Why so long for game evolvement?

[Gobbledygook]

Completely agree with @Mjolnerd

Another issuee that I have personally with Discord is the app.

I don't like apps on my phone.

If Discord allowed you to go to the website on a moblie device, then I might be willing to try it out.

[Gobbledygook]

10 hours ago, Gulbasaur said:

Most of that discussion goes on in the closed beta discord, which is very active.

 

Instructions for joining can be found by searching the forums and entry is done in cycles but there's a "no spoilers on the main forums" rule that is pretty well kept.

 

Basically, the discussions do happen and it's interesting being part of the testing process and seeing ideas that didn't work out etc, but they happen in an environment that doesn't take up space in the main forums.

 

At the sound of sounding like I have no search-fu skills at all, can you point me to the starting line? I'll run the race myself after that.

[Zect]

Interesting post. I don't see this as drama, necessarily; a lot of hobbyist projects (even some commercial games) communicate much more frequently with their users, so someone unfamiliar with the cadence of content release here would naturally wonder what is up.

 

As has been explained upthread, HC's style is to release content in large, substantial and well-tested patches to emulate a commercial MMO's release schedule (at a slower cadence). The HC team seems to prefer the demeanor of a commercial development studio, and they keep their cards very close to their chests. Thunderspy and Rebirth play a lot more fast and loose with changes, and are closer to other hobbyist/open source projects in that regard.

 

Each approach has its own advantage, and I don't think one is necessarily "better". I think it's great that all the servers have their own style, and their own strengths (HC has a very professional network/database side, while other servers' strength lies in costume pieces and other creative things, etc.). And it's normal in these kinds of fan communities for people to be irritated especially when they're repeatedly asked "hey, why aren't you doing this thing the way those other people are?", but remember, competition and comparison between servers is healthy and benefits all. The best way forward for coh is a variety of different servers, each appealing to a different kind of player, attempting to present the best possible gameplay experience. In game as in life, diversity is strength.

[carroto]

4 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

But I would still bet that our evolution of New Powers, TFs, Story Arcs, Base Stuff, etc. are equal to if not better than any other server.

 

I can't say, that may be true overall.  Depending on what you're after though other servers may indeed have more.  Check the patch notes for Rebirth.  If costumes are your thing they have done way more.

[carroto]

3 hours ago, nihilii said:

I get the temptation to try different private servers but I always stop short because there's so many hoops to jump.

 

I'm on Linux which makes it more difficult.  I thought I'd try one of the others out recently but for no reason I could discern it won't run for me.  I posted on their forums and got no response.  So that's that I guess.

[Luminara]

7 hours ago, GM Impervium said:

"Soon (tm)" is kind of a tired meme by this point

[SaintD]

7 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Having previous experience running a private server for another MMO, and being a mod author for a number of other games I can tell you that there's a huge time requirement that goes into not just coming up with the idea for what new feature or asset that you want, but coding it in, making a model, textures, sound files, testing it, finding out something went wrong, going back trying to fix it and breaking something else, coming back to fix that, retesting it, then deciding to change up a core function of what you were originally trying to do and retesting, etc., only hoping at the end of the cycle you have something that you feel confident enough for a public release.

 

Then you end up having other people picking apart your efforts, maybe some good comments, or catching a big here and there, but also some trolls and such as well. Then you go back and fix it again.

 

Sometimes you're never content with it and keep adding new things year after year and so on.

 

Then you realize that you're not being paid for any of that, you're married, have a full time job, a baby, a dog, and maybe occasionally want to catch a hockey game if at the end of the day you're not ready to wrap up in blankets in the fetal position to reset and do it all again.

 

At the end of the day, we as players aren't owed anything. We're playing a dead game being resuscitated at the hospital just clinging on for a few more moments. Any changes we're given are ultimately part of the contract we accept to play on any particular server (that said I still have my hills I'm willing to die on, hello superspeed stealth exclusivity).

 

Hell, I live in China and don't even have a bank card that would work with the voluntary payment to the server costs. I'm full up parasitic on this. I'm sucking the life force out of you all every time my internet connects well enough to play.

[Gulbasaur]

8 hours ago, Gobbledygook said:

At the sound of sounding like I have no search-fu skills at all, can you point me to the starting line? I'll run the race myself after that.

There's a link in this thread in America's Angel's comment towards the end.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Gulbasaur

[Parabola]

9 hours ago, Mjolnerd said:

 

I've said it many times before, and I'm going to keep saying it. Discord is fine as a chat client, but I cannot fathom how everyone on Earth has decided it's the best way, or even a good way, to disseminate and/or archive information someone might need to refer back to more than an hour or so after the fact.

 

Just set up a website already, people.

I wish they didn't use discord too. Apart from anything else we're a small enough community as it is and splitting us between two places makes it feel even smaller.

 

For the same reason I kind of question the wisdom of the closed beta model which leads to queries like the op. I feel it's important in a small population like this to foster a sense of togetherness and dividing people up does not do this.

 

I take people's word that there are no significant barriers to entry to the closed beta. I haven't tried to join it myself mainly because it would make my hobby too much like my day job. But it does feel like too much of the community activity is sequestered away from public view and the feel of things around here suffers as a result.

[Astralock]

4 hours ago, Parabola said:

I wish they didn't use discord too. Apart from anything else we're a small enough community as it is and splitting us between two places makes it feel even smaller.

 

For the same reason I kind of question the wisdom of the closed beta model which leads to queries like the op. I feel it's important in a small population like this to foster a sense of togetherness and dividing people up does not do this.

 

I take people's word that there are no significant barriers to entry to the closed beta. I haven't tried to join it myself mainly because it would make my hobby too much like my day job. But it does feel like too much of the community activity is sequestered away from public view and the feel of things around here suffers as a result.

 

The problem is that most people under the age of 35 or so just refuse to use forums.  They find them outdated and clunky, a product of a bygone age like the rotary telephone, and much prefer Discord.  You may not agree with them, but that's been my experience as someone who admins forums.  Heck, most newer online games don't even offer forums now and only have a Discord server.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Astralock

[Gulbasaur]

32 minutes ago, Astralock said:

The problem is that most people under the age of 35 or so just refuse to use forums. 

As a person over 35, I have described this forum as a slice of "old internet" before and I don't mean that in any way negatively.

[Shred Monkey]

42 minutes ago, Astralock said:

Heck, most newer online games don't even offer forums now and only have a Discord server.

 

Or worse yet, you have to suffer through a video of some outrageous personality talking about the game with quick-cuts to memes, dorky sound effects, and repeated thankyous to sponsors and subscribers.

[Astralock]

6 minutes ago, Shred Monkey said:

 

Or worse yet, you have to suffer through a video of some outrageous personality talking about the game with quick-cuts to memes, dorky sound effects, and repeated thankyous to sponsors and subscribers.

Humorously enough, I recently found a YouTube video (only a couple of months old), from a group of it sounded like twelve year-olds covering City of Heroes.  It had all of those things.  I was glad to see kids playing CoH in this day and age, but man did it make me feel old. 

[Shred Monkey]

40 minutes ago, Astralock said:

Humorously enough, I recently found a YouTube video (only a couple of months old), from a group of it sounded like twelve year-olds covering City of Heroes.  It had all of those things.  I was glad to see kids playing CoH in this day and age, but man did it make me feel old. 

 

I recognize that video content about a game is absolutely how games grow these days.  Having a big influencer cover your game is more powerful then getting a spotlight in a big gamer magazine used to be.  But speaking as a 50 year old who's trying to find min-max data... well I'd rather spend 3 days parsing my own data then sit through 3 minutes of "content."

Edited March 3, 2023 by Shred Monkey

[Glacier Peak]

6 hours ago, Parabola said:

I wish they didn't use discord too. Apart from anything else we're a small enough community as it is and splitting us between two places makes it feel even smaller.

 

For the same reason I kind of question the wisdom of the closed beta model which leads to queries like the op. I feel it's important in a small population like this to foster a sense of togetherness and dividing people up does not do this.

 

I take people's word that there are no significant barriers to entry to the closed beta. I haven't tried to join it myself mainly because it would make my hobby too much like my day job. But it does feel like too much of the community activity is sequestered away from public view and the feel of things around here suffers as a result.

Hey the beta server is open to anyone and so is the closed beta. There isn't any sequestration, just people with time on their hands and an interest in making the game better.

[Parabola]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

Hey the beta server is open to anyone and so is the closed beta. There isn't any sequestration, just people with time on their hands and an interest in making the game better.

As I said:

7 hours ago, Parabola said:

I take people's word that there are no significant barriers to entry to the closed beta.

I just think it's a shame to have anything that makes a small community feel smaller.

[Ruin Mage]

9 hours ago, Parabola said:

too much of the community activity is sequestered away from public view and the feel of things around here suffers as a result.

Honestly, while I get what you're saying I also don't think we'd have a good Homecoming if there was no Closed Beta where feedback and testing is actually focused.

Every time we go to open beta, non-testers (as in people who do not do a lick of testing at ALL) come out from the corners to rip apart any change they dislike. The Defense Changes is a primary example. People thought it was some game-wide super-change but actual testers pointed out otherwise. Yet they'd not hear the end of it. I'm pretty sure the Fly change was like that, or maybe I'm gaslighting myself into thinking it was. Also yes I know the opposite where staunch defenders ride or die for dev changes, but you can't get reactionaries without wild defenders.

At the very least, those (or they should at least by now) in Closed Beta understand better than the general populace that hard proof (aka testing and numbers) works way better for development than "This change is shit." or "This feels bad." because neither tells the why or the how. If we didn't have that without fail every Page/Issue? I could see validity in bringing the Gold Standard stuff to the forums. But I'm just a guy, maybe the devs/HC admins feel its already a good idea when they read this thread. Maybe its crossed their mind.

[Gulbasaur]

4 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

Or worse yet, you have to suffer through a video of some outrageous personality talking about the game with quick-cuts to memes, dorky sound effects, and repeated thankyous to sponsors and subscribers.

For reference, the episode this originated from came out twenty-nine years ago. 

 

I do think the beta/dev stuff would probably have been better off in the main forums/discord, but hey-diddly-ho. 

[Ruin Mage]

Just now, Gulbasaur said:

I do think the beta/dev stuff would probably have been better off in the main forums/discord,

I'd love if it was in the main Discord but the main HC Discord is blooooooated.

[0th Power]

Can someone help point me in the right direction for the closed beta sign-up.  I can't seem to find it.

[Ruin Mage]

52 minutes ago, 0th Power said:

Can someone help point me in the right direction for the closed beta sign-up.  I can't seem to find it.

https://discord.gg/DptUBzh

[Ironblade]

On 3/2/2023 at 6:37 AM, Luminara said:

No drama today, kids.  Lumi has a headache.

 

On 3/2/2023 at 2:07 PM, Luminara said:

I think someone can dig up some links to remedial reading education websites for you to use, if you ask nicely.

 

Still want to play?  Bring it, pumpkin.

 

Yay!  You got your sass back!   🙂

[Spaghetti Betty]

Oh, darnit. Sorry guys, I forgot I equipped HC with one of these so I could work on Effort Values.

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Spaghetti Betty

[biostem]

"Here's a 'classic' game many people loved and played for nearly a decade... why aren't you drastically changing it?"  🤔

[Paradox Fate]

I'd be for more QoL changes along the way instead of piling them together on big patches, especially on some that people have been waiting for a long time.