Trick-or-Treat Leeches

[SquidVicious]

Trick-or-Treat is a fun event. It helps foster some genuine comradery, some fun banter, lots of interesting costumes and of course, XP and loot! For the most part, it brings the community together and is a fun time for all. However, some folks really aren't obeying the spirit of the law, if you'll forgive the pun.

 

So, of course any time one can find a way to get something for nothing someone will try. Case in point: Halloween leeches. These come in a variety of forms - Those that join a team or league and simply sponge while mostly or completely AFK for instance.  There's one guy, who has been reported multiple times, who is on, presumably, 24 hours a day (I play A LOT) and he is always in the corner of the motel in PI. Sometimes he is auto running, always activating powers. He's clearly not playing the game as intended. Then there are the Masterminds that just stand or hover in the middle of the parking lot or toward one of the sides or corners where the biggest spawns occur. Their minions run around grabbing aggro and casting subtraction on everything.

 

Why does this matter? Trick-or-Treat involves one simple mechanic: click a door. Anyone not clicking a door isn't really participating. The 1st type of leech is easiest to cure; you simply kick them from your team or league. The other two types are more difficult to deal with. Someone AFK scripting and hanging on 24 hours a day shouldn't be that hard to notice and ban. Yet in the case I have mentioned, after multiple reports by multiple people, the character is still there.

 

As for the MMs, again, they are not actively participating in the single mechanic of ToT and yet they are reaping the benefits of everyone else's efforts. Not to mention the MM pets can clog doorways making it difficult to move around and can actively prevent you from clicking a door, again the sole mechanic.

 

I have a very simple suggestion to remedy this. As simple as the solution is, it may be difficult to implement. I have no experience coding for CoH so couldn't tell you. My suggestion, however, is this: if you, a teammate or league-mate did not click the door, the spawns don't give you XP or inf. This encourages everyone to actually Trick-or-Treat and prevents mechanics abuse. 

 

I've been doing solo ToT today to see how bad my XP took a hit. The fact is, it didn't. In fact, I have been on some teams where it took over an hour to gain a single level. Today I can easily get 2 in an hour; keeping in mind these are level 50 characters I am referencing. So, clearly, it isn't forcing anyone to team in order to participate. I believe CoH is at its best when it brings the community together. Hopefully the few bad actors I have run into could be encouraged to join in the fun of actively participating in the wonderful event with this change. If you made it this far, thanks for reading.

Edited October 29, 2023 by SquidVicious
Correcting mistakes

[SeraphimKensai]

There's a mechanic for this where the league leader or team leader kicks the leeches. If they don't they are likely complicit in their activities and you can form your own league where you don't allow them.

[SquidVicious]

4 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said:

There's a mechanic for this where the league leader or team leader kicks the leeches. If they don't they are likely complicit in their activities and you can form your own league where you don't allow them.

Yes, I mentioned that as the cure for the first type of leech.

[Dona Eis Requiem]

This may be an unpopular opinion, but it seems like it would be far easier to simply go back to running at-zone-level ToT teams. 

 

I know when the league is a bit leech heavy, going solo ToT is more fruitful, as you observed.

 

It's not so hard to simply move on to the next zone when one is out-leveled. People just got lazy and turned ToT into an out-of-AE farm. 

 

 

[SquidVicious]

4 minutes ago, Dona Eis Requiem said:

It's not so hard to simply move on to the next zone when one is out-leveled. People just got lazy and turned ToT into an out-of-AE farm. 

You're not wrong. I would be okay with that, unpopular though it may be, but the problem would still exist at level 50 zones for the people content to AFK while scripted, auto-powering, or pet hunting who still aren't actively trick-or-treating by clicking doors.

[Dona Eis Requiem]

16 minutes ago, SquidVicious said:

the problem would still exist at level 50 zones

 

True. 

 

I've been grateful for the league leaders who take it to Kallisti Wharf or the RWZ on occasion (and the attentive ones in PI, also).

If there's nobody there in PI to knock on the doors there won't be much to leech.  

[Sovera]

Unpopular opinion: does it really matter? Do you get less loot because they do so? Is your fun less fun because of that dot in your minimap not moving from the wall it is auto running against?

I know it sounds like I endorse this, which I don't. I'm saying rather, does it really matter enough to elevate your blood pressure over?

[WumpusRat]

2 hours ago, SquidVicious said:

I have a very simple suggestion to remedy this. As simple as the solution is, it may be difficult to implement. I have no experience coding for CoH so couldn't tell you. My suggestion, however, is this: if you, a teammate or league-mate did not click the door, the spawns don't give you XP or inf. This encourages everyone to actually Trick-or-Treat and prevents mechanics abuse. 

 

Actually this would create MORE abuse, for one simple reason: A couple people could click on doors while your ToT league is parked in an area and anything that comes out you and your league get no inf/exp/badges for. This would end up with people screaming at one another about "this is our camping spot, go find your own", etc. Just like back in the day when you'd get a group and just camp in front of a spawn of mobs for hours on end grinding exp.

 

Personally, I don't really care if someone "leeches" off stuff I'm already fighting, since I only ToT for the badges, and stuff dying faster = faster badges. Sometimes I just want to do my own thing and not worry about being in a group/league, so I can go afk at a moment's notice, look stuff up on the other monitor, or whatever else and not have people getting irate that I'm "leeching while afk". Which is why I almost exclusively ToT solo in Kallisti. 

[SquidVicious]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

Unpopular opinion: does it really matter? Do you get less loot because they do so? Is your fun less fun because of that dot in your minimap not moving from the wall it is auto running against?

I know it sounds like I endorse this, which I don't. I'm saying rather, does it really matter enough to elevate your blood pressure over?

I don't think it's necessarily an unpopular opinion. I considered it myself for several days before bothering to post about it. It can affect your loot and XP, though, as how much you get depends on damage done by yourself, your team and league. Pets can also redirect aggro away from things like AoE DoTs and interfere with setups for nukes, etc. My blood pressure isn't really elevated by it. I was just wondering if there could be a solution for it.

[Snarky]

Leech is a hurtful word.  We prefer non derogatory terms of empowerment.  For instance, alternate individual life force empowered persons.  Thanks

[lemming]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

Unpopular opinion: does it really matter? Do you get less loot because they do so? Is your fun less fun because of that dot in your minimap not moving from the wall it is auto running against?

I know it sounds like I endorse this, which I don't. I'm saying rather, does it really matter enough to elevate your blood pressure over?

As pointed out, it does take away from the people who are doing the work.    And of course the "your blood pressure" comment is acting like it's having an exaggerated effect.  People can point out problems that are harmful.   Acting like the person writing it is being emotional is reading way too much into a post.

[Clave Dark 5]

If the RNG decided it's time for a drop, say a recipe, it picked who amongst the damage givers gets it (far as I know), so yes this is taking loot from non-leeching players; I'd imagine the XP gets split too???  It's like someone inviting themselves to your farm, and you can't make them leave.

 

I've been reporting LOST of these people, some of them multiple times, and the Devs I've dealt with (whom I'm sure of sick of me by now ha ha) have been decent enough to explain to me that some of them are not AFK, so their form of leeching so that falls into enough of a grey enough area that they slide by. 

 

Still somehow not clear on how the worst examples I've seen of it slide by: I've seen one SG, presumably one person, like quintuple-boxing, pets in the parking lot and multiple MMs up in the AE play floor inside the AE building that's right behind the hotel in PI.

 

Go to the hotel right now, I bet you can find that one SG with MMs standing in the center of the parking lot, and if you're lucky three more (or more! up in the AE building.  Report 'em!  😃

[Digirium]

Yes, I have made the same observations in PI Excelsior motel ToT but I just stick to my plan which is collect badges and move on.

 

For some stuff like the costume badges and whispered rumor tip badges these can be done without being in the league.

 

The presence of the league is handy to clean up the trail of tricks hunting me down and trying to ruin my day! The league deserves all the XP and other rewards from defeating my tricks. Getting the badges for regular, elites and GM defeats happens very fast while in the league and means taking a league place for only a few minutes, it at least feels that way. Some players might want to farm ToT salvage for the other stuff that is available but not me.

 

Badges for Deadly Apocalypse and/or Zombie Apocalypse might come during league time but it is just as easy to run them separately.

[Clave Dark 5]

2 hours ago, Digirium said:

Yes, I have made the same observations in PI Excelsior motel ToT but I just stick to my plan which is collect badges and move on.

 

For some stuff like the costume badges and whispered rumor tip badges these can be done without being in the league.

 

The presence of the league is handy to clean up the trail of tricks hunting me down and trying to ruin my day! The league deserves all the XP and other rewards from defeating my tricks. Getting the badges for regular, elites and GM defeats happens very fast while in the league and means taking a league place for only a few minutes, it at least feels that way. Some players might want to farm ToT salvage for the other stuff that is available but not me.

 

Badges for Deadly Apocalypse and/or Zombie Apocalypse might come during league time but it is just as easy to run them separately.

I think we've identified one our leechers  😄

[Digirium]

10 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I think we've identified one our leechers  😄

 

Hey now! In fact just the opposite! 😇

[GM Crumpet]

We have discussed this issue extensively amongst the GM team. It's a difficult one to adjudicate. If we ban the players from the game until the event is over we get accused of GM overreach. If we kick them they come back. We do release pets on obvious offenders, and apologise if we accidentally do it to the wrong player, but for those who don't want to join a league and aren't AFK  we can't do a lot as they aren't technically breaking the CoC. 

What I do as a league leader is Incan to another location. The motel in PI is a great place, but there are streets with plenty of doors in a line to click. In Kallisti it's less of a problem for some reason. I've run a number of leagues in Kallisti and the differences are remarkable. It's also easier to spot AFK players who aren't contributing. We have this problem every year and I think moving forward league leaders need to rethink the location of ToT activity. It's only a major problem at the motel. Going onto the streets might be a better idea.

[srmalloy]

1 hour ago, GM Crumpet said:

What I do as a league leader is Incan to another location.

In KW you can also use a trick to identify the AFK members — Incan to a spot away from where you'll be ToTing, then run to the building to start; the ones that remain at the Incan point even after the rest of the league resumes ToTing are definitely AFK. The ones who have one of the other league members on follow, though, are less easy to identify.

[Luminara]

Click all of the doors simultaneously and tell the active participants to back away.

[roleki]

2 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

In Kallisti it's less of a problem for some reason.

 

Probably a 60/40 split between A) the players in question don't know how to get to KW, and  B) they DO know how to get to KW from PI but they're too lazy to do so.

[Clave Dark 5]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

Click all of the doors simultaneously and tell the active participants to back away.

I've once or twice seen someone drag a GM back, which is also fun.

[Greycat]

15 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

There's a mechanic for this where the league leader or team leader kicks the leeches.

 

... Assuming they're on your league, not just hanging there with pets attacking everything.

 

We've had GMs come on and say flat out, no, that's not allowed.... funny how fast they get to clicking (for a little while.)

[Clave Dark 5]

5 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

If we ban the players from the game until the event is over we get accused of GM overreach. If we kick them they come back.

Do not cheat or abuse exploits

1. If you find an exploit please report it to a member of staff immediately
2. This includes the use of scripts and programs to automate gameplay
3. This includes trying to deceive or otherwise cheat other players for your own gain

I mean, if people are violating that then... seems like you can kick them, short term ban them, whatever, and let that one or two people go away mad?  And if they keep coming back that's multiple "infractions" against your stated wishes and you can kick them for that (and lord knows I keep seeing the same very few names pop up over and over again).  This is your game not theirs isn't it? 

 

Or just tell us this is exactly how you wish to run the game and are happy to see it played.

 

I know this is going to come across as too negative,but it really does seem like there's n easy fix or two here that for some reason are being avoided or (devs/mods) are too adverse to pulling out for some reason.

[arcane]

A not-so-serious opinion: some days it feels like soliciting petty bans should be banworthy.

[SquidVicious]

29 minutes ago, arcane said:

A not-so-serious opinion: some days it feels like soliciting petty bans should be banworthy.

As a "for the record"; the OP offered a solution that did not require a ban.

[srmalloy]

6 hours ago, GM Crumpet said:

In Kallisti it's less of a problem for some reason.

I haven't seen a tight pocket of doors in KW like the murder motels provide; all the KW ToTing I've seen in KW has the group orbiting one of the larger buildings working their way from door to door, or moving between a cluster of smaller buildings. In either case, AFK leeches who just park their pets on Aggressive will be left behind, and leeches set to Follow will a) be readily identifiable and b) have their pets following behind them where they don't aggro as much, reducing the leeches' XP gains, so they'd go off to a murder motel where it's easier to hide their leeching.