New-ish Player / Conventional Wisdom question

[JMacClear]

Managing Stamina is clearly a 'thing" in the game.  A lesson learned. 🙂 I set my difficulty as +1 level and Bosses when solo. Nevertheless my Brute / Scrapper need to carefully prepare/manage for the boss in any mission - that is ensure they are rested / inspirations etc.  Its all good - just a learning curve.

 

However I wonder : Perhaps I have not devoted enough enhancement slots in Stamina for these characters ?

 

- Is there a 'rule of thumb'  i.e. 1 Stamina Enhancement slot every 10 levels ? 1 @ 10 - 2 @ 20 etc ?

- I specify my Brute / Scrapper as opposed to Blaster(s) I play as the Blaster 'use range - hit and run" techniques seem to mitigate the issue more so.

- My Sentinel is somewhere in between. 

 

Follow up: The enhancements I used were "Enhance stamina" as opposed to "Recharge". Should I be using both or do most people ignore 1 for the other ?

[MoonSheep]

put an endurance reduction SO in each of your attacks, it’ll make a big difference

 

people generally 2 slot stamina with end mod

[Uun]

13 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

put an endurance reduction SO in each of your attacks, it’ll make a big difference

THIS

 

21 minutes ago, JMacClear said:

I specify my Brute / Scrapper as opposed to Blaster(s)

Blasters get "sustain" powers at lvl 20 that boost their endurance and health recovery.

[The Trouble]

29 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:

put an endurance reduction SO in each of your attacks, it’ll make a big difference

 

people generally 2 slot stamina with end mod

I prioritize Accuracy and Endurance Reduction first.  If you miss, you need to try and hit again... thus wasting End.  It's tempting to go for Damage first because the monkey brain says, "Hurt more=defeat more!".  The truth is your strikes need to connect, and they need to cost less stamina for you to be able to continue attacking.

 

And yes two slot Stamina.  Earth sheep are silly, but apparently @MoonSheep are wise.

[MoonSheep]

Just now, The Trouble said:

I prioritize Accuracy and Endurance Reduction first.  If you miss, you need to try and hit again... thus wasting End.  It's tempting to go for Damage first because the monkey brain says, "Hurt more=defeat more!".  The truth is your strikes need to connect, and they need to cost less stamina for you to be able to continue attacking.

 

And yes two slot Stamina.  Earth sheep are silly, but apparently @MoonSheep are wise.

 

living that lunar life

 

if you’re having endurance problems you could also buy the combat amplifier from the P2W vendor in atlas park which gives you an hour of extra regen, recovery etc each time you buy it up to a maximum of 8 hours at a time - let me know if you’d benefit from some influence to buy it

 

you could also slot the miracle +recovery IO and numinas +recovery and regen IO in health. along with having the performance shifter chance for +endurance in stamina. i’m happy to send you these, just DM me your in game global name

[DoctorDitko]

I usually slot Stamina (in order of utility):

(Corrected thanks to Maelwys!)

 

Performance Shifter proc (gives END)

Performance Shifter END Mod (increases Stamina)

(Also, having both increases Movement speed by 7.5%, but that's irrelevant)

 

And in Health (again, in order of utility):

Panacea proc (gives END and HP)

Numina's Convalescence +END +HP

Miracle +Recovery

 

(Is it weird that the best END mods come from HP enhancements? Yes, yes it is. This is CoH, where the temp power Tough Hide gives you +Defense, and there are bus stops but no buses.)

 

Panacea can be pricey, but the two Perf Shifts aren't too bad. Run missions, explore zones, get Merits. At an ATM, trade Merits for Enhancement Converters, sell Converters on the Auction House, you'll afford the PS ones in no time.

 

Once I have it slotted that way, along with the Health ones Moon recommends, I don't worry about Stamina unless I'm fighting Malta or Carnies. (Which I love to do; many players are scared of them; I find them a welcome challenge!)

 

 

Edited Friday at 06:05 AM by DoctorDitko
I'm getting old, but Maelwys is a keen mind!

[arcane]

All of my characters have Stamina slotted with either:

 

Performance Shifter: EndMod

Performance Shifter: Proc

Generic EndMod IO

 

or:

 

Performance Shifter: EndMod

Performance Shifter: Proc

Power Transfer: EndMod

Power Transfer: Proc

 

Depending on how stressed I am for slots, etc.

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

put an endurance reduction SO in each of your attacks, it’ll make a big difference

*Almost* this.  Put an accuracy SO first (higher chance of hitting means less chance of wasting end), then a endurance reduction SO.  And slot Stamina as soon as reasonably possible.
 

 

1 hour ago, JMacClear said:

I set my difficulty as +1 level and Bosses when solo.

A less obvious way to reduce endurance problems is to reduce the amount of work you have to do - if you can two-shot a mob, you've saved end over requiring three shots.  Some people complain that you get less XP per mob that way, but you also spend less end and less time resting to restore your end.  This is particularly important for Brutes because the more combat you can fit within your end and HP limits, the more you'll get out of your Fury bonus.

[SmokinIndo]

Turn off sprint and any other travel powers. These toggles bleed endurance. If you're playing a defensive archetype, consider shutting off toggles against certain enemies. If you're fighting trolls, you only need a smashing/lethal toggle on. You don't energy or fire/cold, because trolls don't deal that damage type.

 

The big IOs that help with recovery are Numina's Convalescence +Recovery/+Regen, Panacea: +HP/+End, Performance Shifter: +End, and Miracle: +Recovery. All of these can be slotted at level 27. There are also tons of set bonuses that improve your recovery. Some accolade powers boost your recovery as well.

 

Even with IOs, some builds really struggle with end. When you become an incarnate, there are Alpha abilities that improve recovery.

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, JMacClear said:

Is there a 'rule of thumb'  i.e. 1 Stamina Enhancement slot every 10 levels ? 1 @ 10 - 2 @ 20 etc ?

 

By level 20 , my characters tend to have 3-4 slots of stamina and 2 slots in health (with one proc to help with endurance) .

 

In stamina, 1-2 SO End mods, 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Performance_Shifter:_Chance_for_%2BEndurance, https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Power_Transfer:_Chance_to_Heal_Self

 

In health, 1 SO Health, https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Panacea:_Chance_for_%2BHit_Points/Endurance

 

At level ~30, I'll slot a https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Numina's_Convalescence:_Regeneration/Recovery into health.

 

I have some other general rules of thumb to help with powers.

If the power is a toggle, I'm generally going to slot a end reduction in the first slot.

If an attack power (I'm always going to put 2 accs in the first two slots unless that puts the acc of the power above 2.0) is cost more than 10 end, then I'm going to put an end reduction in it before anything else (and, if above 15 end, and not a long recharge power, I might put another end reduction in it at some point if I'm going to 6 slot it).

 

If you have electrical powers, then I would think about putting an 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Performance_Shifter:_Chance_for_%2BEndurance into one of them, and (putting an 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Power_Transfer:_Chance_to_Heal_Self does seem to hurt either)

[that being said, trying to run multiple versions of a proc can cause issues with the proc-ing, but I'm no expert in all of that. It just seems to benefit my electrical characters if they are slotted across at least one attack power as well as in Stamina]

 

2 hours ago, JMacClear said:

Follow up: The enhancements I used were "Enhance stamina" as opposed to "Recharge". Should I be using both or do most people ignore 1 for the other ?

 

SO's are going to tend to be better for sets than IOs or IO sets pre- like 35 or so.

I don't think you can speed up (reduce recharge) Stamina or Health by slotting set IOs that have /recharge as part of their abilities. Recharge and activation times are listed for either of these Fitness powers. However, hasten might, but I'm not sure.

 

To me, it comes down to pacing.

At some points when a character is low on end, I'm just going to use 1 or two powers for mitigation until I can get enough end back to lean into it. Say a hold, disorient, knockback/knockdown power, or sleep power.

If I'm on a team, and it looks like they are handling it, I'll even drop back and take a knee if my character can disengage from combat long enough to do so.

 

Also, I have no issue with falling back in combat, to give my character a chance to gain some end and even maybe to get some health back. Walls give you 100% resistance, so if you can hold, immobilize, sleep, slow down, etc. some of a mob and run around a corner then you can end up only having to fight 1 or a couple at a time instead of a whole mob.

Use range attacks to pull for the same effect.

Use teleport target to whittle down groups to a more manageable size, but target minions first as teleporting LTs or bosses will tend to agro the whole group even if you are out of line-of-sight (honestly, if you miss the roll trying teleport a minion, sometimes that will agro the whole group as well)

Reducing the number of opponents will obviously reduce the time it takes to defeat them, less time in battle = less end use during that battle.  

[Ironblade]

I'll typically have 3 slots in Stamina by level 15 or so, with three endmod enhancements.  Eventually, the slots will contain two endmod and one Performance Shifter +END.  At level 50, three endmod would be partly wasted due to diminishing returns.  The +END proc works differently and is relatively cheap.

 

Most of my characters have one or more +recovery enhancements (not cheap) and additional recovery from set bonuses.  Pausing to recover END is unacceptable to me (unless I get drained by a Sapper, or something like that).

[RikOz]

9 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Some people complain that you get less XP per mob that way

Wat? No.

[Gobbledygook]

 

[Apogee]

Survival Amplifier (x8) at level 1 (8000 inf) gives you 8 hours of +HP, +Regen and +Stam.

Add in the Offense and Defense Amps for more low level goodness.

 

[Maelwys]

14 hours ago, JMacClear said:

However I wonder : Perhaps I have not devoted enough enhancement slots in Stamina for these characters ?

 

- Is there a 'rule of thumb'

 

Generally whenever a character is in their "finished" state, I'll always aim for them to have a recovery surplus of at least 2 Endurance/Second (not including Panacea). That tends to give enough leeway on most characters. 

The exceptions are characters that have zero endurance reduction slotted into their main attacks (e.g. 2x Acc/Dam + 4x Damage Procs) or specific powersets like Battleaxe and claw-focused Arachnos Widows that just plain guzzle endurance.

[Maelwys]

14 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

I usually 3-slot Stamina (in order of utility):

 

Panacea proc (gives END and HP)

Performance Shifter proc (gives END)

Performance Shifter END Mod (increases Stamina)

 

Panacea is a Healing Set, so can't fit in Stamina.

It is however the best bang-for-your-buck in Health.

[aethereal]

Slotting sets early really helps with endurance, both because minor endurance bonuses are pretty common filler set bonuses, and because the increased slotting efficiency of sets vs SOs means you get more acc/dam/end redx into your powers earlier.

[Sovera]

Hellos. I already had the guide in my signature linked to but to add Recovery Serums from the START vendor cost 10k per charge which is a pittance. You can buy a max stack of that and use when ever it is off cooldown while the build has not fixed it's endurance problems.

[srmalloy]

23 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

put an endurance reduction SO in each of your attacks, it’ll make a big difference

Endurance Reduction in your attacks will benefit you more than Endurance Reduction in your armor powers.

[Techwright]

22 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

living that lunar life

 

if you’re having endurance problems you could also buy the combat amplifier from the P2W vendor in atlas park which gives you an hour of extra regen, recovery etc each time you buy it up to a maximum of 8 hours at a time - let me know if you’d benefit from some influence to buy it

 

 

It's a minor detail, perhaps, but if one is going to utilize temporary items, then find an allied super group base or a server's public base with a Tier II or Tier III Empowerment station. If you don't have access to these, there's also a Tier III Empowerment Station in Fort Trident (enter the Freedom Corp building just east of Atlas Park City Hall).  Find it in the back, top level, small side room.

 

With an Empowerment Station, in exchange for some common salvage (white), you could gain 90 minutes of Increase Recovery at 17%.   While at the same stations, you can also acquire Endurance Drain Resistance at a 20% resistance, which will really help retain endurance when going up against endurance leeches like the Clockwork or the Freaks.    I often use these two to smooth out the end drain when going through the teen security level ranks.

 

Note that with Empowerment stations there are 3 options for each benefit, each option using a different set of salvage, but only one set can be activated during the 90 minutes.  Also the arcane-based Empowerment Stations use different salvage from the tech-based ones. 

[Ukase]

On 2/12/2025 at 11:20 AM, DoctorDitko said:

And in Health (again, in order of utility):

Panacea proc (gives END and HP)

Numina's Convalescence +END +HP

Miracle +Recovery

So, I read this in context, and in context, I'm not sure I agree. Depends on "utility" I suppose. For both end/hp, sure, use the Numina before the Miracle. But if it's specifically stamina a player is concerned about, I would use the Miracle before the Numina. Maybe something has changed? I remember reading about 18 months ago, maybe, a player mentioned they had forgotten to reslot their numina after a respec. And then noticed that if they played for several hours and never realized it, maybe it wasn't doing as much as they'd thought. (paraphrasing) I wish I could cite the post, as I read it in the HC forums. And another player did some testing and verified as far as Stamina goes, the numina comes last in order of benefit. 

But, I've not been paying full attention as of late, and things may have changed. 

[catsi563]

Stamina wise you can generally get away with 3 slots total in stamina with only end mod  enhancements 

 

if you have the performance shifter set then the end proc and two pieces of the set extra is more than enough to carry you through most content

 

adding end reduction in every attack and toggle works really well barring different set pieceses and their bonuses

 

so yeah thats really all you need

[srmalloy]

39 minutes ago, catsi563 said:

if you have the performance shifter set then the end proc and two pieces of the set extra is more than enough to carry you through most content

Generally I'll slot the Perf Shifter proc, the Perf Shifter End Mod (to get the 7.5% run speed bonus) and a generic End Mod IO, which I can boost to +5 sometime after hitting 50 when I have the spare merits for the boosters. That gets me a bigger payoff for End recovery than using a third Performance Shifter IO, which will give me a maximum 26.5% End Mod increase.

[gameboy1234]

On 2/12/2025 at 10:54 AM, SmokinIndo said:

Turn off sprint and any other travel powers.

 

This too.  Sprint and especially the secondary powers like Athletic Run (and Beast Run, and Ninja Run) are huge Endurance hogs.  Try to shut those off when you are doing lots of fighting.  You can put one EndRedux in Sprint (do not add slots to Sprint, it's not worth it) to help a bit, but the other P2W powers can't be slotted at all.  Just shut them off.

 

[catsi563]

On 2/16/2025 at 1:39 PM, srmalloy said:

Generally I'll slot the Perf Shifter proc, the Perf Shifter End Mod (to get the 7.5% run speed bonus) and a generic End Mod IO, which I can boost to +5 sometime after hitting 50 when I have the spare merits for the boosters. That gets me a bigger payoff for End recovery than using a third Performance Shifter IO, which will give me a maximum 26.5% End Mod increase.

I hear you but I also like the max health bonus that comes with the third piece of the set cant go wrong with more Hit points