Stalker, would hate to try to suggest something that may be OP or unfair? 😛  In theory, a Stalker should get hit less than Scrapper and Brute, due to the added Defense, so would have less damage to regen, and as they can keep going back into Hide during combat, that should mean less AOE hits.

As for Integration, I'm sure it can be tested, but I'd hate for it to go lower, but I'd also like all my regen to be enhanced 🙂   

 

Other sets gave full effectiveness, where it did not get the full effectiveness was with the status resists. So not as much -Recovery/-Endurance Resists.

 

As far as keeping it a click heavy set, remember, IH was once a toggle, it was not always so click heavy. I would like to get the set back to that again, where it is not so click heavy and not so click dependent.

[BrandX]

6 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

Other sets gave full effectiveness, where it did not get the full effectiveness was with the status resists. So not as much -Recovery/-Endurance Resists.

 

As far as keeping it a click heavy set, remember, IH was once a toggle, it was not always so click heavy. I would like to get the set back to that again, where it is not so click heavy and not so click dependent.

 

I was around for all that too.  And it's not like I'm against the idea, I just see that less than likely.  My suggestions were purely on the idea of improving the set without to much reversal on it.

 

[Troo]

And that's the issue with teardowns and revamps. Gains are typically offset with losses. We're never going to get an over powered Regeneration again.

 

@Solarverse you're a turd :P

[Troo]

Improving but not revamping could include:

• Recharge & Slow debuff resistance
• Regen debuff resistance
  • recharge and regen are on theme and recharge at least will matter (regen debuff resist is overrated, there is very little -regen in the game and much of it is of a magnitude so high you'd need 99% resistance to not just be turned off) (credit Koopak for explanation)
• Reduced Animation Time Before Effect especially in Moment of Glory
  • Shortened or removed 'animation time before effect'. (Note that's not cast time, that's just how long it takes to get the damn power to start working, you can lock me up all day in a fancy animation but if its a self heal to save my life, can it please take effect quickly? I'll do the dance after, just heal me NOW) (credit Koopak for explanation)

I have no problem with a tweak or two.

[Troo]

In case anyone ends up here wondering what's also been discussed and wants to wade through a couple more threads:

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Troo

[Solarverse]

12 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

@Solarverse you're a turd 😛

 

 

Yeah, but I am wrapped up in chocolate!  😄

[Solarverse]

6 minutes ago, Troo said:

and in case anyone ends up here wondering what's been discussed in the past:

 

 

Hmmm, I really dig @Bopper's ideas on the first page of the first link. Whatever happened to Bopper, anyway? I would 100% welcome his input on this.

[Troo]

10 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

Hmmm, I really dig @Bopper's ideas on the first page of the first link. Whatever happened to Bopper, anyway? I would 100% welcome his input on this.

 

They're around. Discord maybe more so.

As long as low HP Stalkers are given consideration.. it seemed like a swell new powerset.

[BrandX]

9 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

Hmmm, I really dig @Bopper's ideas on the first page of the first link. Whatever happened to Bopper, anyway? I would 100% welcome his input on this.

 

I did like Instant Healing boosting all healing powers when in use.  That seemed like an interesting way to do things.  Boost the regen it does without changing it's owns numbers.

[FupDup]

Bopper is one of the lead power devs. He just doesn't post on the forum much. Discord is probably a better bet for reaching him. 

[lemming]

Just make Revive a toggle.

[Glacier Peak]

6 hours ago, lemming said:

Just make Revive a toggle.

Didn't they try that with Fire Armor's power? Phoenix Rising or something?

[FupDup]

22 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Didn't they try that with Fire Armor's power? Phoenix Rising or something?

No. What they did with Fire's rez is let you use it while you're still alive for weaker effect. 

 

For Regen's rez power, Sentinels already did a similar thing in that using it while alive will boost your max HP. 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_defense.regeneration.second_wind&at=sentinel

[BrandX]

Regen has Dull Pain, Revive doesn't need the +HP to use it early.  Not sure it needs ANOTHER clickie heal either 😛

[Sir Myshkin]

On 9/4/2023 at 1:48 AM, Troo said:

What could be achieved by level 25:

Don't forget level 50 (w/o Incarnates or other clicks active) 😁

[Saiyajinzoningen]

wow theres so much to unpack here

 

Its very hard to suggest something that hasn't been suggested before

I've noticed that most sets have a weakness that requires patching.

For dark and fire its Knockback

for rad its cold

for invuln its psi

elec has toxic weakness iirc

 

What if.......

we reverted instant healing to its old glory days with 1 caveat.

a very very large endurance cost.

Players could still patch it up but at the cost of slots/powers they would use on other stats.

[BrandX]

32 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

wow theres so much to unpack here

 

Its very hard to suggest something that hasn't been suggested before

I've noticed that most sets have a weakness that requires patching.

For dark and fire its Knockback

for rad its cold

for invuln its psi

elec has toxic weakness iirc

 

What if.......

we reverted instant healing to its old glory days with 1 caveat.

a very very large endurance cost.

Players could still patch it up but at the cost of slots/powers they would use on other stats.

 

Electric has more holes than a Toxic Weakness.  Fear.  Knockback (Electric's KB Resist is limited, but better than nothing).  Can't recall if Electric's Immobilization Protection has the same weakness as it's KB, but I also have Combat Jumping in the build.

Then there's confuse, taunt...and how much resist does one need to not be considered a weakness anymore?  We do know, for resist sets, always best to max out the resists.

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

What if.......

we reverted instant healing to its old glory days with 1 caveat.

a very very large endurance cost.

It had a very large endurance cost, and people were still willing to 6-slot it (either 4 End/2 Heal or 3 End/3 Heal) to bring the End cost down to be kept up all the time, with Conserve Power being a popular epic pool pick. The original devs thought that the ruinous End cost would keep players from running it except when needed, but it was treated as an expensive but necessary toggle to keep running.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

50 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

It had a very large endurance cost, and people were still willing to 6-slot it (either 4 End/2 Heal or 3 End/3 Heal) to bring the End cost down to be kept up all the time, with Conserve Power being a popular epic pool pick. The original devs thought that the ruinous End cost would keep players from running it except when needed, but it was treated as an expensive but necessary toggle to keep running.

 

oh, didn't know that. 

apologies for the red herring

[TheZag]

On 9/4/2023 at 12:10 PM, FupDup said:

Bopper is one of the lead power devs. He just doesn't post on the forum much. Discord is probably a better bet for reaching him. 

 

You are thinking Booper (2 o's, 1 p).  Bopper (2 p's, 1 o) isnt a member of the homecoming team but he does know pretty much all the inner workings of the games combat formulas.