Are Freakshow good annoying or just annoying annoying?

[UltraAlt]

22 hours ago, DougGraves said:

Freakshow are very different to fight than other villain groups.  Does that make them an interesting challenge or just annoying?

 

I don't mind fighting them, but then I don't avoid fighting Malta either.

[srmalloy]

17 hours ago, Tachstar said:

Like those CoT demon guys from the portals. I

The PORTALS themselves, on the other hand, are a good source of XP; back on Live, I would farm the six-portal room with any character that had a good hold -- lock down the portal, and it doesn't summon XP-free Behemoths.

[ForeverLaxx]

17 hours ago, Tachstar said:

Sky Raider Engineers that annoy me the most. I always try to target them first and take em out before they call down that blankety blank bubble doohickey, but sometimes they get lucky

If it helps you deal with them, you don't have to defeat them before the FFG is summoned. That summon is interruptable, meaning all you have to do is land an attack on them while they're kneeling and it stops the summon. This is especially useful if there's more than one Engineer in a spawn, since you don't know which one is going to summon in order to alpha strike it. Just aggro the group and throw out an AoE (or damage aura) to stop them.

 

Damage zones are especially effective since you can deploy them preemptively and any tic from that zone will stop them. Caltrops, Rain of Fire, anything. I'm almost positive even non-damage powers will work like Quicksand and Tar Patch, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

[Erratic1]

1 hour ago, tidge said:

Freaks are fine. As for game mechanics, I have no issues with them. If anything, I'd like to see more stuns added to their arsenal. Similar to Freak, I like the challenges that Arachnos brings.

 

More annoying: Carnies that phase shift.

 

Exact opposite here. Arachnos blind, and that is, "stand there and be a victim" unless you have a supply of yellows up your sleeve. Carnies just mean standing around until they phase back in and then beating them down for making you wait.

[Tiger Shadow]

The Freakshow rez is really annoying when I do 5 or 10 Freakshow missions, switch to Malta, and then waste time after every spawn waiting to see if the Malta will rez or not.

[srmalloy]

3 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:

I'm almost positive even non-damage powers will work like Quicksand and Tar Patch, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

I won't swear to it, but I seem to remember that any effect that gets applied to the Engineer (aside from basic aggro trigger) will interrupt the FFG summons. But better than interrupting them is to confuse them, making the summoned FFG friendly, protecting you and your team.

[Redletter]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:44 AM, Greycat said:

The only thing annoying about Freakshow is when you deliberately knock a Super Stunner away so it doesn't rez and a teammate goes chasing it like a hyperactive puppy chasing a rubber ball. Sadly we don't get to spray other players with a water bottle.

 

Well you see, it's really your fault. You used knockback. EVERYONE knows that knockback is bad, has no purpose, and is only used by jerk hacker trolls to RUIN normal people's gaming experience. Tactical Enemy Repositioning DOES NOT exist, you see, and you really should have known better. The GMs have been alerted. You're done for.

 

On 11/2/2022 at 7:59 AM, DougGraves said:

END drain.  Self healing.  Self rez.  Self rez with aoe stun.

 

Freakshow are very different to fight than other villain groups.  Does that make them an interesting challenge or just annoying?

 

====

 

I don't mind the END drain.  I like it as a change to how I fight.  I have to use blue inspirations.  And it makes Elec Defenders really welcome on a team.  

 

The self healing I find makes me change how I play.  I have to make sure they go down fast and not leave wounded ones to self heal.  

 

But the self rezzing I find annoying.  I wish the minions self rezzed and not the bosses.  Too often on teams most people have moved on and one hero is left getting beaten up by a boss that rezzed and stunned them.   Since bosses get defeated last, it is usually just a lone boss self-rezzing and dragging a fight out.

I feel like the End drain is too much. Like, either LESS freaks should have it, or, the AMOUNT of End drained needs to be adjusted. Because they can literally hit you with one S U C C and turn off every toggle you have, and stop you from using powers -- there's very few powersets that get and End drain, and MOST of those sets inthemselves have protection from end drain to begin with? So it's like... Play elec armor or suck I guess? I dunno. I don't like that every Yin I play, i end up needing to pick up an Insp.Dish full of blues just so I don't have to worry about an SR toon dying outright.

 

Furthermore, while i do love elec affinity in all it's forms, it kinda sucks that it's like... the only powerset able to restore endurance? If not, it seems to be the most efficient at it. Whatever the case, it's a great powerset overall so it's not uncommon to see and the community seems to see the annoyances with end drain so much, to the point where I've not a single Yin TF that did not have an elec defender or controll tagging along. I'm halfway convinced there's a cabal of elec afinity users who, like real super heroes, exist to help in times of need for endurance. Like those people who set up on a marathon route with water and granola bars.

 

I don't mind the self rez, i think that's cool, and it's a chance for double EXP so, hey, that's neat I'm honestly shocked (ha) that Vaz folk don't have similar powers.

 

But what ISNT neat is kill all freak missions, where you'll move on, freaks will rez because it takes a few seconds for them to decide if theyre gonna do it or not, then you have to backtrack through and find the ones who stood back up, but DIDNT stay aggro'd on you and went back to roaming the map idly. I think it'd be nice if we just set some kind of parameter that a freak at like... 70% health has an aggro range of elventy bajillion miles, because freaks at 70% health are freaks that are either currently being engaged, or, freaks that are getting back up. I dunno. I know it's an enormous annoyance to what already feels like annoying busy work.

 

8 hours ago, tidge said:

More annoying: Carnies that phase shift. These bother me much more that Council Ascendants (predictable) or Tsoo Sorcerers (predictable, reasonably quick to return, can be chased) or Fake Nemesis (predictable). One of the things I dislike about the Carnies is that it always feels like they trigger their phase shift cycling in a very 'meta' way that pulls me out of the game. Part of the issue for me is that this is so clearly an effort to be a different mechanic to deal with in combat, but it is NOT a mechanic that offers any real chance of success if it were to be used by a player (in PvE or PvP); it's simply griefing

I know a while back I suggested that Illusion Control get a single target phase shift. Giving the set that has many powers in common with carnies, the utility to FIGHT carnies would make a lot of sense to me. I'm not entirely sure HOW phase shift works, in that like, I don't know if you HAD the phase shift power, if you could then hit a phase shifted carnie.

 

I'm not sure how "meta" it feels, but i do know what you mean. Everytime I go for a double build upped Level 3 Combo Crushing Uppercut, seems to be PRECISELY when they wanna bug out. MY main problem with them is that their phase shift lasts for what feels like several minutes. It feels more like one of those "im unhittable now" armor powers that Paragon Protectors tend to have. It just breaks the flow of play really hard. I could understand like, an AV having such a long phase shift ability, especially since carnies are squishy enough that this would be a great way to make a carnie AV 'tankier' than they should be, but like... pretty much all their casters get it, and it takes eons to clear.

 

I wouldn't mind if I knew there was something I could do about it. Like, if i knew the Phase Shift power, or that one power gravity control gets creates a dome of phase shift, would let me hurt them. But I have never gotten confirmation if this is true or not.

8 hours ago, tidge said:

The Nemesis Comets are another class of enemy that takes me out of the game. I have NO issue with the concept or implementation of their nigh-infinite perception, nor with the attack... I just find it absurd that they will start sniping from across the map but their allies in the spawn won't also start engaging. This bothered me slightly less before the range of (fast) snipes was reduced, because at least then I felt like I could engage in a sort of duel with them. Mechanically, I grok them... it's just that in actual play they feel quite jarring.

I hate any enemy that utterly invalidates an entire playstyle. Comets, Beholders, and these various other sniper/assassin-y types with literally 90 lorillion vision makes stalkers, as a class, entirely meaningless. I appreciate the sniper duels we can get into, but, not so much that i would argue there should be enemies that just by existing make an entire class gimmick meaningless.

[twozerofoxtrot]

Well.

 

I can't pretend to know the original design intent, but it seems pretty clear to me that Freakshow are in a graduated tier of enemies that players are set to encounter in the 20-40s (primarily) that were designed to challenge semi-complete power builds and demonstrate where some builds and ATs shine versus others.

 

For example, if you were playing a claws/invul scrapper, you were set to have a bad time. Lots of S/L resist, end drain, and the aforementioned heals and rezzes. Frustrating. 

 

But as an Energy/Energy hover blaster? Heyyyyy, what's the big deal? These guys take a pounding from Energy, and they can't heal when they're stunned or on their butts!

 

-----

 

I think these principles still basically apply. Freaks don't really do much that's especially threatening, so it's fine they're a bit of a chore to fight. That's their niche. 

 

 

[Biff Pow]

I like the Freaks, they're easy and a lot of xp. I usually gain an entire level just from the first mission of the Freakalympics arc (rescue and lead out three hostages, lots of ambushes.) And you can usually avoid their heals if you time your attacks right (on Minions and Lts. anyway.)

[Vanden]

Freakshow are my favorite enemy to fight. The Super Stunners are a little off, though.  Their rez shouldn't be autohit, it shouldn't go off the instant they go down, and they shouldn't be able to rez off pets or other NPCs. It's also basically impossible to prevent a rez on a team, somebody's gonna be in range when they go down.

[KaizenSoze]

6 hours ago, Vanden said:

Freakshow are my favorite enemy to fight. The Super Stunners are a little off, though.  Their rez shouldn't be autohit, it shouldn't go off the instant they go down, and they shouldn't be able to rez off pets or other NPCs. It's also basically impossible to prevent a rez on a team, somebody's gonna be in range when they go down.

I find it you inform folks up front about Super stunner rez, most people will back away at the right time.

 

The number of targets hit determines the Super Stunners health. So, if only one person gets hit, then you end up with a very low hp Super Stunner, which is quick exp.

 

Alas, melee heavy groups or masterminds generally aren't great about moving out of range. But most players understand.

[gamingglen]

23 hours ago, Supertanker said:

I like the Freaks, they're easy and a lot of xp. I usually gain an entire level just from the first mission of the Freakalympics arc (rescue and lead out three hostages, lots of ambushes.) And you can usually avoid their heals if you time your attacks right (on Minions and Lts. anyway.)

 

Are you (not just the person I'm responding to) people that stupid?  Someone already explained that you get 80% XP from Freaks compared to other mobs. Add in the 20% rez average of Freaks, the XP is the same as other mobs. (notice: 80% + 20% = 100%... simple math, people).   gad...   

 

 

Yeah, this is a hostile post, but I'm effin' tired of people telling me that Freaks are double XP. They are not.  They are annoyingly annoying. 

[Black Zot]

There is no "good" form of annoying.  There are things that annoy, and things that do not.

[DougGraves]

On 11/3/2022 at 11:20 AM, Redletter said:

I don't mind the self rez, i think that's cool, and it's a chance for double EXP so, hey, that's neat I'm honestly shocked (ha) that Vaz folk don't have similar powers.

 

Mortificators can revive abominations, so Vahz have a rez but not a self rez.

[Seed22]

13 hours ago, gamingglen said:

 

Are you (not just the person I'm responding to) people that stupid?  Someone already explained that you get 80% XP from Freaks compared to other mobs. Add in the 20% rez average of Freaks, the XP is the same as other mobs. (notice: 80% + 20% = 100%... simple math, people).   gad...   

 

 

Yeah, this is a hostile post, but I'm effin' tired of people telling me that Freaks are double XP. They are not.  They are annoyingly annoying. 

Well consider several things:

Most people dont read everyone’s post, and y’all dont exactly get to the point well, at all.

Lots of folks dont come to the forums.
 

And if they do they probably do like me; Skim a thread or two, see if a patch dropped, or get a build or update info(though to be fair I prefer making my own builds or using Discord.). Most dont spend all their time during a day here.

 

Most people dont like reading IRL. I’ve been shocked at the fact lots of people don’t read almost at all unless required. Not to say folks here are all like that, just an observation in general.

 

I consider anyone who gets overly worked up on CoH to be stupid. We’ve all been stupid before 😛

Edited November 5, 2022 by Seed22

[MHertz]

How desirable an enemy is for farming isn’t the same as how fun they are to fight. I like that the Freakshow are smashing/lethal/energy and not a whole plethora of damage types. No toxic, no psi. The fact that they get up sometimes, that’s just to keep you on your toes. If you have a couple holds on the group and you’re judicious about locking down problematic Super Stunners, it’s okay. Nemesis is usually on the same plane, except when the snipers have an advantage of location that’s hard to get around. Crey’s Paragon Protectors are pussycats if you hold them before you deliver the beatdown.

 

Carnies are annoying because you can’t lock down everything that’s a problem. Arachnos, same. Vahzilok, double ditto, plus they do toxic damage and explode and rez, which is a lot for heroes of that level.

Edited November 5, 2022 by MHertz

[Akalabeth]

I dunno, man, but their drugs are good. 😀

[PoptartsNinja]

Freakshow are fun.

They're like CoH's version of goblins. The only thing I feel the Freaks really "need" is an anarchist AV from the Rogue Isles who's really big into punching Arachnos and hates the rest of the Freakshow leadership for being fake anarchists.

 

And their own giant monster.

 

And maybe the long-awaited Freakshow Centcars (Tank + Car Centaurs). We had a fight with Golden Roller so maybe someday...

[Biff Pow]

17 hours ago, gamingglen said:

 

Are you (not just the person I'm responding to) people that stupid?  Someone already explained that you get 80% XP from Freaks compared to other mobs. Add in the 20% rez average of Freaks, the XP is the same as other mobs. (notice: 80% + 20% = 100%... simple math, people).   gad...   

 

 

Yeah, this is a hostile post, but I'm effin' tired of people telling me that Freaks are double XP. They are not.  They are annoyingly annoying. 

 

Well first, the 80% isn't really accurate, but more importantly, it doesn't apply to Bosses, which is where the real xp is. 

[MistressOhm]

On 11/5/2022 at 1:07 PM, PoptartsNinja said:

Freakshow Centcars

It's been done. 🙂 

 

 

[PoptartsNinja]

14 hours ago, MistressOhm said:

It's been done. 🙂 

I thought you might've been referring to Bonebreaker!

 

[TheMoncrief]

On 11/2/2022 at 11:07 AM, Mister Mass said:

I find that Defeat All missions with Freakshow are annoying.  Inevitably I find that I have to resweep the whole map to find the Freakshow boss that self-rezzed after I defeated him & his spawn & left him "arrested" face down chewing carpet. 😠

Defeat All missions are inherently annoying in the first place. I've come to accept them, but I'll never like them. Especially in outdoor maps. Most especially when they are timed. Worst of all when the mission pretends it has other goals then springs a "Defeat All" on you after you complete the actual listed mission objectives.

 

I don't fine Freakshow to be just annoying. Yes, the endurance drain is a challenge, and the self rez can be an issue too. But it's only the Super Stunners who really strike me as pure BS, and they are usually rare enough that they don't make me hate the world.

[RikOz]

On 11/3/2022 at 5:43 AM, tidge said:

More annoying: Carnies that phase shift. These bother me much more that Council Ascendants (predictable) or Tsoo Sorcerers (predictable, reasonably quick to return, can be chased) or Fake Nemesis (predictable). One of the things I dislike about the Carnies is that it always feels like they trigger their phase shift cycling in a very 'meta' way that pulls me out of the game. Part of the issue for me is that this is so clearly an effort to be a different mechanic to deal with in combat, but it is NOT a mechanic that offers any real chance of success if it were to be used by a player (in PvE or PvP); it's simply griefing

I've come up with a few tricks that are about 90% effective in taking out those Illusionists before they can phase shift. What always annoyed me most, though, were the Master Illusionist's illusions that persisted for way too long after the MI herself was defeated. Aside from the question of whether they were actually "illusions" or "summons", i.e. how does she maintain these "illusions" when she's unconscious?, there was the problem of those Phantasm illusions then summoning their own "Decoy Phantasm" illusions that can harm me, but I can't harm them back, and that would persist long after both the Master Illusionist and the Phantasm had been defeated. Particularly annoying on certain hero alignment missions where they're guarding a hostage, and I can't rescue the hostage until that Decoy Phantasm is gone, so all I can do is get out of range and twiddle my thumbs for the next three minutes until the thing finally despawns on its own. Thankfully, it appears that the HC devs have addressed that last issue, because the Decoys seem to go away a lot faster now than they used to.

 

 

On 11/3/2022 at 8:22 AM, Tiger Shadow said:

The Freakshow rez is really annoying when I do 5 or 10 Freakshow missions, switch to Malta, and then waste time after every spawn waiting to see if the Malta will rez or not.

This right here! After a few Freak missions, I'm usually halfway through the next non-Freak mission before I remember that I don't have to wait around to see if they rez.

 

One thing that bugs me about the rezzing is that it seems the OG devs sometimes adjusted the rez frequency on a mission-by-mission basis. For example, there's one hero alignment mission where Frostfire is partying with the Freakshow, and I've consistently noticed that the Freaks in that mission almost never rez.

 

On 11/3/2022 at 11:20 AM, Redletter said:

Comets, Beholders, and these various other sniper/assassin-y types with literally 90 lorillion vision makes stalkers, as a class, entirely meaningless. I appreciate the sniper duels we can get into, but, not so much that i would argue there should be enemies that just by existing make an entire class gimmick meaningless.

Oh god, I kept running into this situation where, when trying to talk to Peter Stemitz in Founders Falls, somebody kept blasting the hell out of me. I finally located him - one of those Comets consistently spawning on the roof of a building directly opposite Stemitz (behind you, if you're facing Stemitz). It was immensely satisfying once I remembered to check for the Comet there before talking to Stemitz - punching him over the side and then flying down and pounding him into the pavement!

 

Regarding "make an entire class gimmick meaningless", I complained about this same issue with rogues in WoW. There would be an occasional tough monster that you couldn't sneak up on, because it had to be "summoned", and the act of summoning would take you out of stealth. So the monster would appear and spot you immediately, so there goes your basic class mechanic of "sneak up and hit them with an immensely strong attack before they see it coming" out the window.

 

(On a more amusing note, I found it extremely annoying, from an RP perspective, when my rogue would stealth into a friendly shop, and the shopkeeper would immediately shout, "WELCOME, ROGUE!. Apparently, you can't be stealthy around friendlies.)

Edited November 8, 2022 by RikOz

[MistressOhm]

Once I got to a level where I could take on the FF snipers (Nemmie Comets and Crey Vigilant Snipers), I'd put up Steamy Mist and hover around looking for them.  Then I'd pop Lightning Storm right on top of them and watch them get slammed off the roof.   Comedy Gold.  🙂

 

One thing about the WoW Rogue class was that it was also a CC class, so those 'summoned' monsters didn't bug me as much.  Any kind of stun or blindness or what have you, would be enough to get behind them and land a critical.   But, I went with the Poisons subclass more often than not, and there was a Paralytic poison you could use, ANY attack had a high chance of stunlocking even if your main method of stun was on cooldown.  

 

I always liked games that recognize you using a power or in a specific state, like the Campus Security at the Paragon University.  If you're using SJ he tells you not to super-jump off the roofs cos of the noise, no superspeeding in the halls, et cetera.   Now I'll need to bring a stalker in to see if he reacts to stealth powers.  🙂 

Edited November 8, 2022 by MistressOhm

[FoxyPrime]

Annoying Annoying. The self-res just makes them more tedious to fight. The gimmick got old very fast.