Remove agro limits. not totally, but More than they are now at least.

[JackDaniels]

And I know the first thing most are going to say. "YOU JUST WANNA HERD!"

NO! I just want the game to be a challenge again. everyone plays' their character like they are invincible and everyone's a tank. It needs to get back to where every class is needed  to be an efficient group.  It will make it more fun for others to play other roles like Healer or controller or even the heal/trollers.  right now gone are the days of seeing in global or group chats "Looking for tank" "Looking for Healer" etc. make it harder so playing the game takes a bit more thought and not just every person in the team running around the map nuking everything on their own and force everyone to play "as a team should." 

I know this will not be well received but I myself really think this needs to be done to ad more of a challenge back to the game. Just my two cents, if you don't like it then move along

[arcane]

Reducing aggro limitations makes the game easier, not harder, so it’s gotta be a no vote from me.

[Rudra]

9 minutes ago, JackDaniels said:

right now gone are the days of seeing in global or group chats "Looking for tank"

Actually, I see calls for Tankers pretty routinely. And I don't even have LFG channel enabled on my chat tabs.

 

9 minutes ago, JackDaniels said:

And I know the first thing most are going to say. "YOU JUST WANNA HERD!"

And yes, that would be an expected response because right now the meta is to simply explode large numbers of enemies and this would make that even easier.

 

9 minutes ago, JackDaniels said:

NO! I just want the game to be a challenge again. everyone plays' their character like they are invincible and everyone's a tank.

Removing the aggro limits wouldn't do what you want. It would just make it easier for teams to T9 nuke or Judgement spawns away even faster. For the game to be a challenge again given the current meta, the mobs need to be able to stand up to full incarnate teams. Pretty much by themselves. Which would be a death sentence for non-incarnate solo players.

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to remove accidentally added hyphen.

[honoroit]

aggro caps??

 

should be higher, i need prisms!

 

Figs - powercreep adventist / balance expert

[Luminara]

 

[arcane]

5 minutes ago, honoroit said:

aggro caps??

 

should be higher, i need prisms!

 

Figs - powercreep adventist / balance expert

How much money do you require to stop posting pics of this Figs loser

[SwitchFade]

No.

[honoroit]

15 minutes ago, arcane said:

How much money do you require to stop posting pics of this Figs loser

 

about 2.5 billion inf, i need a couple of shadow auras.

 

and zerofuko is awesome, thank you.

[arcane]

1 minute ago, honoroit said:

 

about 2.5 billion inf, i need a couple of shadow auras.

 

and zerofuko is awesome, thank you.

That’s steep for me right now, but I’ll make sure to pass around a donations basket.

[honoroit]

Just now, arcane said:

That’s steep for me right now, but I’ll make sure to pass around a donations basket.

 

always greatful for my fan support!!💓 @finnthehuman is the global to use

[kelika2]

inb4ing your own post just means you noticed a flaw before you finished making the post

you are just going to herd. 

even if you got your agro limits removed player attacks still have aoe limits

and now you are going to ask to remove target limits on aoe and before you know it everyones going to be a fire/ice tank again attackless emps

then we are going to get monkey pawed and we get our agro limits removed but then enemies will hard tether to their spawn spots then speed tfs will take advantage of this and all changes will get reverted

[TheZag]

If the agro limit were relaxed further then enemies over 17 need stacking to-hit and damage.  Biting off more than you can chew should only be survivable after the first few,  more than that should be deadly as enemies from all directions begin to circumvent your defenses.

 

[Psyonico]

Aggro limits are not what make this game easy.

 

Also, at no point in the history of CoH has a balanced team been needed.  I've said it before and I'll say it again; 8 man teams of (de)buffers are better than balanced teams in everything but i-trials and hard mode.  I'm not convinced a team of 7 Corrs and a tank would be worse than a balanced team on hard mode either.

 

At this point, the only way to make the game challenging is to do what the devs are doing with hard mode.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

Haha I remember those days.....

However I am in favor of progress

this would be a step back

There are other ways to reignite the holy trinity of mmos i think.

so far the closest I've found is

 

Teaming at genuine levels 25-35 with other folks has the closest vibe to live.

You get just enough powers to be decent but not enough to be godly.

 

 

[SeraphimKensai]

If the OP wanted the game harder, a request that would accomplish that would be lowering defense/resistance caps across the board.

 

That way instead of letting a toon bottom out a NPCs chance to hit to 5%, the NPC would have say a minimum of 15% chance to hit, and res caps get lowered by 10% across the board.

 

I'm not saying to do that obviously, but that's how you make the game harder without having to scale higher difficulty levels.

 

Removing agro limits would have the opposite effects as that would allow larger herds and simplify who to heal/buff.

 

For that reason I'm not in support of the OP suggestion.

[Etched]

I can see what the OP is sayin. The game is becomin dull when everyone is a tank no matter what the AT is. When blaster and defenders are able to solo 4x8. (and if you believe this doesn't happen you're not playin enough)

 

I'd suggest a Exetreme Settin for normal none tf play, maybe a +5 or +6 (with the same XP as lvl 54s)in mob lvls without debuffin players. 

Also, it would give players more of a option to play at a harder lvl other then runnin Exetreme Aeon or ITF cause some of us can't put that kinda team together when we are not able to play for long periods of time or because we are on a less Pop shard and we can only play when the server is at it's lowest Pop. 

 

I'd agree with most on this though, mob size is not the answer when a solid team can steamroll Malta, KoA, or whatever group at 4x8 w/bosses and AVs. (Havin the settin at 4x10 or 4x15 or 4x20 wont make a difference) Give us a chance to get the shit beat out of us, give us a oppertunity to realize our toons are not gods, if that is what we choose. 

 

I know there will be a ton of backlash sayin I could just make my toons wimpier by not fully kittin out our toons, use SOs or whatever but remember the ODs made the game this way when they put IOs and SETs into the game.

 

I have billions of inf like a lot of others so why shouldn't I or anyone else use it to make the best toon we can and play the hardest mobs possible.

 

@Etched

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Etched
typo

[UltraAlt]

This isn't a PM or some kind of private chat.

 

18 hours ago, JackDaniels said:

Just my two cents, if you don't like it then move along

 

You posted here so you are going to get responses.

You don't want a discussion?

You just want to get feedback about how great your idea is and a bunch of yes-people?

 

I held off posting because you have a low post count and your post is obviously intentionally inflammatory.

It is aimed at getting response against the idea and not the other way around.

 

It's a sore point - but one that must be brought up when we talk about the agro cap - is the impact it will have on Farming.

Farmers would love an agro cap increase.

The DEVS reduce the Agro Cap. It appears obvious they would be against raising it.

I'm against raising it as well.

 

 

18 hours ago, JackDaniels said:

I just want the game to be a challenge again.

 

There are tons of ways to make the game more difficult, but people that complain about the difficulty seem to only be focused on one side of that equation the relies on the DEVs to change things for everyone instead of the side of things that they can control.

 

Anyone can make the game harder themselves but not slotting IO sets and not slotting IOs.

They can also not build the most mini-maxed cookie-cutter build.

They can also not cherry-pick the easiest enemies to fight.

They can even actually play the game with PUGs instead of power-leveling to 50 and only playing the end-game.

heck, they can even turn xp off at level 20 and run level 50 content.

They can even run level 20 content on +4/x8 and solo it.

 

Make a new character and play a set that you think is gimped.

 

18 hours ago, JackDaniels said:

everyone plays' their character like they are invincible and everyone's a tank.

 

I don't know what server you are playing on, but this obviously isn't true.

Out of my 150+ characters only 17 are tanks.

I rarely play tanks these days.

 

Even if the implication is that "every archetype is a tank", I don't believe that to be true even at level 50. Maybe it becomes that way when you unlock all the incarnates and totally mini-max your builds, but, at that point, you are essentially playing on god-mode. Isn't that want an Incarnate is?

 

"Incarnate is a special origin originally not available to players, although heroes and villains who gain the attention of the Well of the Furies may gain Incarnate powers. Incarnates are humans who have been exposed to the Well of the Furies in some way, empowering them with the powers of the gods themselves. As such, they are substantially more powerful than most other superbeings." - https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Incarnate

 

18 hours ago, JackDaniels said:

It will make it more fun for others to play other roles like Healer or controller or even the heal/trollers.

 

I play Controllers, Corruptors, and Defenders most of the time in the sg that I'm in, and I have plenty of fun playing those ATs.

Maybe you should play one instead of thinking that other people should.

Your focus really seems to be on what other players need to do in order to improve your game experience.

 

I'll also add that tanks and brutes aren't needed on teams.

I hate being in a group that has to chase a tank (especially one that doesn't have taunt) that doesn't care about what their teammates are doing.

 

18 hours ago, JackDaniels said:

the game takes a bit more thought and not just every person in the team running around the map nuking everything on their own and force everyone to play "as a team should." 

 

I don't enjoy playing on steam-roller teams. I don't enjoy when one player comes in (usually a level 50) and runs amok (happens far too often in non-end game teams).

I used to call them by their tactic - "Bull in a china shop". They just smash everything and expect everyone else to pick up the pieces behind them.

 

I too find it much more enjoyable when a team works together to let the senergy do the work instead of brute forcing things.

Where can you find this?

You'll find it in the game (vs the end-game) if you play the content without level 50's on the team. Sure, some tanks and brutes are still going to think that they are always the main character on the team, but the team doesn't have to agree to that. The team doesn't even have to have any brute or tanks on it to be successful. 

 

I do think it would be better taste to advertise for a non-level 50, non-tank/brute characters at your level vs kicking them when they join.

 

18 hours ago, JackDaniels said:

I know this will not be well received but I myself really think this needs to be done

 

You should feel free to express your feelings/logic on things, but, when you do, you should expect people to respond.

 

As I indicated earlier, the response seems to be the reason for your post in the first place.

You start with a preconception of how people will respond and close telling people that disagree with you not to respond.

 

 

18 hours ago, JackDaniels said:

And I know the first thing most are going to say. "YOU JUST WANNA HERD!"

 

18 hours ago, JackDaniels said:

if you don't like it then move along

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by UltraAlt

[tidge]

19 hours ago, JackDaniels said:

everyone plays' their character like they are invincible and everyone's a tank.

 

It needs to get back to where every class is needed  to be an efficient group.  

 

 right now gone are the days of seeing in global or group chats "Looking for tank" "Looking for Healer" etc. make it harder so playing the game takes a bit more thought and not just every person in the team running around the map nuking everything on their own and force everyone to play "as a team should."

 

1) I cannot speak for other players: I have several characters that play like they are invincible and they absolutely are not invincible. Setting aside the self-rez insps and temps, I have a couple of rather "soft" characters that have relatively fast-recharging self-rez powers. If those characters never fell, I'd never get a chance to use those powers! The Health bar is a resource to be leveraged, it is not supposed to be "never touched"!

 

2) "That's like, your opinion man"

 

3) I still see requests for Tankers... and often I'm actually confused why there would be such a request for that specific content. I love Tankers, and I want to believe I know what they can do better than other ATs... and I believe just surviving isn't tanking.... but I appreciate that the game is flexible enough that for almost all content: no specific AT (or Team!) is required.

[Greycat]

19 hours ago, JackDaniels said:

 It needs to get back to where every class is needed  to be an efficient group.

 

That's never been needed. Perhaps you're thinking of WoW.

 

19 hours ago, JackDaniels said:

It will make it more fun for others to play other roles like Healer or controller or even the heal/trollers. 

 

No, it won't.

See, I *played* in the days of "Stand here and wait while the tank herds the entire floor into a corner." That wasn't fun. That was boring. Oh, sure, it gave the rest of the team time to stand around and talk while they waited to see if they could *do* something, but it wasn't *fun.*

 

Also, there's no "healer" in this game. There are sets which *have* heals as part of their buffing set, but there's no "healer." Again, perhaps you're thinking of WoW. Frankly, any time I see someone asking for or advertising as a "healer," outside of some *extremely* niche circumstances, I just figure they're new or have no clue what they're doing.

[biostem]

I don't think raising the aggro cap is needed.  Rather, I'd settle for a clearer indication of which enemies are actually aggroed to which team member and which the tank/brute/other person has taunted.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

I don't think raising the aggro cap is needed.  Rather, I'd settle for a clearer indication of which enemies are actually aggroed to which team member and which the tank/brute/other person has taunted.

More indicators other than seeing someone attacking someone is just going to severely clutter the screen, more so than the screen already gets with large teams.

 

And if the author doesn't want everyone running around nuking everything like (s)he/they say in the OP, the only way to make that stop is to restore crashes to nukes or take away the ability to improve their recharge, and to limit Judgements to incarnate content. However, no way in hell is that every going to fly since nukes have gone crashless and have always been able to have their recharge times improved, and incarnate powers could always be used all the way down to level 45. (The incarnate availability all the way down to level 45 while exemplared/malefactored was a HUGE mistake in my book, but I seem to be in a very small minority about changing that aspect.)

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Rudra said:

More indicators other than seeing someone attacking someone is just going to severely clutter the screen, more so than the screen already gets with large teams.

The "let's limit clutter" argument went right out the airlock when power customization allowed you to make your powers as obnoxious and non-uniform as can be.  Some sort of simple indicator around an enemy's feet a la the sentinel AT ability, perhaps with a simple triangle pointing to whom they are aggro'd against, would suffice...

[Rudra]

12 minutes ago, biostem said:

Some sort of simple indicator around an enemy's feet a la the sentinel AT ability, perhaps with a simple triangle pointing to whom they are aggro'd against, would suffice...

Would that even be noticed? (Seriously asking here.) Among the tar patches and the ice slicks and other ground effects? (Edit: Especially in a sea of mobs on TFs/SFs/iTrials?)

 

12 minutes ago, biostem said:

The "let's limit clutter" argument went right out the airlock when power customization allowed you to make your powers as obnoxious and non-uniform as can be.

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this part though. There are powers and a power set I find obnoxious as all Hell (looking at you, Electrical Affinity), but I'm not seeing the power customizations as cluttering the screen any more than the regular power animations did.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Rudra
Edited to correct "Serious;y" to "Seriously".

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Would that even be noticed?

Yes.

 

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this part though.

Get on a team with everyone's powers colored white, (that permit it).

[Rudra]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

8 minutes ago, Rudra said:

I'm not sure where you're coming from with this part though.

Get on a team with everyone's powers colored white, (that permit it).

😶