[OPEN BETA] Patch Notes for May 31st, 2025 - Issue 28, Page 2 - Build 3

[gameboy1234]

23 hours ago, Vinceq98 said:

The following controller pets now have a 33.33% chance to proc containment damage:

•  Arsenal Control > Tri-Cannon

 

It used to do 100 percent containment dmg and was the perk for that power set. You released a strong damaging and control set and are now nerfing it because the other controller pets got buffed???

 

That's how I read the patch notes too.  I wonder if this is a mistake or if the TCannon was doing more damage than desired.  I haven't tested this yet tho.

 

[Vinceq98]

2 hours ago, lemming said:

I just looked at the stats for a level 37 Arsenal controller on live & open beta.

 

Live, Tri-Gatling shows Average Damage at 73.92

Beta, it shows Average damage of 145.01

 

Where are you showing the nerf bit?

Admittedly I have been on the test server testing the new things so I haven't copied over my arsenal controller over beczuae these open betas are very short and I was not expecting this set at all to hit a stray bullet. Hoping this is all a typo because it isn't justified at all. 

[lemming]

I'll ask a dev, but with the change in damage for the tri-cannon, I'm getting the idea that on average, you'll do 33% more damage.

[Dragotect]

On 5/30/2025 at 9:07 AM, The Curator said:

Critters Only:

All -regen debufs (not flagged to be irresistible) should now be resisted by magnitude, not duration
Reduced the magnitude of many (not all) low recharge -regen debuffs with magnitudes greater than -100%

All critters now regenerate health 5% of their health every 12 seconds (does not include GMs or AVs)

Why?

Seriously, why? Why are you turning everything into more of a damage sponge? At end game that's boring, probably one of the worst offenses an MMO can make as it is a blatant slap in the face of "we want to waste your time" for no reason. I mean the damage sponge bosses (albeit through high/multiple HP pools instead of regen) you made for Council made them SOOOO boring to fight.

Leveling up, especially solo and on low damage output ATs, this is a disaster. This doesn't address teams going through stuff too quickly as a team that floors a group with their alpha strike at end game will still be flooring the entire group with the alpha strike as regen requires time to be damage sponge. The new design is specifically going to be felt the most by low level, solo, and/or low damage ATs.

For an indication of what 5% every twelve seconds does: If it takes 15 seconds to take down a lieutenant on a level 11 controller right now, it'll take about 17 seconds after this change. Doesn't sound like a whole lot... but there's 30 lieutenants between me and the goal of this map. So that's an increase of 1 minute for this one mission of this ten mission contact arc... and we aren't including the increased time it takes to bring down the minion that's with each lieutenant. AND if the boss at the end takes me down... heaven forbid I have to hospital and spend 2 minutes running back... I'll be stuck in a death loop without popping half an insp. tray of red and purple skittles.

This change is just a slog.

I mean, if the goal is to get people to "slow down and smell the roses" so to speak... you might as well get rid of the double XP boost from the S.T.A.R.T. vendor.

(and I posted this here because there isn't a focused feedback page for this specific change)

Edited June 2 by Dragotect

[Wavicle]

59 minutes ago, Dragotect said:

Why?

Seriously, why? Why are you turning everything into more of a damage sponge? At end game that's boring, probably one of the worst offenses an MMO can make as it is a blatant slap in the face of "we want to waste your time" for no reason. I mean the damage sponge bosses (albeit through high/multiple HP pools instead of regen) you made for Council made them SOOOO boring to fight.

Leveling up, especially solo and on low damage output ATs, this is a disaster. This doesn't address teams going through stuff too quickly as a team that floors a group with their alpha strike at end game will still be flooring the entire group with the alpha strike as regen requires time to be damage sponge. The new design is specifically going to be felt the most by low level, solo, and/or low damage ATs.

For an indication of what 5% every twelve seconds does: If it takes 15 seconds to take down a lieutenant on a level 11 controller right now, it'll take about 17 seconds after this change. Doesn't sound like a whole lot... but there's 30 lieutenants between me and the goal of this map. So that's an increase of 1 minute for this one mission of this ten mission contact arc... and we aren't including the increased time it takes to bring down the minion that's with each lieutenant. AND if the boss at the end takes me down... heaven forbid I have to hospital and spend 2 minutes running back... I'll be stuck in a death loop without popping half an insp. tray of red and purple skittles.

This change is just a slog.

I mean, if the goal is to get people to "slow down and smell the roses" so to speak... you might as well get rid of the double XP boost from the S.T.A.R.T. vendor.

(and I posted this here because there isn't a focused feedback page for this specific change)

Is this feedback based solely on the notes, or actual playtesting?

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Dragotect said:

Why?

Seriously, why? Why are you turning everything into more of a damage sponge? At end game that's boring, probably one of the worst offenses an MMO can make as it is a blatant slap in the face of "we want to waste your time" for no reason. I mean the damage sponge bosses (albeit through high/multiple HP pools instead of regen) you made for Council made them SOOOO boring to fight.

Leveling up, especially solo and on low damage output ATs, this is a disaster. This doesn't address teams going through stuff too quickly as a team that floors a group with their alpha strike at end game will still be flooring the entire group with the alpha strike as regen requires time to be damage sponge. The new design is specifically going to be felt the most by low level, solo, and/or low damage ATs.

For an indication of what 5% every twelve seconds does: If it takes 15 seconds to take down a lieutenant on a level 11 controller right now, it'll take about 17 seconds after this change. Doesn't sound like a whole lot... but there's 30 lieutenants between me and the goal of this map. So that's an increase of 1 minute for this one mission of this ten mission contact arc... and we aren't including the increased time it takes to bring down the minion that's with each lieutenant. AND if the boss at the end takes me down... heaven forbid I have to hospital and spend 2 minutes running back... I'll be stuck in a death loop without popping half an insp. tray of red and purple skittles.

This change is just a slog.

I mean, if the goal is to get people to "slow down and smell the roses" so to speak... you might as well get rid of the double XP boost from the S.T.A.R.T. vendor.

(and I posted this here because there isn't a focused feedback page for this specific change)

 

Haven't felt a mission really taking longer.  Though, was playing a scrapper.

[TygerDarkstorm]

5 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Haven't felt a mission really taking longer.  Though, was playing a scrapper.

That's because high damage AT's and folks geared to the nines won't really feel this change. But for AT's like controllers and tankers (from what I'm seeing in the tanker feedback thread), there is a noticeable difference. Mobs take longer to defeat, especially if you're on a nerfed set. It's not impossible, but it's annoying and punishing casual players and players who run on SOs and common IOs. It's also kind of a weird change because this game is no longer for profit and doesn't need arbitrary means of getting people to sink their time into it to play. I also think it's weird to add this on at the same time as they're making sweeping AT/powerset changes, which makes it harder to test and give feedback when it's difficult to know if something you're having an issue with could be do to the powerset/AT change or due to the critter change.

[lemming]

23 minutes ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

But for AT's like controllers and tankers (from what I'm seeing in the tanker feedback thread), there is a noticeable difference.

I will note that I took my Elec/Time Controller thru a mission just to check out the new control bits and the noticeable difference was I blew thru it.   I wasn't doing anything very difficult, but this is something that should be tested, not just read.

[TygerDarkstorm]

3 hours ago, lemming said:

I will note that I took my Elec/Time Controller thru a mission just to check out the new control bits and the noticeable difference was I blew thru it.   I wasn't doing anything very difficult, but this is something that should be tested, not just read.

To which I have and have posted feedback as such. Elec Control got a huge buff this page, but Plant plays noticeably slower. And as I said, tankers are reporting their comparisons in their feedback thread and generally showing slower clear times compared to live. I based what I said off of testing.

[Wavicle]

37 minutes ago, TygerDarkstorm said:

To which I have and have posted feedback as such. Elec Control got a huge buff this page, but Plant plays noticeably slower. And as I said, tankers are reporting their comparisons in their feedback thread and generally showing slower clear times compared to live. I based what I said off of testing.

Of course they are, Tanker damage got nerfed. I would be concerned if they WEREN’T slowing slower clear times.

[DarknessEternal]

On 5/30/2025 at 10:07 AM, The Curator said:

Critters Only:

All critters now regenerate health 5% of their health every 12 seconds (does not include GMs or AVs)

 

Not noticeable at higher levels with high damage ATs, even against Bosses.

Outrageously soulcrushing on low damage and/or low level (below 40).  Seeing them heal while all my powers are on CD just makes me not want to play these things.

[KaizenSoze]

58 minutes ago, DarknessEternal said:

Not noticeable at higher levels with high damage ATs, even against Bosses.

Outrageously soulcrushing on low damage and/or low level (below 40).  Seeing them heal while all my powers are on CD just makes me not want to play these things.

Can you provide some details. What mobs were you fighting at what level.

[Dragotect]

So... after doing actual testing. Yeah, this pretty much does what I expected it would.

 

On level 10-35 you really notice it against pretty much any mob. You can literally watch them heal significantly while your attacks are on cooldown or if you're out of energy- which you're going to be more frequently be as you MUST use EVERY attack you can to try to bring them down quickly. Every miss you make is that much more annoying because it is more time they get to significantly regenerate what little damage you managed to do. It isn't fun. It is painful.

This all gets fixed by teaming, sure, but when was the last time you could reliably get a team together in a timely manner for anything other than TFs? Who is going to join a contact arc? Especially if they don't have or have already done that contact- or heaven forbid if you want to read it, they can't and they also don't get the end of contact bonus.

Even on high level and damage ATs it turns those annoying long fights into even more annoyingly longer fights (such as the Master Illusionist or the revamped Council bosses that have two health pools due to forced rez/werewolf pop). It doesn't make them any more difficult. It just makes them take longer.

Again, I ask... Why? Why is this change being done? If you do enough damage, the change may as well not exist meaning it is an utterly pointless change, but if you don't do enough damage it takes already sluggish mob clears and pulls them through a sieve made of molasses. It is a targeted hurt to those already having the worst go of it. I do not understand this change.

All I can figure is this is yet another attempt to nerf Fire Farms and/or power leveling in general by significantly slowing down boss and EB clears from a single player as they're the only ones likely to have a health pool big enough for the regen change to make a noticeable difference to a farm build (high damage AT or powerset combination-the least affected by the change already). But at what cost? At some point you have to think about the rest of the game, the players that don't actively pursue that stuff, and how changes affect that as well.

The other thing I can think of is psionic often has a -regen aspect to it, and the -regen was overdone in psionic armor. So, rather than adjust psionic armor, the entirety of the player base is being hit with this change. If this is why, and you don't want to adjust psionic armor, keep the -regen debuff resistance boosts, get rid of the 5% regen every 12 seconds.

Edited June 3 by Dragotect

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Dragotect said:

If you do enough damage, the change may as well not exist meaning it is an utterly pointless change, but if you don't do enough damage it takes already sluggish mob clears and pulls them through a sieve made of molasses. It is a targeted hurt to those already having the worst go of it. I do not understand this change.

 

+1

[twozerofoxtrot]

Unfocused Feedback for this overall Open Beta deployment process.
 

---

On 6/1/2025 at 2:33 AM, arcane said:

3rd build in 4 days! At this rate I feel like I need to be ready for launch by this next Tuesday.

The pace of updates on both fixing bugs and adjusting powers is really rapid. I didn't check to verify but "it feels" like this his the highest rate of builds I've seen in an open beta, this early in deployment.
 

---

The Design Notes are fabulous, thank you!! I can't say this enough.

I know this forum community has asked for more transparency and rationale be provided with changes, and whether or not we individually agree with the reasoning isn't as important as actually knowing, outside of the CBT testers who personally dialogue with our devs, where the logic and scope of power changes are coming from.

This also marks in my view a further maturation of the Dev team, who is providing information with their changes in a format that is consistent with most major game devs out there managing live service games.
 

---

In the same vein, thank you to the devs (and GMs!) who have contributed to the Focused Feedback threads. Especially @Faultline and @Cobalt Arachne.

I'm not sure if you guys drew straws on this or what, but it's not lost on me that the two of you constitute something of the old guard and new guard in providing answers in the threads, (within your respective domains of expertise). 

[Jacke]

I believe boosting the Regen of mobs was to make -Regen Powers the Players already have more useful.  The Regen of most mobs are still just about the same as Players, 0 to 100% HP in 2 minutes.  This is all a balancing act.  Both Damage and -Regen will contribute to overwhelming mobs.

 

The best thing to do here if you have the time is to actually test and report when some ATs and Powersets struggle against which Enemy Groups.  These issues will be addressed.

 

 

Edited June 3 by Jacke

[Unrecognized]

On 5/30/2025 at 11:07 AM, The Curator said:

Armor Sets > Self heals (all)

• Self heal click powers no longer are irresistible
• Following heals will ignore Heal Resistances:
  •  Regeneration > Second Wind
  •  Invulnerability > Dull Pain
  •  Ice Armor > Hoarfrost
  •  Empathy > Absorb Pain
  •  Pain Domination > Share Pain
• The following armored AT Heal Resistance caps have been lowered to:
  •  Tanker: 75%
  •  Brute: 75%
  •  Scrapper: 85%
  •  Stalker: 85%
  •  Sentinel: 90%
  • All other ATs remain at 100%that were floating above the ground and not working correctly.

 

 

I posted about it recently in the feedback thread, but I hope this gets looked at again; the changes has me worried it nerfs Kheldian Dwarfs since the heal being debuffed would make them weaker as a tank stand-in. 

Kheldians need some kind of AT Heal Resistance cap at the very least, like between tank and scrapper levels. 

Also, since the dull pains that ignore it are max HP increases, why isn't Stone Armor's Earth's Embrace still ignore heal resistances since it also increases max HP? Would make sense to me.

[Wavicle]

3 minutes ago, Unrecognized said:

Also, since the dull pains that ignore it are max HP increases, why isn't Stone Armor's Earth's Embrace still ignore heal resistances since it also increases max HP? Would make sense to me.

EE has a much shorter cooldown than the other self heals in question.

 

 Agree that Kheldians and Arachnos need the heal resist caps. And PBs and Crabs should have unresistable +HP heals.

Edited June 3 by Wavicle

[Captain Powerhouse]

Hello everyone.

 

Wanted to drop a quick note on the regeneration changes. 

 

These changes are in average of negligible impact. On a level 50 minion, this increases average regeneration rate by 1.795 HP per second. On a boss regeneration goes up from 5.59 HP per second to 10.7.

 

Neither of these will shift a fight on either direction. What this change does, and is intended to do, is enable content designers to use regeneration buffs as a durability stat on critters instead of just slapping resistances to everything. It simply gives them one more tool to work with.

 

An example that was found thanks to players testing these changes are Arachnoid enemy units. A minion has a 800% regen buff. With these changes, the regen buff can be lowered to 200% for a similar net effect. It also allows content designers to create critters that can more easily share the same power.

 

There are always chances that some other units have extremely high regeneration buffs, and that is why we are testing this: so those can be located and addressed.

 

As of today, we have a beefy report to go through but there is still a chance some units may be missing, so keep your eyes for anything you see that is regenerating unnaturally fast.

 

There is a very high chance this wont make it in page 2, or at least not on the initial rollout, as the number of critters that already need adjusting is higher than the mission content team feels comfortably tweaking on a short notice. So, unless you love running farms where you give your critters instant healing, you not have to worry about these changes from a farming point of view.

[TygerDarkstorm]

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Hello everyone.

 

Wanted to drop a quick note on the regeneration changes. 

 

These changes are in average of negligible impact. On a level 50 minion, this increases average regeneration rate by 1.795 HP per second. On a boss regeneration goes up from 5.59 HP per second to 10.7.

 

Neither of these will shift a fight on either direction. What this change does, and is intended to do, is enable content designers to use regeneration buffs as a durability stat on critters instead of just slapping resistances to everything. It simply gives them one more tool to work with.

 

An example that was found thanks to players testing these changes are Arachnoid enemy units. A minion has a 800% regen buff. With these changes, the regen buff can be lowered to 200% for a similar net effect. It also allows content designers to create critters that can more easily share the same power.

 

There are always chances that some other units have extremely high regeneration buffs, and that is why we are testing this: so those can be located and addressed.

 

As of today, we have a beefy report to go through but there is still a chance some units may be missing, so keep your eyes for anything you see that is regenerating unnaturally fast.

 

There is a very high chance this wont make it in page 2, or at least not on the initial rollout, as the number of critters that already need adjusting is higher than the mission content team feels comfortably tweaking on a short notice. So, unless you love running farms where you give your critters instant healing, you not have to worry about these changes from a farming point of view.

These changes might not be impactful at level 50, but the vast majority of the game is not played at level 50. Most of the game happens while leveling, and these changes are noticeable and hurt casual players, people using SO's/common IOs, and certain AT/powerset combos unproportionally. As of my last round of beta testing, my Plant/Marine Controller at level 20 took the same amount of time to kill even leveled Council mobs as my Elec/Sonic Controller did (also at level 20) to kill +1 mobs. I need to go test a wider variety of AT's/Powersets, but I'm time limited.

 

I understand the change from a dev point of view, but it's not feeling fun as a player, especially a sub-50 non-twinked player. I shouldn't have to get the START attacks just to make sure I can out-damage mob regen and beating on a mob for a longer period of time doesn't make the gameplay more fun.

[Riverdusk]

29 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

 

There is a very high chance this wont make it in page 2, or at least not on the initial rollout, as the number of critters that already need adjusting is higher than the mission content team feels comfortably tweaking on a short notice. So, unless you love running farms where you give your critters instant healing, you not have to worry about these changes from a farming point of view.

 

Thanks for finally explaining it.

 

However, my issue isn't with a "farming point of view" which I do not care about.  I don't farm.   I care about it that it hurts low and slow damage AT's like controllers (and perhaps defenders).   When one of your only few single target damage options is a single target immobilize (something like entangle for plant control) that does low damage and takes 9 seconds to actually do that damage, a boss going from 5.59 to 10.7 per second has a significant effect. 

 

Testing: Set to level 40 a plant controller on test spamming entangle could barely even dent a boss' hp bar, even when they were lower level than me.  I tried both a crey boss and a rikti mentalist.  On live in same situation it was still slow, but I made definitely more noticeable progress.   I guess I could try to time both of them to be more exact, but that will take a while, a long while.

 

Numbers: Specifically for entangle it does 6.11 damage every 2 seconds for 9 seconds.  Even with containment and fully slotted for damage that is then 23.8 damage every 2 seconds, or about 11.9 damage per second.  11.9-10.7= a whopping 1.2 damage per second after their regen.  A level 50 boss has 2,570 hps.  It would take at least 30 minutes for a controller with a fully slotted entangle to beat one boss now using just that.  I realize they will have other powers and you can stack it a bit, but when it comes to a lot of controllers, honestly there aren't a lot of other options. That is also before you even take into account the damage resistance that a lot of bosses have.

 

Controller chillblain, shadowy binds, stone prison, electric fence, ring of fire, and crush are all similar,   Illusion, mind, arsenal, and symphony all appear to have more instant damage options.  Not that it won't still hurt them as well.

 

It just even more forces controllers such as plant to take arcane bolt and/or to slot up their hold with damage procs instead of hold enhancements to be able to actually damage a boss at any kind of reasonable rate.  It is now noticeably slower.

 

You just made low damage AT's even more poor. 

 

Some Possible Solutions:

 

I'd suggest single target immobilizes for controllers (of all sets that have the slow versions) have their damage sped up dramatically, maybe even changed to instant, to help.  It taking 9 seconds for the damage to actually tic is no longer feasible with the increased regen rates. 

 

Controllers/defenders may also need some minor -regen debuff added to one or more of their control/attack powers (say something like 25% to 50%, (most of which would be resisted by an AV so it would not affect them in any real way).  Something that is available for every mob.   Not all support sets have -regen or have long enough recharges on them that they are always available.  It'd also be a nice way to make controllers maybe more valuable on teams, just a little bit.

 

 

[Vanden]

33 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

Testing: Set to level 40 a plant controller on test spamming entangle could barely even dent a boss' hp bar, even when they were lower level than me.  I tried both a crey boss and a rikti mentalist.  On live in same situation it was still slow, but I made definitely more noticeable progress.   I guess I could try to time both of them to be more exact, but that will take a while, a long while.

 

So am I missing something here? What does this test prove? No one is trying to solo a boss at level 40 with only their t1 attack. If it's not possible any more, that doesn't mean anything, because it wasn't a thing that happened to begin with.

[csr]

49 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

Numbers: Specifically for entangle it does 6.11 damage every 2 seconds for 9 seconds.  Even with containment and fully slotted for damage that is then 23.8 damage every 2 seconds, or about 11.9 damage per second.  11.9-10.7= a whopping 1.2 damage per second after their regen.  A level 50 boss has 2,570 hps.  It would take at least 30 minutes for a controller with a fully slotted entangle to beat one boss now using just that.  I realize they will have other powers and you can stack it a bit, but when it comes to a lot of controllers, honestly there aren't a lot of other options. That is also before you even take into account the damage resistance that a lot of bosses have.

 

This is the case where you sit and do nothing - not even recasting Entangle when it recharges - for up to 7.7s while one cast of Entangle does its damage.

[Riverdusk]

7 minutes ago, Vanden said:

 

So am I missing something here? What does this test prove? No one is trying to solo a boss at level 40 with only their t1 attack. If it's not possible any more, that doesn't mean anything, because it wasn't a thing that happened to begin with.

 

Maybe not only the t1 attack, but close to it, yes.  I am trying to solo a level 40 boss with that as my main attack quite often. 

 

What else do a lot of controllers have for single target damage?  As I said, taking a pool power attack?  Okay, but not something I'd say should be a requirement and they aren't exactly great damage either.  Slotting up your single target hold with damage procs? I don't think that should be heavily considered for balance considering they are also likely to nerf procs at some point.  It is what I end up doing most of the time now though because I don't feel I really have another choice beyond being forced to team as a requirement. 

 

Going to higher level options, creepers won't even be doing much if you are down to a single boss or two and therefore a single vine or two.  Some other control sets have it even worse.  The pet at level 26 helps (if you can get that far), and if you can keep it alive and their effectiveness varies. 

 

I also feel forced to depend on temp attacks and controller is the only AT I end up using temps all the way to level 50.  Accuracy and endurance costs can be a big issue though.

 

I take the single target immobilize on controllers as a main attack power often.   It is now noticeably even worse for that role.  That was my point.  If you don't feel it is a useful test then that's fine.  Ignore me.

 

And I hardly think my suggestions were out of line, but others can chime in.  I didn't even ask for a damage buff, just a speeding up of the damage already there, and a -regen debuff that wouldn't even completely counteract the added regen that is proposed (would need to be at the top end of my suggestion, 50%, and that is before level differences or resistances).

 

My suggestions would basically just help controllers EVEN with what is already on live, rather than falling behind.

[Riverdusk]

2 minutes ago, csr said:

 

This is the case where you sit and do nothing - not even recasting Entangle when it recharges - for up to 7.7s while one cast of Entangle does its damage.

 

I mentioned that.  "I realize they will have other powers and you can stack it a bit, "

 

But sure, everyone pick apart my attempt at some testing and ignore the bigger point.