When to go Perma Haste

[Residualshade]

So i have basically lost all knowledge of how to build anything in this game. when is it appropriate for a character to go for perma haste?

[aehamlet]

I don't think you can get perma hasten since ED was implemented...

[Vanden]

You can still get perma-Hasten with global recharge buffs from IOs, but it's kind of just a novelty since the amount you need is actually greater than the boost from Hasten itself.

[n00baka]

It certainly isn't needed to go Perma-Hasten, but if you want to, you still can. I got my Warshade Perma-Haste so I could keep Eclipse up permanently as well, allowing me to keep 85% resistances to all but Psionic all the time. Set IOs can help get you to that point, which means I probably wouldn't worry about getting it until level 47. But that doesn't mean you can't plan what you'll need. Certain Set IOs you'll want to have only come at lower levels (while still providing that sweet sweet recharge bonus), so it might be worth it to find the magical number of recharge you'll need from sets, and figure out what to save up for.

 

Assuming everything is golden, I plan on getting my new Warshade fulling IOd at some point in the distance future, including getting Perma-Hasten. I know I don't need it, but I like the idea of it.

[HelenCarnate]

It all depends on your powerset.  Perma haste is rarely required but nice to have on builds that have a big aoe like Super Strength.  Footstomp every 5-6 seconds gets pretty crazy.

[Magnus_Star]

Is perma-Haste still possible? I believe after ED it was possible to get about a 30-45 second gap between recharges.

[Zolgar]

Is perma-Haste still possible? I believe after ED it was possible to get about a 30-45 second gap between recharges.

 

Global recharge boosts from IOs.

 

It's certainly doable. It requires about 125% global recharge.

 

Wrote this some time ago:

 

Being a number cruncher, I am often asked a question that non-numbers crunchers often think is a simple one “How much recharge do I need to perma *?” The answer, more often than not, overwhelms them, either as sounding like way too much recharge or I give them more information than they want at that moment.

 

The most common power I get asked is Hasten, so it's what I'll use as an example.

 

To perma Hasten you need at least 375% recharge, which will put it down recharging /exactly/ the same time it runs out, so really 380-400% is better. Those numbers may seem way too high to some of you, and that's because while completely accurate they are somewhat high, and I'll explain why in just a moment.

 

It took me a while for a detail on Recharge to click for me, while the game expresses it as percentages, I find it a lot easier to think about it in decimal format: 100% = 1.0, or +70% (from Hasten) is +0.7. This may still not make sense though, it will, fret not!

 

The first thing you need to understand when I say that you need 375% recharge to perma Hasten is that this includes the base recharge of 100% or 1.0. What's the 1.0 mean though?!

 

Every second a power is recharging is worth 1.0 seconds. Now, we add Hasten for +0.7, bringing us to every second a power recharges being worth 1.7 seconds. See where I'm going with this? In order to perma Hasten, you need every second it's recharging to be worth 3.75 seconds (or more, preferably).

 

So, we start our build, throwing all the purple sets we can get, all the Luck of the Gambler procs, etc. Even then though, it seems that the target of +2.05 recharge seems.. out there, and it is. We don't need all that recharge to be global!

 

Recharge totals also include any recharge in the power. So, if assume 2-slotted Hasten with level 50 IOs we get 83.32% recharge in Hasten, bringing our total recharge (while Hasten is active) to 2.53, now it's seeming more reasonable, at now looking for another +122% recharge which we can get from global bonuses or furthering the slotting of Hasten.

 

Such as by adding a 3rd slot with another 50 IO, bringing our recharge in Hasten to +99.08%, or adding another 16% recharge! Yes, that's an entire slot for only 16% recharge, Worth it? In some builds, certainly. There's also enhancement boosters though. If we drop Hasten back to 2 slots, but change those enhancers to 50+5s, we get a total recharge of +95.9%. “But Zolgar, what if I 3 slot with 50+5s?” Well, due to the rules of diminishing returns, the benefit gets completely hosed. If you slot it with 3 50+5 IOs you're going to get +103.85%. I mean, that sounds pretty good, +8% more recharge! Let's see what that really means though.

 

That means that every second Hasten is recharging is worth 0.08 seconds more. We're going to do some recharge time comparisons here, without assuming any bonuses other than Hasten itself.

 

Hasten has a 450 second recharge time normally, and a 120 second run time. So, we know we're not going to be perma yet, which means as I do the math I need to count the first 120 seconds as .7 seconds more than the remainder.

 

2 50 IOs: 120 seconds at *2.5332 remainder at *1.8332. Total recharge time: 199 seconds

2 50+5s: 120 seconds at *2.659 and the remainder at *1.959. Total recharge time: 186 seconds

3 50s: 120 seconds at *2.6909 and remainder at *1.9909. Total recharge time: 183 seconds

3 50+5s: 120 second at *2.7385 and remainder at *20385. Total recharge time: 179 seconds

 

As you can see each does have a notable decrease in recharge time, though one that will become smaller and smaller as you increase your global recharge times (or if you toss in Agility or Spiritual Alpha). At a global bonus of +50%, the difference between 2 50s and 3 50+5s drops to 12 seconds, but more notable the difference between 2 and 3 50+5s drops to 4 seconds.

 

Is it worth that 3rd slot? Well, if you're going to put the 3rd slot in you may as well go all the way and +5 it, but I /personally/ don't see the 3rd slot worth it for the benefit it offers, unless I'm rolling in slots. Your mileage may vary, I just provide the numbers.

 

So, the next time you want to know how much recharge you need to perma something, it's as simple as this:

recharge time/duration(in seconds)-1.

 

Ex: Domination. Recharges in 200 seconds, duration is 90 seconds. 200/90=2.222-1=1.222 Or, you need +123% global recharge to hit Permadom (has to be global since you can't slot Domination)

 

It's also worth noting that the maximum total recharge is 500% (where every second is worth 5). This does mean if recharge/5 is greater than the duration of the power, permaing it is impossible, period.

 

I am also a recharge whore, so I try to permahaste all my chars. >.>

[SirCowdog]

 

I am also a recharge whore, so I try to permahaste all my chars. >.>

 

Thanks for posting that. So much theorycrafting got lost from the official forums, it's hard to track down number crunching info dumps anymore.

[Zolgar]

 

I am also a recharge whore, so I try to permahaste all my chars. >.>

 

Thanks for posting that. So much theorycrafting got lost from the official forums, it's hard to track down number crunching info dumps anymore.

 

Want the other half, where I go in to detail on how to calculate recharge with variable sources, such as chance for +recharge procs, non-perma powers, or Ageless Destiny? >.>

[Murcielago]

This build has perma hasten, keeps Soul Drain to near permanent. It was pretty wicked in its day.

 

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[Harlequin565]

Depends on the character.

 

My Empath had tons of it. Fortitude recharged in 13 seconds, which meant I could keep it on an entire team of 7 reliably. Perma Adrenalin Boost.

The big auras ended up with a 15 second downtime. Long story short - she turned any team invincible on her own. And that's without using a single heal.

Accolade powers like Geas also recharged duper fast.

Because recharge was so fast, she could chain TK blast and Will Domination on her own. The other (lower damage) attack powers could be left out of the build.

 

Hasten was perma with a single recharge IO.

Link to old guide, notes and other rubbish: https://web.archive.org/web/20120904011100/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=123106

 

 

[Tankshock]

Almost all of my high end toons had perma-hasten.  There is certainly diminishing returns on tricking out a toon, but it's a noticeable difference.  Masterminds probably need it least, but Doms obviously benefit.  I'd say perma-Dom puts them above all other support AT's.

 

Is there anyone who actually enjoys getting stunned?  ;)

[Nightmarer]

I'd say perma Hasten is always helpful. Usually, my only chars who do not take Hasten at all are Dark power ones (it's a concept thing for me) and the ones who don't need perma Hasten for me are the ones with mez protection clicky (Super Reflexes and Shield). It's certainly doable with expensive IO builds and Incarnate Alpha Slot, either Spiritual Core Paragon or sometimes also with Agility Core Paragon, depending on the global recharge you get from IO's. 

[HelenCarnate]

Is perma-Haste still possible? I believe after ED it was possible to get about a 30-45 second gap between recharges.

 

It was very difficult and costly (with both money and slots) before incarnate powers.  Agility Paragon got my SS/Fire farming brute to under 110 seconds for haste recharge (single slotted) meaning my rotation was Footstomp, fireball, burn with KO blow thrown in sometimes with bosses.

[_NOPE_]

With having enough active powers at my disposal by about level 18, I never saw the point of perma-haste. The only reason why I can imagine someone would want to do that, is to only keep spamming one or two slower-recharging powers continuously...

[n00baka]

I went Perma-Hasten with my one character because it lowered the recharge of a couple key powers to a permanent up time. Eclipse, Sunless Mire, and the Dark Nova / Black Dwarf attack chains. With I25’s change to the Kheldian form powers, I probably won’t need Hasten to make the attack chains work, but I’ll still get it (eventually) so the other long recharging buff powers are always up. Other than that one character, I rarely get Hasten at all. It’s great for boss fights, but often not something I need.

 

Probably going to get it for my Titanic Weapon Brute though. That feels like a valuable use.

[Rylas]

The only reason why I can imagine someone would want to do that, is to only keep spamming one or two slower-recharging powers continuously...

 

Not necessarily so. Look at Super Strength. As a set alone, it's AoE damage output isn't phenomenal, making it mostly a single target monster. Throw in perma-hasten and now you're reducing larger mob sizes while making use of the single target damage for bosses. That requires more than just spamming a couple of powers. Another good example would be sets that have end recovery powers but also have a high rate of end consumption. Because long recharge powers benefit more from high recharge numbers, a player can keep using all their attacks more frequently, while recovering the end cost at an even fast rate.

 

Better players go beyond single-power spam play.

 

when is it appropriate for a character to go for perma haste?

 

When you and your character have sat down and talked about all the responsibilities of taking things to the next step, then it's appropriate.

[Adeon Hawkwood]

The only character I ever built for perma-haste was my Crab-Spider. Perma-haste there let me have my Disruptor Bots and Blaster Bot up permanently (and replace my Spiderlings more often if they died) which was a lot of fun.

 

Personally I only found perma-haste interesting if it let me get a long recharge power to permanent but that was more a case of personal preference than anything else. In general perma-hasten is useful if you're either getting a powerful ability permanent (perma-eclipse Warshades are a good example) or closing up your attack chain.

 

The thing to keep in mind is that Hasten itself gives a 70% recharge bonus but requires about a 125% global recharge bonus from IOs so hasten itself is only about one-third of the benefit of perma-hasten, the rest of the benefit comes form the things you are doing to enable perma-hasten. Personally most of my characters ran with about 40%-60% global recharge from sets which required much less use of slots allowing more room for other useful set bonuses (mostly defense) and was sufficient for most of my characters.

 

As an example, two purple sets and four LotGs will get you 50% global recharge and can easily fit into most builds with minimal changes. Most characters can easily include two purple sets (one in a single target attack, one in an AoE). For the LotG's I tended to take Combat Jumping and Leadership on most of my characters anyway (since I liked them) which gave me places to put three of the LotGs and most characters can fit one more LotG somewhere in their Primary/Secondary/Ancillary sets (even Blasters have the option to take a defense power in their Ancillary pool).

[Zolgar]

With having enough active powers at my disposal by about level 18, I never saw the point of perma-haste. The only reason why I can imagine someone would want to do that, is to only keep spamming one or two slower-recharging powers continuously...

 

Permadom

Multi-stacking clicky mez powers.

Perma-ing other long recharge clickies (Dull Pain style powers for example)

Perma-ing team buffs like World of Pain

Making sure you have debuff powers back for every fight.

Getting your best powers back as fast as possible, to not have to rely on lower damage powers to round out an attack chain.

Making sure rez (self or ally) powers are back as often as you need them.

 

Shall I go on for reasons permahaste is a very valuable thing no matter what you're playing?

[_NOPE_]

Ah, so primarily for min/maxing purposes then. Disregard me, I choose a different playstyle, and that's fine. Nothing wrong with that, I'll shut up now.

[macskull]

I think the only two characters I ever explicitly built for perma-Hasten were my Fire/Psi Dominator and my Warshade. First one was for permadom (this was before the Dominator changes but even after it was nice) and second one was for perma Eclipse, because running around with capped damage and capped resistance to everything and just spamming AoEs is pretty damn awesome.

[Seraph]

I don't think you can get perma hasten since ED was implemented...

 

IOs were introduced to counter ED so you could get numbers to bypass somewhat. Although, it's not really optimal since you're putting a lot of investment into it.

[Dareon Kale]

Perma-Hasten makes /regen highly entertaining, but it's also a very click heavy way to play which might not appeal to some tastes.

[Zordicron]

Back in those old days, haste was a common choice for many of my characters, but not usually slotted. it was sort of a special occasion ramp up for difficult mobs, boss fights, etc.

 

However, I did build one character specifically to utilize luck of the gambler IO's, but also a few other quirks of the powersets, and it resulted in a crazy play experience that was very potent to boot.

That build was a Katana/Super Reflexes Scrapper.

Obviously, the LotG IO's had plenty of places to go in that build. But I also used run speed IO's, slotted out things most people wouldn't like quickness and powers from the fitness poole(swiftness I think it was called) and yes, even sprint.

The build came into it's own at around level 36-40. That is when the last key slots I needed came up, mostly for the top tier katana attack but also a few others.

 

Why was this build so odd? I could sprint faster then base Fly speed. By significant margin. Triple slotted Fly was slightly faster then my character could run with only Sprint turned on.

my cooldowns were so extreme I could chain the top two attacks with only one low level attack in between the first activation, then two inbetween the second. The one attack did knockup, which added mitigation. When I had access to the required slots at high 30's level range, I was able to completely drop the "filler" attacks, which opened the door for the slots and power choices for the stamina I needed and the mental run speed.

 

Of course, the character was done up like a ninja. The build played so alien compared to a traditional katana/SR scrapper it felt like a different class. It played different from every other character I had. That was, IMO, the brilliance of IO's, if you planned out the build well you could tweak powersets to do things they could not otherwise do.

 

Permahaste of course, is a part of that equation- it allows powersets to do things they could not otherwise do, and can allow for alterations of the build. For some it is worth the grinding/time investment to aquire the required IO's, but a lot of times if your goal is simply solid performance and not out of this world powerset altering recharge, permahaste is simply not worth the effort. In fact, on many builds the extra cooldown will have detrimental effects on stamina usage and the short burst of higher performance will get washed out by the extra downtime.

In short, permahaste needs to be a goal of a well planned out build, otherwise it will not meet expectations.

[Impact]

I left the game before IO's and sets appeared, but I'm back and very curious how to achieve perma-haste with them.  My main used to be an Inv/SS tanker, but I've rerolled him to a SS/Inv brute.  What sets and powers (besides Hasten itself, obviously) should I be looking for?

 

Thanks in advance!  And if anyone has a relevant complete build, I'd be appreciative.