Pylon Damage Thread

[SlimPickens]

On 8/24/2019 at 8:37 AM, MunkiLord said:

Ice/Fire Blaster

 

2:09  for 425 DPS, hit this number three times in a row

 

T4 Assault Core Hybrid

T4 Musculature Core Alpha

T4 Degenerative Core Flawless Interface

T3 Cryonic Total Core Judgement

T3 Ageless Partial Core Invocation

 

Chain used was Bitter Ice Blast - Freeze Ray - Fire Sword, with Blizzard thrown in when it was ready. Hot Feet and Cauterizing Aura toggled on.

 

Do yall think Burn would help or hurt the time?

Burn helps. big time. Dan Petro posted his ice/fire run using burn early in the thread. he got 1:23 or something like that I believe. Ive gotten some 1.5 min runs on my own ice/fire so i know theres room for improvement on my own runs, but generally I use burn on cooldown.

Edited August 27, 2019 by SlimPickens

[MunkiLord]

That means I have a lot of room for improvement! This is excellent news. 

[Tsuko]

On 8/19/2019 at 9:29 PM, Auroxis said:

OK, so I made the above character on Justin and tested it out. Worked out better than I expected:

 

Radiation Melee/Bio Armor Scrapper

 

T4 Musculature Radial Paragon

T4 Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface

T4 Ageless Core Epiphany

 

Hybrid Off:

1:48
1:47
2:11
2:17
1:55

 

Peaked at 1:47, 486 DPS

 

Hybrid On:

1:25
1:40
1:27
1:52
1:48

 

Peaked at 1:25, 579 DPS

 

So, yeah. Rad Melee's pretty good, Moonbeam is pretty good, and procs are pretty good. Nice thing about Rad Melee is that it offers great AoE as well, I suspect this character could farm quite nicely.

Nice time 🙂

 

I was wondering how you calculate the dps cause i end to 451,15 dps for a 1 minute 25 time using the formula on the first page.

[Auroxis]

I use this one:

 

On 5/29/2019 at 5:42 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

Found the original Pylon thread and the equation used in the first post is: ( 38343.75 / time ) + 127.8125 = DPS

Using my 504 seconds, 203.9 DPS.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20120906191553/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=130754

 

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

51 minutes ago, Tsuko said:

Nice time 🙂

 

I was wondering how you calculate the dps cause i end to 451,15 dps for a 1 minute 25 time using the formula on the first page.

 

( 38343.75 / time ) + 127.8125 = is the equation that should be used where time is in seconds.

 

So 1 min 25 sec run is 85 seconds. Total becomes 578.92 or rounding 579.

 

I just got a 2:45 run on my claws/bio using followup, focus, eviscerate and the +heal/-regen power from bio. 360 DPS. Not great compared to what so many others have done.

 

And Auroxis beat me to it.

Edited September 2, 2019 by Bill Z Bubba

[Haijinx]

Radiation looks pretty good.   Wonder what a Rad Stalker time might look like.  

[Auroxis]

Stalker loses out on Irradiated Ground so it should be a downgrade.

[Tsuko]

3 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

( 38343.75 / time ) + 127.8125 = is the equation that should be used where time is in seconds.

 

So 1 min 25 sec run is 85 seconds. Total becomes 578.92 or rounding 579.

 

I just got a 2:45 run on my claws/bio using followup, focus, eviscerate and the +heal/-regen power from bio. 360 DPS. Not great compared to what so many others have done.

 

And Auroxis beat me to it.

The idea is that you fight a Rikti Pylon in RWZ and time how long it takes you to defeat it.  You then plug the time into the equation below to get you raw DPS.

 

((HP+(Regen*Time))/Time)/(1-Resistance) = Raw DPS

 

The numbers I have in my archives for the pylons are below, though I would appreciate some secondary confirmation that they are still accurate.

HP=30677.15

Regen=102.26 HP/s

Resistance=20%

 

Final equation would be:

((30677.15+(102.26*Time))/Time)/(1-0.20))

 

Post your AT, power sets, time, and DPS number below.

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 hours ago, Tsuko said:

The idea is that you fight a Rikti Pylon in RWZ and time how long it takes you to defeat it.  You then plug the time into the equation below to get you raw DPS.

 

((HP+(Regen*Time))/Time)/(1-Resistance) = Raw DPS

 

The numbers I have in my archives for the pylons are below, though I would appreciate some secondary confirmation that they are still accurate.

HP=30677.15

Regen=102.26 HP/s

Resistance=20%

 

Final equation would be:

((30677.15+(102.26*Time))/Time)/(1-0.20))

 

Post your AT, power sets, time, and DPS number below.

 

The shorter equation is just a reworked version of the one you have from the original thread. The difference is probably a rounding thing in the shorter equation.

 

Using 165 seconds as Time for both:

((30677.15+(102.26*165))/165)/(1-0.20)) = 360.22765

 

( 38343.75/165 )+127.8125 =  360.19886

 

Yea, something is amiss.

 

((30677.15+(102.26*Time))/Time)/(1-0.20)) = X

(30677.15+(102.26*Time))/Time = .8X

30677.15+(102.26*Time) = .8X*Time

30677.15/Time+102.26 = .8X

38346.4375/Time + 127.825 = X

 

As I like a good mystery, grabbed the Power Anaylzer temp power and took a look at the pylons.

Base HP verified at 30677.15

Regen verified at 102.26 HP/sec

Damage resistance verified 20% to all.

 

That's funny. Looks like the old reworked one was wrong at least from the post I copied it from. Perhaps it was corrected later on in the thread. Granted, not by much, but accuracy rules!

Using new reworked equation of 38346.4375/165 + 127.825 = 360.22765 which matches original equation.

[Tsuko]

7 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

The shorter equation is just a reworked version of the one you have from the original thread. The difference is probably a rounding thing in the shorter equation.

 

Using 165 seconds as Time for both:

((30677.15+(102.26*165))/165)/(1-0.20)) = 360.22765

 

( 38343.75/165 )+127.8125 =  360.19886

 

Yea, something is amiss.

 

((30677.15+(102.26*Time))/Time)/(1-0.20)) = X

(30677.15+(102.26*Time))/Time = .8X

30677.15+(102.26*Time) = .8X*Time

30677.15/Time+102.26 = .8X

38346.4375/Time + 127.825 = X

 

As I like a good mystery, grabbed the Power Anaylzer temp power and took a look at the pylons.

Base HP verified at 30677.15

Regen verified at 102.26 HP/sec

Damage resistance verified 20% to all.

 

That's funny. Looks like the old reworked one was wrong at least from the post I copied it from. Perhaps it was corrected later on in the thread. Granted, not by much, but accuracy rules!

Using new reworked equation of 38346.4375/165 + 127.825 = 360.22765 which matches original equation.

So half of the dps posted are "unaccurate" to stay "polite" 😛

 

to simplify, time and Assault or not click is the best way to have an idea, i think 🙂

[Tsuko]

On 8/15/2019 at 7:16 PM, Tsuko said:

Hi all, i just want to thank you all for this thread.

 

Sadly i did my TW bio scrapper before i found this thread :x

 

I ll just share my +5 build, in case it could help someone.

 

it's a nice 1m20 average on rikti pylon with the "classic" @Kaeladin ST rotation but Built with a full aoe rotation for thrash clearing.

 

I tank for my team both Apex and Tin mage 2 with no major issues.

 

Thank you again, guys, for all those hours of testings !

 

PS : sorry for my old and rusty english 🙂

 

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Tsuko +5, test 5 go live: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Titan Weapons
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Crushing Blow -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(5), AchHee-ResDeb%(7)
Level 1: Hardened Carapace -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), UnbGrd-Max HP%(7), UnbGrd-ResDam(9), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(9), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(11)
Level 2: Inexhaustible -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 4: Environmental Modification -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(15), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(15), Ksm-ToHit+(17), Rct-ResDam%(17)
Level 6: Follow Through -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Hct-Acc/Rchg(19), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(21), Hct-Dam%(21), FrcFdb-Rechg%(23)
Level 8: Build Momentum -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(23), GssSynFr--ToHit(25), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(25), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(27), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(37)
Level 10: Adaptation 
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(29)
Level 14: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 16: Ablative Carapace -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(29), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Prv-Heal/Rchg(31), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(31), Prv-Absorb%(33)
Level 18: Rend Armor -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(34), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(34)
Level 20: Evolving Armor -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 22: Titan Sweep -- Obl-%Dam(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Obl-Dmg(36), Obl-Acc/Rchg(36), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(37), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 24: Confront -- PrfZng-Acc/Rchg(A)
Level 26: Whirling Smash -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Arm-Acc/Rchg(39), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Arm-Dam%(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 28: DNA Siphon -- SprScrStr-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SprScrStr-Rchg/+Crit(42), Heal-I(42), Heal-I(42)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(43), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 32: Arc of Destruction -- SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCrtStr-Dmg/Rchg(45), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprCrtStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprCrtStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprCrtStr-Rchg/+50% Crit(46)
Level 35: Genetic Contamination -- SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprScrStr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprScrStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 38: Kick -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(43), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(48), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 41: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(48)
Level 44: Defensive Sweep -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A)
Level 49: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(50), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(13), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 1: Momentum 
Level 10: Defensive Adaptation 
Level 10: Efficient Adaptation 
Level 10: Offensive Adaptation 
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally 
Level 50: Mighty Radial Final Judgement 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
------------

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1648;798;1596;HEX;|
|78DA65944B4F135114C7EF74A6624B8162290569A5B4604B0B858A2C7CC5A8A889D|
|05828D195A943B9B6136A5B3B95E8D2053B1FBC12BE802F3626FA0DDCFADCBA5001|
|75A1286AA2261AC5F174CE81D6B449F33BF33FF79CFB9FFB98C8A501CBBDE3570E3|
|2A1F6485A56D5782C919773399E3746E4A49260F06B1A552F4E64DDC1FE2E7781AB|
|0577BF3B9975A795495E0549E7C6F87884A7390F8D2A0539133FCDE55C36A37A369|
|303FC1CCFA83C7458C9C64FE693724649C40FE5CF67F3CC1CCD66D3A1588EF3F13A|
|3D1CE2F238CFAB292557A33F1F5392A98292495A36B23978D87134A72442B1829C9|
|E80EE437C52910B29983822AB059EBFDC04CEFAE07FCDC1E8A7195914E03131C330|
|710429C588CB22636113DBF2D0C098CDC45E7A4117A87617E57E017D26B6F53BF10|
|7D2FC93E880029789BD825A016B99B060D06B5F8326A226897641D76A1B8A9458ED|
|A0A8D759D721ED9298F59BA8EB37C0BF91FC1B7DD8679B9FD8896C081083C8C6298|
|3EE651A6AABC87FD522E5EE229B6E126F21B7DF46B6DF412E815713D66A1ED8E66A|
|8C0DD54186E3894EA217C6D4A04F56D386DA0AF4A823EF75EF71FD9C1F903B56891|
|F899F90EE35E42C78AFA7DAFA69097333C45964DB1C719EB822EAFBF606E6B5D1DA|
|DBBA98BE16D7A19F9DFAD919CEE1D5F05DBDBF897F680DD6897F913350EBA077735|
|C406D0E8466EAD7BC07B59D7B89FB88FB91BE03C429E45BF0D7A21F0E4D6A798C5E|
|7C4F909DCF89EDEC3FD6C3FABA680F5C763C33013A3B012B721E3CB592A7D6B3B82|
|65D32718C9840768F1339F21D78F2507FCF23F4D0FD14D9F30C69000F1DD85FECD0|
|EF12CC3D8CEC19418663C84618EBC77E829FCE7A4F03F22AF80CEA174B6341CA893|
|03E447B160AA02681D64B9E7A695C987A84AD48A7B479BF8B4755D358ABB4796BB5|
|4045B6B7420957287D15CAEE0A65A8340B5C14DCD7A84452F1CEEBA34C56563C6BB|
|A973573D917A11B77F54B4933086DB8CA9613827E622DA7F00D3F97D7F9B1EEABB9|
|F2EBB2E428BDF7FDE2EDA57997CBE20765B77AD10365A42FD84AF18BB278154E5F9|
|8C6A73A4BF1A0AD14CBE6E21E631C2D8BCF94C56365F13F92831A43|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

i allow me to quote myself because i finally took the time to edit my 85 seconds rikti pylon.

 

So :

 

Scrapper TW bio (with my build having a full conic rotation for thrash clearing and able to "tank" speedrun tf)

 

85 seconds.

T4 Musculature

T4 Ageless

T4 Reactive

T4 Assault (not click)

 

 

 

[Werner]

Super Strength / Fire / Mu Brute

 

Single target chain - 7:01 for 211 DPS

 

Blazing Aura + Burn -> Haymaker -> Knockout Blow -> Haymaker -> Punch 

 

AoE chain - 43:40 for 142 DPS

 

Blazing Aura + Ball Lightning -> Burn -> Foot Stomp -> Electrifying Fences
 

Only the Pylon and my attacks were used to build Fury. I did not summon my Lore pets.

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1562;723;1446;HEX;|
|78DA6594D94F135114C6EFD029D896520A94964D68CBBE0C5440E31683628D480D0|
|9C437532B5CDB264D69BA24FAE883AFC635BEB880CBAB4FB2B9FC27BEBB206AA2C6|
|15EB99399F74924E427E67CE3DDF3D5B99C8C5C9EAA7272E1F118AE3582A96CB458|
|F660B79698DC4E2C979414FE55C219B94A92A329B8DA36844A6A4D4660B19998DCE|
|E6B3321DCF277C7C34292FC8744E6AE1A4CC5E8A4E14B231F7C97442524C5EFB6F3|
|8661617535A38958C27F24EB67533998EDB8DB7D98C940B2EC39C96B10599CD2592|
|19CFF14C725E43FE423412CBE529838F8A1AA2BF8022F014AD62C92244481515CBE|
|043A6FA087CCCAC7CC25CD16586BE68115F71F68DB9EB3BF883B9AA8772AC55B9AB|
|1A3EFB3DF03EB3FA01B8C4AC5966DA688216E4B17814C357BB4DAF6DAAA8FBC2F78|
|75E57180CD2B115FD58AB595FE76436D4802E66632DE8667691B60ADAAA6BECF35D|
|076F309B6F82B798ADB7996BA4B2A13FDB5BAEA9F51D73F77B7013FCC0ECD862AE9|
|3CA81FE1C5EC5E8ABC307EEE118FF38F7AD50814EAE5138E7F405AA6283E082DE85|
|3DF8B1073FF610C41E2CA47723D68DD820628388EDFCC97C4E51F58ADDC8557F95E|
|7AB92DE03BD07BBE80C43778AD93DC50C50AC976315EF00216413DDA083CE9AD047|
|93B13B9B78416F2D9861CB6FCED7FD87D9B30DFE058BCC3EC1B9DC745F1B72B5A1A|
|EBE0690D08EBDB61F86EE10E7ECDF0F1E000F3207AF70DC39BA3E006DE019EF7A70|
|055C650EAD81EBE01BAEA99E6AEAE29A44D73841B588181DF5E2BEDE7D9C6378947|
|30E8F81E3CCD05E10F7BD24D50066368039BE2268F069A7395E340A3102DF0866D1|
|AAEEFC9F0B81DF4DBFD957A4478C947942659ED132CF589927AC7B9409DD539C369|
|FDAB8E319151F0EF229E8C4562BF45D1A9A2DFBCED74228413EFF54F255287E9E48|
|CD197C0DA6883DAAF868D6F5B2EEB3D97707F9EDFAEF84739D35D931937DDE64FFA|
|289866087BD257BB3B364373594EC7FCF5AF8A4|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

[Sir Myshkin]

13 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

That's funny. Looks like the old reworked one was wrong at least from the post I copied it from. Perhaps it was corrected later on in the thread. Granted, not by much, but accuracy rules!

Using new reworked equation of 38346.4375/165 + 127.825 = 360.22765 which matches original equation.

I went and pulled this from the original archived thread:

"Both numbers are adjusted by the 20% resistance of the pylon. A pylon actually has 30675 hit points and regenerates 30675 * 5% / 15 = 102.25 hit points per second. I was removing as many terms as possible from the formula. " per @Werner (yes, I just summoned you). Underlined for reference two key values.

 

That was from 2009, so if an alteration occurred to the Pylon between then and now, I didn't dig deep enough to see if a corrective formula was posted. Given the variance is so dramatically small, I doubt its worth splitting hairs over at this point. Especially considering most of us just round off anything in the decimal field anyway so those .1-.3 variances were never being accounted for half the time.

 

22 hours ago, Tsuko said:

I was wondering how you calculate the dps cause i end to 451,15 dps for a 1 minute 25 time using the formula on the first page.

The formula from the first page still gives 578.9595588235294 DPS versus the composite formula of 578.9154411764706

 

Then confirming with Bill'z corrected composite formula: 578.9595588235294

 

Interesting how one small math error resulted in the realization that the composite formula the majority of us had been using was off by a marginal percentage in the decimal point this entire time.

 

[Haijinx]

Lol its less than 0.1 dps at 500+  think its more than good enough.  

[Werner]

6 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

I went and pulled this from the original archived thread:

"Both numbers are adjusted by the 20% resistance of the pylon. A pylon actually has 30675 hit points and regenerates 30675 * 5% / 15 = 102.25 hit points per second. I was removing as many terms as possible from the formula. " per @Werner (yes, I just summoned you). Underlined for reference two key values.

 

That was from 2009, so if an alteration occurred to the Pylon between then and now, I didn't dig deep enough to see if a corrective formula was posted. Given the variance is so dramatically small, I doubt its worth splitting hairs over at this point. Especially considering most of us just round off anything in the decimal field anyway so those .1-.3 variances were never being accounted for half the time.

I don't know where the 30675 hit point number came from, and the key values are really the hit points and the regeneration rate. 30677.15 * 5% / 15 = 102.257166..., which is probably rounded off to 102.26 on the power analyzer. And yes, a 2.15 hit point difference on the pylon is meaningless compared to the variability of other factors, such as the differences in time to defeat that we see on repeated test runs.

 

But there's another aspect of the formula and even the power analyzer that I suspect is a simplification that was probably good enough when dealing with builds with 200 DPS, but would lead to inaccuracy on builds with 600 DPS. I suspect what the 5% / 15 is telling us is that it's healing 5% of its base health every 15 seconds, which is something we should check. If so, and given the short times being posted, we'd probably want to amend the formula further to take that into account rather than pretending that we get a tick of health every second. And for that matter, and I'm not sure how we'd verify this, it might be that the ticks of health are actually happening every 15.048 or 15.18 seconds - I'd need to refresh my memory on Arcanatime and whether or not and how it might apply to pylon regeneration. I'd want to test it rather than theorize, but I don't know how to test those tiny fraction of a second differences. 

 

For the sake of argument, let's say it's 15.048 seconds, and so pylons actually heal 30677.15 * 5% = 1533.8575 every 15.048 seconds. It's like defeating an enemy with 30677.15 + N * 1533.8575 hit points and no regeneration. And with the 20% damage resistance, it would be like defeating an enemy with 38346.4375 + N * 1917.321875 hit points and no regeneration. N would be the number of times the pylon heals during the run. I don't know when the 15.048-second ticks start. It might be unrelated to when the damage starts, or it might start once the pylon is not at full health. That's something else to test. Let's say it starts when the damage starts. So if we take under 15.048 seconds to destroy it, we did over 38346.4375 damage (extra damage on final attack wasted). Under 30.096 seconds, we did over 40263.759375 damage. And so on. So 38346.4375 + floor(time/15.048) * 1917.321875. That's the damage. Divide by seconds. So then we'd be looking at a formula like this to be more reasonable for these short times to defeat we're seeing now:

 

(floor(time/15.048) * 1917.321875 + 38346.4375) / time = DPS

 

But I'd bet that at least one assumption baked into that formula is false. We'd need to do some testing. It should be very close to the original formula for long defeat times, such as my 43:40 AoE run. That's 2620 seconds, so:

 

(floor(2620/15.048) * 1917.321875 + 38346.4375) / 2620
= (174 * 1917.321875 + 38346.4375) / 2620
= (333614.00625 + 38346.4375) / 2620
= 371960.44375 / 2620
= 142 DPS

 

And that's what I calculated before with the simpler formula. Some fraction off, but not enough to change the rounded number, and I was only checking for reasonableness. But I would expect it to give a slightly different number for a faster time, like Tsuko's 85 seconds.

 

38346.4375/85 + 127.825 = 579 DPS
(floor(85/15.048) * 1917.321875 + 38346.4375) / 85 = 563 DPS

 

Definitely don't start using the "new" formula yet. We need to check the assumptions first, and I suspect change it further based on what we find. But I'm suspicious that we do want a new formula. Of course anything is still going to be inadequate given all the random procs and rounded off seconds and so on.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Werner

[Bill Z Bubba]

Crap. Just caught myself reading forum posts while at work.... just like the old days. I really should hunt down my old forum icon.

[jshmoe1236123]

I finally decided to get me a hold of one of them fancy tw/bio scrappers and boy I'm glad I did.  This thing is a ton of fun and the damage is insane.  I'm close to getting T4 on all the incarnates I want for this toon.  I'm in a good spot and did a pylon test and the results below:

 

Titan Weapons/Bio Scrapper - Courageous Girl

T4 Musculature

T3 Assault Total Core

T3 Degenerative Total Core

T3 Ageless Partial Core

 

Time: 1:20

 

I ran this a few times and it hovered between 1:20 and 1:25 depending on my Momentum and any misses.  1:20 was my best time.

[Shred Monkey]

I just came back so I am a ways from doing endgame stunts myself, but....

 

I think we need to rethink the test a bit.   If we are getting times in the 90 second range, that means the Pylon is only getting 5 or 6 ticks of health... The problem is this, there is a significant difference between 5 ticks and 6 ticks.  If you start just after a tick, you will get a significantly different time then if you start just before a tick.  Back when we took 4 minutes per fight, this didn't matter so much.

 

And yes, it is good to be back.

[Werner]

 

1 hour ago, Shred Monkey said:

I just came back so I am a ways from doing endgame stunts myself, but....

 

I think we need to rethink the test a bit.   If we are getting times in the 90 second range, that means the Pylon is only getting 5 or 6 ticks of health... The problem is this, there is a significant difference between 5 ticks and 6 ticks.  If you start just after a tick, you will get a significantly different time then if you start just before a tick.  Back when we took 4 minutes per fight, this didn't matter so much.

 

And yes, it is good to be back.

My thinking is that if the ticks are predictable, such as the first tick always being 15 seconds after you start doing damage, then we can still calculate with reasonable accuracy with a formula like the one I showed. But the ticks might occur at regular intervals having nothing to do with when you start doing damage. Then we’re maybe back to calculating an average, and those numbers get bigger error bars the shorter the times get.

 

Good to see you!

Edited September 3, 2019 by Werner

[Shred Monkey]

2 hours ago, Werner said:

 

My thinking is that if the ticks are predictable, such as the first tick always being 15 seconds after you start doing damage, then we can still calculate with reasonable accuracy with a formula like the one I showed. But the ticks might occur at regular intervals having nothing to do with when you start doing damage. Then we’re maybe back to calculating an average, and those numbers get bigger error bars the shorter the times get.

 

Good to see you!

I would expect it to be unrelated to when we start doing damage.... though if my theory is correct, you can just hit the thing once, and wait until the tick heals it, to start your run.  This will will essentially allow you to start at the best possible time.

 

 

[Frosticus]

reasonably confident it ticks away irrespective of what you are doing. I noticed some big variance in my demon/storm times from 48 sec up to 1 min without much explanation as it was happening on clean runs and it is a relatively low proc build. That is a massive swing in dps - like nearly 200dps.

 

There is a lot going on with that many summons and there could be another explanation of course. 

[Werner]

1 hour ago, Shred Monkey said:

I would expect it to be unrelated to when we start doing damage.... though if my theory is correct, you can just hit the thing once, and wait until the tick heals it, to start your run.  This will will essentially allow you to start at the best possible time.

I suspect you're right about the ticks, easily checked, but your approach works either way. The formula I showed assumed that you started at the best possible time.

 

I'd want to know the exact timing of the ticks if it isn't 15, and I'm suspicious that it isn't 15 exactly, but some multiple of 0.132 like it would be for a player. I'm not sure why Pylons would be using a different clock, or a different way of judging when a power had recharged.

[Sovera]

I don't even feel that there is a need for a DPS number or equation. The time it takes to kill a pylon *is* the 'DPS'. Knowing a build did 287 or 600 DPS doesn't add much than knowing one build took four minutes to kill a pylon and the other did it in 90 seconds.

 

5 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

I just came back so I am a ways from doing endgame stunts myself, but....

 

I think we need to rethink the test a bit.   If we are getting times in the 90 second range, that means the Pylon is only getting 5 or 6 ticks of health... The problem is this, there is a significant difference between 5 ticks and 6 ticks.  If you start just after a tick, you will get a significantly different time then if you start just before a tick.  Back when we took 4 minutes per fight, this didn't matter so much.

 

And yes, it is good to be back.

As for that it's why the recommendation is doing about four or five tries and post them all.

[Werner]

45 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I don't even feel that there is a need for a DPS number or equation. The time it takes to kill a pylon *is* the 'DPS'. Knowing a build did 287 or 600 DPS doesn't add much than knowing one build took four minutes to kill a pylon and the other did it in 90 seconds.

I'm almost with you. Some people are posting times without converting, so we seem to be headed that direction. And since we're questioning the right formula, that pushes us further in that direction as well. Times seem less ambiguous, and multiple runs tell us where we might expect our average time to lie. And that's fine if we're just interested in comparative data, just who is faster.

 

But to me at least, this was never a competition, perhaps because I'd so clearly lose. 😉 I've always just wanted to know my DPS. Knowing that I do 210 DPS single target and 140 DPS AoE gives me a better idea how I'll perform in game than knowing how long it takes me to drop a pylon.

 

(Edit: Another point in favor of converting to DPS is that it's a simple linear scale. Times are not. Half the time is not even twice the damage output. I suppose we have similar issues when discussing survivability, though. With survivability, converting to DPS makes for a nice linear scale, but reducing survivability to a single number is... complicated and inaccurate.)

Edited September 3, 2019 by Werner

[Sir Myshkin]

1 hour ago, Werner said:

(Edit: Another point in favor of converting to DPS is that it's a simple linear scale. Times are not. Half the time is not even twice the damage output. I suppose we have similar issues when discussing survivability, though. With survivability, converting to DPS makes for a nice linear scale, but reducing survivability to a single number is... complicated and inaccurate.)

Should I dust off the old Survival Spreadsheet? I’m sure I have that Excel file around here somewhere...

 

I will say that lately I’ve been contemplating a more realistic approach of popping into Oroborous and picking through specific AVs to not only give a more significant value to the challenge of taking down an AV level target, but better quantifying how a Pylon Time translates to a practical fight. 

 

Basically doing both the Pylon Run, and then picking a fight with an actual AV and comparing.

 

It’s been a while since I’ve messed with AE, but curious if it wouldn’t be possible to make one with all the Praetorians tossed in to hand pick them out of a single mission for testing.