issue 27 Focused Feedback: Advanced Difficulty Improvements & New Reward Currency

[arthurh35353]

They just don't fit as the newest, highest tier reward. I really does seem like the developers put their sweat and blood into this and it's a big thing, so it's fitting that it gets it's own mechanism to earn.

 

I still don't think it matches 'hardest content rules' where you are trying to get the best unlocks in recipes and incarnate abilities to survive. 

 

It doesn't have anything to do with the hardest content... except for being 'new'.

[brattycommissar2]

for what it matters, really like this, like that you can get the salvage like halloween salvage but it's a single thing, like that you can just sell it, like that you can just -buy- it, like that everyone can get something out of it with or without doing the content that drops it, love what it can be spent on, all in all think this is a great addition

[Cobalt Arachne]

1 hour ago, arthurh35353 said:

I still don't think it matches 'hardest content rules' where you are trying to get the best unlocks in recipes and incarnate abilities to survive. 

When we added Advanced Difficulty modes we stated that it would not be content that people would feel forced into because it gave exclusive power growth rewards, and that still holds true. It was the reason we went with optional vanity rewards for it instead, lucrative and profitable but not something that puts you behind if you just decide to ignore them.

[ShardWarrior]

On 7/12/2022 at 4:27 PM, Cobalt Arachne said:

If you're asking about why we don't give everything to everyone for free, that's because we already do, that's already available for literally everyone at all times on Brainstorm. Everyone is welcome to go play on Brainstorm where they can experience everything this game has to offer without any restrictions or effort.

 

Serious question - have you all ever given any thought as to why not everyone plays on Brainstorm if they can instantly have everything they want?  Clearly the ability exists on Brainstorm, yet very few take advantage of it.  I think that is telling. 

 

As for the new currency, seems ok to me.  Advanced difficulty is something I personally run once or twice for badges, then do not bother with after.  Kudos to those who enjoy it and I hope this option gets added to more content, although I admit I would not want to see a Relentless level Positron or Synapse...

Edited July 19, 2022 by ShardWarrior

[Telephone]

5 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

Serious question - have you all ever given any thought as to why not everyone plays on Brainstorm if they can instantly have everything they want?  Clearly the ability exists on Brainstorm, yet very few take advantage of it.  I think that is telling. 

 

As for the new currency, seems ok to me.  Advanced difficulty is something I personally run once or twice for badges, then do not bother with after.  Kudos to those who enjoy it and I hope this option gets added to more content, although I admit I would not want to see a Relentless level Positron or Synapse...

 

I look forward to Relentless Dr Q.

 

And yes, we definitely know why not everyone plays on Brainstorm - fundamentally people like to feel like they've earned things. The difficulty of earning things is always a hard choice - but as other developers have mentioned in this thread, it's very likely the biggest fountain of Aether will be mission completions, so they will always be available, even if not at a guaranteed rate.

[ShardWarrior]

10 hours ago, Telephone said:

I look forward to Relentless Dr Q.

 

Ugh!!!  I will pass on that one.  🤣

 

10 hours ago, Telephone said:

And yes, we definitely know why not everyone plays on Brainstorm - fundamentally people like to feel like they've earned things.

 

Thank you.  I sincerely hope that the folks who like to think everyone wants "easy mode" and an instant "I win!" button read this.

[AlwaysAPrice]

Really minor note from checking out its Info, the new currency has a "salvage class" identical to its name:

Quote

PRISMATIC AETHER PARTICLE

Prismatic Aether Particle

Looking through what I had on hand on a 50, this seems to otherwise be the case only for enhancement-modifying salvage (Boosters/Catalysts/Enhancements/Unslotters), while anything that's a currency ( ___ Merits, Brainstorm Ideas) is normally classed as "Special Salvage".

 

Very entertained by the small chance for any mission completion to drop Aether, because I just got my first at level 5 from...meeting the Shining Stars. I can totally see myself making decisions about what lore elements and enemy groups to tie my character's story to based on what content ends up randomly dropping Aether for them as they level, marking those as fateful moments.

[GM Kal]

On 7/19/2022 at 12:19 AM, arthurh35353 said:

If it was really just supposed to be for fun, make it drop from level one and not be tied to the hardest modes at all.

To be clear, it does drop from level 1 on per the patch notes.
So doing hard content is not required to obtain them.

 

Quote

•  The standard bonus from completing a mission map at any level includes a 1 in 50 (2%) chance to drop a Prismatic Aether Particle.

 

[arthurh35353]

Maybe it's a presentation point, as they are being presented as the new higher amounts for the harder modes? When it should actually be 'the new hard modes gives bonus XP, threads, emps/shards and we made sure to include prismatic aether particles.'.

 

Of course, the 2% chance to get one on completion of a normal mission kind of makes it 'yeah, it's there, but you'll never really earn it by playing the game in normal mode'.

 

Edit: In fact, at 2% chance on completion of a mission map and at least 10 Prismatic Aether Particles at a base of 10 PAPs, that means you need at least 50-100 mission completes (and RNG may hate you so more) for 1 basic transmog.

 

While it's there and earning, it really does sound like just playing the game is the slowest and hardest way to earn PAPs. 😕

Edited July 21, 2022 by arthurh35353
added comment

[Sovera]

14 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

Maybe it's a presentation point, as they are being presented as the new higher amounts for the harder modes? When it should actually be 'the new hard modes gives bonus XP, threads, emps/shards and we made sure to include prismatic aether particles.'.

 

Of course, the 2% chance to get one on completion of a normal mission kind of makes it 'yeah, it's there, but you'll never really earn it by playing the game in normal mode'.

 

Edit: In fact, at 2% chance on completion of a mission map and at least 10 Prismatic Aether Particles at a base of 10 PAPs, that means you need at least 50-100 mission completes (and RNG may hate you so more) for 1 basic transmog.

 

While it's there and earning, it really does sound like just playing the game is the slowest and hardest way to earn PAPs. 😕

 

Can still buy all those mogs off the AH once players start putting them up.

[arthurh35353]

14 minutes ago, Sovera said:

 

Can still buy all those mogs off the AH once players start putting them up.

Yeah, I wish I had that much INF to just buy the shiny toys. 

[Grouchybeast]

3 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

Yeah, I wish I had that much INF to just buy the shiny toys. 

 

It depends on the AH price, which depends on supply and demand.  I don't think I could even start to make the vaguest guess as to how many players would want how many costumes on how many characters.  The good news is that the drop rates can always be adjusted later.

[ivanhedgehog]

On 7/12/2022 at 3:35 PM, AustinSmith said:

Has in part to do with evaluating the power level of your team. Some teams compositions are simply not capable of completing 4-star mode for instance, if they don't have all their incarnates maxed or completed builds. The lower difficulties allow characters that aren't fully built to still have access to accruing rewards even if they can't handle the higher difficulties.

so people will start excluding people that arent maxed out? is that the game we want or is that an attempt to copy wow?

[Cobalt Arachne]

53 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

so people will start excluding people that arent maxed out? is that the game we want or is that an attempt to copy wow?

This is an odd thing to say, the game already excludes players from content if they aren't high enough level (Task Forces), and another that excludes players who don't have the required Incarnate slots (Magisterium). MMOs in general are all about building a stronger character in order to access higher tiers of content.

Homecoming players already have very affordable access to Incarnate powers and superior IO enhancements vs. how things used to be on the retail servers, is it that strange that we would design a category of optional content specifically-balanced around Homecoming's power environment so characters who are fully built have somewhere to actually make use of that power growth in a meaningful manner?

Advanced Difficulty came about due to a large demand for an area of content in this game that actually made use of the full strength granted to players by Incarnate powers and the accessibility of IO's.

There's a lot of people who desired more engagement at max level beyond teams rotating Judgements to mostly wipe-out mobs effortlessly and nothing posing any threat. For those who don't want a challenge, they don't have to play Advanced Difficulty content, it rewards nothing they can't get elsewhere.

[brattycommissar2]

honestly that we're getting more and more of this stuff is exciting, i'm genuinely hoping we get what amounts to advanced difficulty radios / papers too for quick bite sized ultra hard things that can be come and go without it being a huge time investment, even if the rewards are only a little ( or not any ) better than standard radios / papers

[arthurh35353]

Eh, my SG attempted a Relentless ASF and bounced hard off of Vanguard. Our two Sentinels, even fairly kitted out dragged the team down.

[Cobalt Arachne]

18 hours ago, FriezaReturns00001 said:

Question dunno if you or the team can answer this but, have you + the dev team ran through the Four star/ Imperious? What parts did you like the most about it in general? 

That's always an interesting question since we experience the content differently as creators (mostly via test runs), but I always enjoy coming up with ways to make each content piece distinct via unique mechanics like the Brickernaut self-destruct explosions or the hostless Nictus body stealing, and then seeing how players respond/adapt to them.

 

[Bionic_Flea]

In other words, Cobalt likes to see us suffer and cry and uses that energy to power a yet-to-be-revealed secret weapon!

[Ukase]

So, this is a thought, and I don't think I'm the only one to think it. 
It may be due to learning curve (and my overall disdain for the normal ITF due to the senseless screaming by some npcs), but with regards to the rewards:

 

Why is the hard mode ITF half as many Prismatic Aether Particles when it takes twice as long to run? They should at least be the same, if not more PAPs. 
I mean, with Aeon, you can incan the team (assuming you know where to go, and skip quite a lot, safely, effectively). 
In the HMITF, you pretty much have to kill your way through for the most part. And it may be that we'll get used to some of the mechanics like the Hostless Nictus...Nicti? And it may not take as long, but it certainly seems harder (and longer) to me than ASF. 

Obviously, opinions will vary, and some folks probably don't zip past parts of ASF and suffer as much as they would during the Hard Mode ITF. But I am curious as to why the rewards are half given the likely time differences in running them. 

 

[Marshal_General]

On 7/23/2022 at 9:58 AM, Bionic_Flea said:

In other words, Cobalt likes to see us suffer and cry and uses that energy to power a yet-to-be-revealed secret weapon!

The giant tear cannon on the super secret moon base?

[Cobalt Arachne]

On 8/15/2022 at 4:58 PM, Ukase said:

Obviously, opinions will vary, and some folks probably don't zip past parts of ASF and suffer as much as they would during the Hard Mode ITF. But I am curious as to why the rewards are half given the likely time differences in running them. 

Originally it was decided using the count of AV-types you fought... But looking at the list again, and after the ITF had the extra AVs added + the ASF's original list actually included the optional ripple AV you can skip... If we exclude those, the list is actually fairly equal.

Advanced Difficulty Dr. Aeon's Strike Force required AV fights:

1. Cauldron Champ Frobe
2. Princess Zoe
3. Golden Roller
4. Mr. Rodney
5. Apex (Counted since while technically skippable, only doable by failing the ripple timer at 45 minutes, which isn't practical.)
6. Ripplesurge
7. Princess Zoe
8. Mr. Rodney
9. King Midas
10. Dr. Zeon

Advanced Difficulty Imperious Task Force required AV fights:

1. Requiem
2. Romulus Augustus
3. Romulus Phalanx Computer
4. Laeva
5. Dextro
6. Vandal
7. N.Romulus Augustus kill #1
8. N.Romulus Augustus kill #2
9. N.Romulus Augustus kill #3
10. N.Romulus Augustus kill #4
     

I'll see about bumping the ITF's PAP payout to be equal to the ASF's.

[EmperorSteele]

10 minutes ago, Cobalt Arachne said:

 

I'll see about bumping the ITF's PAP payout to be equal to the ITF.

 

o_o

[Cobalt Arachne]

8 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

 

o_o

Why that response? I explained how the payout numbers were calculated.

Just noticed my typo lmao. Haven't had my morning caffeine yet. 😴

Thanks!

[UltraAlt]

I haven't posted on this thread yet because I don't play end-game content very often.

 

Due to the way that many players are currently playing City of Heroes (power-leveling to 50), I think is very important to give end-game players time-consuming content to keep them busy.

 

I would reduce rewards and/or increase the new currency cost of unlocks in order to increase the time needed to complete all the rewards. I say this, because I think it is clear that at least some players are going to try to steamroll through unlocking everything they can as quickly as possible.  Making it too easy to complete defeats the reason for the addition of the content.

 

I'm pretty sure that this currency is going to be setup so it can't be traded between characters, and I do think that is the best way to handle this kind of content so that players can't farm the rewards and pass them along to other characters.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by UltraAlt
fixed some confusing wording

[Seed22]

54 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

I haven't posted on this thread yet because I don't play end-game content very often.

 

Even though I don't play the end-game, due to the way that many players are currently playing City of Heroes, I think is very important to give end-game players time-consuming content to keep them busy.

 

I would reduce rewards and/or increase the new currency cost of unlocks in order to increase the time needed to complete all the rewards. I say this, because I think it is clear that at least some players are going to try to steamroll through unlocking everything they can as quickly as possible.  Making it too easy to complete defeats the reason for the addition of the content.

I'm pretty sure that this currency is going to be setup so it can't be traded between characters, and I do think that is the best way to handle this kind of content.

I get what you’re trying to say, but because you dont play endgame, you have no idea how difficult this content ACTUALLY is.

 

Let me tell you as someone who does? It’s not easy and folks wont be steamrolling through it. 
 

Also, the fact I can just trade the PAPs means this would be invalidated immediately as a solution