Real Talk: Dear Devs, are you aiming to force Trinity Gaming?

[WhiteNightingale]

Buffing up a faction or two was interesting at first, but now that this difficulty increase is becoming a constant, between the constant buffs to mobs and the non-stop nerfs I'm starting to get vietnam flashbacks of Anarchy Online where the game ended up outright unplayable solo, and playing with a solid, "1337" party was merely the entry ticket to play content of your own level. I just come from an ApeMage where our tank was repeately KB'd.... no scratch that, she was ragdolled by Malta, a TANK. Is mag10 protection now supposed to be "for gimps"? Do tanks now need to be followed by an Empath everywhere to cast Focused Mind or something?

 

Forced Trinity gaming is anathema to both the superhero genre (a superhero is supposed self-sufficient enough, at least) and to CoH's original design objectives.

 

When the direction you insist on taking the game just costed us Everlasting community's main two load-bearing pillars (Veracor and SSR), then maybe it's time to reconsider if that's really the direction you wanna take.

 

I beg you to reconsider.

Edited August 8 by WhiteNightingale

[Uun]

2 hours ago, WhiteNightingale said:

I just come from an ApeMage where our tank was repeately KB'd.... no scratch that, he was ragdolled by Malta, a TANK. Is mag10 protection now supposed to be "for gimps"?

The only changes to Apex and Tin Mage since they were introduced was the removal of the -4 level shift for characters without Alpha unlocked/slotted. There have been no changes to the difficulty of any of the factions fought in either TF. The only attack that Malta has that does more than mag 4 kb is Director 11's Proximity Mine (which is mag 10.386), but I fail to see how anyone could be repeatedly kb'ed by them unless someone was intentionally setting them off. 

 

Most tank armor sets have a combination of mag 10 kb protection and 10000% kb resistance, making mag 10 protection sufficient in most circumstances. Electric has 15 mag kb protection (that only works near the ground) but no kb resistance. Dark and Fire have no kb protection or resistance and must obtain it outside their primary (this has been the case since launch). IMO, a Dark or Fire tank needs at least mag 12 kb protection. The only tank that should be kb'ed at all in Tin Mage would be a Fire or Dark with less than mag 10 kb protection.

[Glacier Peak]

This is not real talk. 

[arcane]

OP unfortunately does not know what they are talking about 

[Triumphant]

I don't think TinMage was ever really meant to be soloed (though people have, of course, always managed to figure out how to solo almost all content in the game).  It's a50+ lvl taskforce.  I can't solo it with any of my incarnate builds and never have been able to accomplish this (even before the recent changes).  I think that's okay.  There is still plenty of other content that players (including mediocre ones, like myself) can solo.  Why should all of it be soloable?

 

Since the changes, some of the content I used to run at +4/8, I now can only run at +4/4 (or even +3/6, in some cases).  Other content I can still manage at +4/8 most of the time, but I occasionally get wiped or I may feel some momentary frustration with certain upgraded foes.  This is also okay, in my opinion- even desirable, as I could get quite bored fighting the usual same old- and now I find it more challenging.  I'm forced to engage more carefully and be on my toes.  This makes play more interesting to me.

 

Now, there may be a day when I just want to relax and vegg-out and mow through mobs for fun and profit.  When I want to do that, I just turn the difficulty down or tackle easier content.  Problem solved

 

P.S.  Also sorry that we lost notable players, like Veracor.  Still, have you considered the possibility that after achieving veteran level 7,597,257,344, that maybe he just got bored and moved onto something new?  Just spitballing, here. 🤷‍♂️

[TygerDarkstorm]

Veracor is still around to some extent; he was just on an MSR the other day. There's been lots of folks who were staples on the shards leaving the game for various reasons. Sometimes burn out hits; do we have proof that Veracor, et al left due to the direction Homecoming has taken the game?

 

And as far as I'm aware, TinPex weren't really changed/affected by the enemy faction buffs HC has made. But Council and CoT getting buffed was kind of necessary.

[mistagoat]

I've experienced the tank knockback issue. It's not exclusive to any mission or trial. I think it changed sometime over the last year, I don't know what the change was but I do indeed hate it. My set out lvl50+ tanks are no longer the picture of upright stature that they once were.

 

Typically it is not a constant thing but I'm occasionally tossed to the ground and feels super wrong when I'm on a tank. 

[Seed22]

3 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

This is not real talk. 

To them it is, now you may disagree and thats fine and dandy, I personally don’t agree with how they presented their argument but I’d be remiss if I didn’t say I was concerned about not necessarily holy trinity play but teaming being a bit too heavily pushed with new additions recently.

 

But that’s just my sentiments.

[Seed22]

On 8/8/2024 at 9:15 AM, Triumphant said:

P.S.  Also sorry that we lost notable players, like Veracor.  Still, have you considered the possibility that after achieving veteran level 7,597,257,344, that maybe he just got bored and moved onto something new?  Just spitballing, here. 🤷‍♂️

Nope thats not it at all. In the ELTF discord he explicitly says it’s because of HC development.

 

I don’t disagree either. Hell I “finished” the labyrinth on a toon, which is good enough for me. Soon as some RL things come about in a few weeks, and things pick back up, I’ll be following suite but ofc I’m not some notable name in the community so I won’t be making a big post*
 

*Besides the one in AE and thats just for the few who were possibly interested in a followup arc I have in the works but is now on (probably) almost indefinite hiatus.

Edited August 9 by Seed22

[Uun]

43 minutes ago, mistagoat said:

I've experienced the tank knockback issue. It's not exclusive to any mission or trial. I think it changed sometime over the last year, I don't know what the change was but I do indeed hate it. My set out lvl50+ tanks are no longer the picture of upright stature that they once were.

 

Typically it is not a constant thing but I'm occasionally tossed to the ground and feels super wrong when I'm on a tank. 

It is specific to powers that have unresistable knockback, i.e., Crimson Prototype/Nova Stomp, Crystal Titan/Foot Stomp, etc.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

Veracor is still around to some extent; he was just on an MSR the other day. There's been lots of folks who were staples on the shards leaving the game for various reasons. Sometimes burn out hits; do we have proof that Veracor, et al left due to the direction Homecoming has taken the game?

 

 

While secondhand info (IE, in game, was told Veracor and SSR were leaving...) it was explained exactly as "the direction the game is going."

[Excraft]

I don't disagree with the spirit of what the OP was saying here as it does seem clear that the direction is moving toward more "team oriented/required" content.  I personally don't think that should be the sole focus, but that's me and HC can do whatever they like.

 

Folks should also keep in mind there are other servers out there to try.  There's not much any of us can do to affect change here.  This server belongs to the HC people and they'll work on what they want, and there's nothing wrong with that.  If everyone else leaves, they'll just go back to running a small server for family and friends.  Remember, this isn't a commercial enterprise so there's no incentive for HC to cave to the whims and wishes of us regular folk.

 

I'm not at all disparaging the HC team.  I may not always agree with what they do, but I do respect and appreciate their dedication and work.  I both like and dislike the changes that have been made, and for now there's enough to keep me interested in playing here. 

[mistagoat]

32 minutes ago, Uun said:

It is specific to powers that have unresistable knockback, i.e., Crimson Prototype/Nova Stomp, Crystal Titan/Foot Stomp, etc.

The most repeatable instance (but not the only instance) where I've experienced this is when doing high level council/5th column. As a tank you run in first, get everyone's attention and they all fire off something at you at the same time. My best guess is that all the rocket guys firing off their rockets at the same time is stacking KB mag. Even had it happen on a Rad tank that had the 3pc PVP IO that adds another 3 mag to KB protection.

 

Like I said, thats just a guess because my buddy and I haven't been able to come up with a better explanation. We do tend to avoid Council these days because of how tedious they are to fight now.

 

I'll try to pay closer attention to when and where I see it happen and report back.

[TygerDarkstorm]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

 

While secondhand info (IE, in game, was told Veracor and SSR were leaving...) it was explained exactly as "the direction the game is going."

Thank you for correcting me; my apologies.

[arcane]

I don’t think anyone can reasonably argue that Veracor doesn’t need a little grass touching time anyway.

[Psyonico]

I don't think you know what Trinity gaming is...

 

It's not just about teaming, Trinity gaming is specifically linking for 3 things at the expense of everything else.  Those three things being tank-dps-heals.

 

Marine Affinity disproves your argument as it is one of the strongest sets I've seen in a while all while being light on heals.

[DrRocket]

I do have a fear with the direction development is going, which was an issue during early and mid live days...

 

In the old days, the game was truly focused on teaming, which was not a bad thing, but it was not encompassing of the many personalities in the game. And thus the level modifiers for TFs and missions was introduced, yet before this, the real issue was that a Pick Up Group (PUG) in those conditions did not have a chance, so the within those conditions class types became mandatory such as emp or kin while the rest were essentially despised, remember playing a storm defender during live, they were quite hated.

 

So my fear is our returning to the specialty class mix groups, that would totally ruin the casual enjoyment of the game, which is what attracts the game to me and gives me such awesome degree of fun and the ability to play with anybody without prejudice.

 

Regards

[Greycat]

3 hours ago, Excraft said:

I don't disagree with the spirit of what the OP was saying here as it does seem clear that the direction is moving toward more "team oriented/required" content.  I personally don't think that should be the sole focus, but that's me and HC can do whatever they like.

 

 

Is it? I mean, we've had plenty of complaints about things being non challenging  - so they set up plus-star levels and such, and there have been requests for team content... so, labrynth. But we've also gotten power sets and perfectly soloable story arcs. Yeah, they may work more on one thing than another at one time or another, but... I've more a sense of it being balanced out as far as team/solo/small team long term. (And just like when Incarnates came out and the answer we got to "what about solo/small team" stuff was "Grind the itrials!" ... I'm not shy about speaking out about either side being ignored 😄 )

[Triumphant]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

 

Is it? I mean, we've had plenty of complaints about things being non challenging  - so they set up plus-star levels and such, and there have been requests for team content... so, labrynth. But we've also gotten power sets and perfectly soloable story arcs. Yeah, they may work more on one thing than another at one time or another, but... I've more a sense of it being balanced out as far as team/solo/small team long term. (And just like when Incarnates came out and the answer we got to "what about solo/small team" stuff was "Grind the itrials!" ... I'm not shy about speaking out about either side being ignored 😄 )

 

Indeed.  Almost all of the game has been (and continues to be) soloable.  There is far more soloable content than content which cannot be completed without a team.  As far as I know, this has always been true since Homecoming has existed (I don't know about live play.  I wasn't there for that, sadly).

[Indystruck]

Did your Tank get end drained by Malta and thus detoggle? Because that seems like it'd answer that.

[ScarySai]

Veracor's reasoning for quitting is pretty valid, though the reason he's quitting isn't here yet, and pretty unrelated to OP.

[Psyonico]

55 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

Did your Tank get end drained by Malta and thus detoggle? Because that seems like it'd answer that.

My thought was it was dark or fire armor without enough -KB slotted

[golstat2003]

Nothing of the new content released I've seen forces trinity gaming. Any group of players can jump into an LOF league and kick Mino's ass. Marine is probably the mostly solo friendly set released. And the new story arcs are easily soloable.

[macskull]

I also don’t like the enemy group buffs (they’re either inconsequential or annoying, neither of which actually makes them harder) or player nerfs, but I have no idea why OP decided to focus on a specific scenario in a specific piece of content when neither that scenario nor that content has been affected by those changes. There are plenty of legitimate gripes about how poorly the Homecoming team handles power balance but this one misses the mark big time.

[WhiteNightingale]

9 hours ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

do we have proof that Veracor, et al left due to the direction Homecoming has taken the game?

 

Yes, in the Everlasting Taskforces Discord, in the announcements section. And they explicitly say they leave because they no longer agree with the direction the devs are taking the game.

 

And I can't say I blame them.

 

When they buffed Crey.... ok, they're supposed to have a private army with experience in metahumans, but when EVERY SINGLE FACTION above level 30 has the damn Triple Threat (holds, KB, blinds and/or some equally crippling debuff), the message is clear: Trinity or GTFO.

 

What's even the point of the Concealment pool existing if the devs buffed all factions' perception to the point rikti drones are redundant now? No, now you want real stealth? Stalker/Illus or GTFO (and even proc slotted, don't even think about sneaking past any faction with drones). Why not just REVERT that messup of being able to toggle several travel powers at a time? THE DEVS themselves created the "over concealment" problem, and then "patched it up" by nerfing stealth into near oblivion.

 

What made WoW (and then CoX) great back in the day was the promise of "you can solo your way to lvl 50 and you don't need to grind all day every day" because only home-officed imsomniacs had time for otherwise, the "haaaardcoooore" model thing was long abandoned in MMOs (and good riddance for that). MMO's target demo in general (and CoX' in particular) is adults, BUSY adults with disposable income. We don't have time to grind all day every day, and this is not even an ARPG, so don't even start with "durr hurr git gud."

 

TL;DR: Creating exclusive hardcore content is ok, creating new difficulty modes is ok (since those are optional), raising the bar of the whole game experience is NOT ok.

Edited August 9 by WhiteNightingale